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Asking for ID for cash purchase of precious metal


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This week a friend of mine went into the Jewellery Quarter in Birmingham. He went to a bullion dealer/ jeweller and saw some silver rounds/bars and decided to buy a bit - it came to just over £100 - he paid cash. They wanted his ID - a driver's licence.
i took a look at Atkinsons - they do not mention cash in payment methods.
I looked at Chards @LawrenceChard - they mention cash but say you must show photo ID and there is a charge for paying cash.

How long has this been the case?
Is there a minimum or do all cash transactions come with the ID requirement?
So i took a look at H Samuel, Ernest Jones and a few other jewellers - no option to pay cash. 

Edited by sixgun

Always cast your vote - Spoil your ballot slip. Put 'Spoilt Ballot - I do not consent.' These votes are counted. If you do not do this you are consenting to the tyranny. None of them are fit for purpose. 
A tyranny relies on propaganda and force. Once the propaganda fails all that's left is force.

COVID-19 is a cover story for the collapsing economy. Green Energy isn't Green and it isn't Renewable.

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11 minutes ago, sixgun said:

This week a friend of mine went into the Jewellery Quarter in Birmingham. He went to a bullion dealer/ jeweller and saw some silver rounds/bars and decided to buy a bit - it came to just over £100 - he paid cash. They wanted his ID - a driver's licence.
i took a look at Atkinsons - they do not mention cash in payment methods.
I looked at Chards @LawrenceChard - they mention cash but say you must show photo ID and there is a charge for paying cash.

How long has this been the case?
Is there a minimum or do all cash transactions come with the ID requirement?
Some i took a look at H Samuel, Ernest Jones and a few other jewellers - no option to pay cash. 

Can you make that easy for me to respond by including a link to the relevant page of our site?

😎

Chards

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3 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

Can you make that easy for me to respond by including a link to the relevant page of our site?

😎

https://www.chards.co.uk/info/terms-of-purchase

Always cast your vote - Spoil your ballot slip. Put 'Spoilt Ballot - I do not consent.' These votes are counted. If you do not do this you are consenting to the tyranny. None of them are fit for purpose. 
A tyranny relies on propaganda and force. Once the propaganda fails all that's left is force.

COVID-19 is a cover story for the collapsing economy. Green Energy isn't Green and it isn't Renewable.

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22 minutes ago, sixgun said:

This week a friend of mine went into the Jewellery Quarter in Birmingham. He went to a bullion dealer/ jeweller and saw some silver rounds/bars and decided to buy a bit - it came to just over £100 - he paid cash. They wanted his ID - a driver's licence.
i took a look at Atkinsons - they do not mention cash in payment methods.
I looked at Chards @LawrenceChard - they mention cash but say you must show photo ID and there is a charge for paying cash.

How long has this been the case?
Is there a minimum or do all cash transactions come with the ID requirement?
So i took a look at H Samuel, Ernest Jones and a few other jewellers - no option to pay cash. 

10 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

Can you make that easy for me to respond by including a link to the relevant page of our site?

😎

6 minutes ago, sixgun said:

That page is about us buying from the general public, not customers buying from us.

It also does not say "there is a charge for paying cash", but "Payment in cash may be subject to a fee"

 

Terms of Purchase
This page sets out the legal terms and conditions (the Terms) which apply when we purchase from you any gold, silver, platinum, palladium, brass, copper or other precious metal or base metal goods (including UK coins, bars and medallions) or jewellery products or any other similar goods you wish to sell to us and which we are interested in purchasing (Goods).

...

6. Payment
6.1 You may elect to receive payment for the Goods: (i) by bank transfer or CHAPS transfer to the bank account specified by you in writing; (ii) by cheque addressed to you; or (iii) in cash. These payment methods are subject to the following Terms:

(a) We may in our sole discretion decline to make payment by CHAPS without reason;

(b) Payment by CHAPS will incur a £20 fee which shall be deducted from the Price;

(c) If you request payment in cash, you must provide photographic personal identification notwithstanding the price payable for the Goods and attend the Showroom in person to receive the cash on such date and time directed by us; and

(d) Payment in cash may be subject to a fee, in our sole discretion, which shall be a percentage of the Price.

6.2 Regardless of the payment method requested by you, if the Price is over £5,000, we will require you to provide certain identification information. You can do this on our Website, via the telephone or in person in our Showroom during opening hours. This information we may require includes your full name and address, company name (if applicable), proof of address, email address, telephone number and date of birth. Further details are set out on our Website here. We are required to obtain this information to comply with our legal obligations (including those relating to anti-money laundering), to protect against fraud and to reduce credit risk. We may also use this information to contact you concerning your Contract from time to time.

 

The ID when we are buying is partly to avoid buying stolen goods, and there are legal requirements to consider.

We do not require ID for purchases from us, whether in cash or otherwise, except for "Investment Gold" where we are required to comply with relevant legal requirements.

Although, under anti-money laundering regulations, all high value traders are under additional obligations to record cash transactions where a running total in any 12 month period may exceed £10,000.

The legal sting in the tale here is "may", because at the time of first purchase, how does anybody know?

For this reason, and others, most high value dealers err on the side of caution. No business wants to be investigated by HMRC or the FCA, and certainly none wants to risk being fined 10% of their annual turnover.

I am sure many smaller dealers will happily ignore much of this.

😎

Chards

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26 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

That page is about us buying from the general public, not customers buying from us.

My mistake - i read the menu item 'Terms of purchase' as being customers purchasing metal: 

So all purchases of investment gold paid for in cash require photo ID. 
By investment gold you refer to gold of more than 995 purity -

or 

(b) a gold coin minted after 1800 that is:

of a purity of not less than 900 thousandths.

(or has been) legal tender in its country of origin.

of a description of coin that is normally sold at a price that does not exceed 180 per cent of the open market value of the gold contained in the coin.

Well that is pretty much all the gold coins you will sell.

If i were to bowl up with £9999 and as my only purchase from Chards that year i could buy silver to that amount without providing ID.

Potentially a person might come to a shop several times during a year and pay cash - they kept to silver. No ID was required. They just kept coming and could clock up over £10 000 in total purchases b/c no-one recognised them. Would this go under the radar?

Sounds like this roughly £100 cash purchase of silver was a bit OTT. 

Edited by sixgun

Always cast your vote - Spoil your ballot slip. Put 'Spoilt Ballot - I do not consent.' These votes are counted. If you do not do this you are consenting to the tyranny. None of them are fit for purpose. 
A tyranny relies on propaganda and force. Once the propaganda fails all that's left is force.

COVID-19 is a cover story for the collapsing economy. Green Energy isn't Green and it isn't Renewable.

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17 minutes ago, sixgun said:

My mistake - i read the menu item 'Terms of purchase' as being customers purchasing metal: 

So all purchases of investment gold paid for in cash require photo ID. 
By investment gold you refer to gold of more than 995 purity -

or 

(b) a gold coin minted after 1800 that is:

of a purity of not less than 900 thousandths.

(or has been) legal tender in its country of origin.

of a description of coin that is normally sold at a price that does not exceed 180 per cent of the open market value of the gold contained in the coin.

Well that is pretty much all the gold coins you will sell.

If i were to bowl up with £9999 and as my only purchase from Chards that year i could buy silver to that amount without providing ID.

Potentially a person might come to a shop several times during a year and pay cash - they kept to silver. No ID was required. They just kept coming and could clock up over £10 000 in total purchases b/c no-one recognised them. Would this go under the radar?

Sounds like this roughly £100 cash purchase of silver was a bit OTT. 

An easy mistake to make, especially as you were probably scanning quickly for the info.

That's correct about "Investment Gold".

OTT, yes probably, but for any high value dealer, probably sensible to be cautious.

There is no good reason why most jewellers would need to take ID, although if anyone tried to pay large amounts of cash, then AML starts to apply. This would be more likely to affect better quality jewellers rather than high street chains like H. Samuels or Ernest Jones.

I think it would be quite easy for someone to spend in excess of £10,000 per annum in cash in some supermarkets, but there appears to be little pressure on them to comply with AML.

If anyone made single purchase of just under a relevant threshold, such as £9,990 this should trigger a potential suspicious behaviour alert.

Are you aware that all bank employees are obliged to notice possible suspicious patterns, and are legally obliged to report via their internal systems, and would be committing a criminal offence if they alerted the customer to their suspicions?

😎

Chards

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It is happening everywhere.
Even paying in a cheque to a bank might entail the third degree of questioning and proof of ID.
Clamping down on money laundering and that unfortunately affects the majority i.e. innocent people.
I don't see a problem to be honest.
Minor inconvenience to most.

 

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9 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

Are you aware that all bank employees are obliged to notice possible suspicious patterns, and are legally obliged to report via their internal systems, and would be committing a criminal offence if they alerted the customer to their suspicions?

😎

i am aware that the authorities seem to believe all cash is the product of unlawful activities. This is likely projection - the biggest drug dealers on the planet are the alphabet agencies. Crate loads of cash are moved around. It didn't always use to be this way. i remember going to the bank and taking out a Tesco's bag full of cash which i wandered over to this solicitors with as the deposit on my marital home. No-one batted an eyelid at the bank or the solicitors. From memory things changed in the early 1990's. We can probably say that marks the point when things really started going downhill in quite a number of ways.

Edited by sixgun

Always cast your vote - Spoil your ballot slip. Put 'Spoilt Ballot - I do not consent.' These votes are counted. If you do not do this you are consenting to the tyranny. None of them are fit for purpose. 
A tyranny relies on propaganda and force. Once the propaganda fails all that's left is force.

COVID-19 is a cover story for the collapsing economy. Green Energy isn't Green and it isn't Renewable.

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24 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

Are you aware that all bank employees are obliged to notice possible suspicious patterns, and are legally obliged to report via their internal systems, and would be committing a criminal offence if they alerted the customer to their suspicions?

Wonder if I got flagged for requesting 5k cash to take my grandad to the strippers for his 90th 🤔

In £50s because who wants to look like a cheapskate 😏

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1 minute ago, sixgun said:

i am aware that the authorities seem to believe all cash is the product of unlawful activities. This is likely projection - the biggest drug dealers on the planet are the alphabet agencies. Crate loads of cash are moved around. It didn't always used to be this way. i remember going to the bank and taking out a Tesco's bag full of cash which i wandered over the this solicitors with as the deposit on my marital home. No-one batted an eyelid at the bank or the solicitors. From memory things changes in the early 1990's. We can probably say that marks the point when things really started going downhill in quite a number of ways.

The earliest I heard about curbs on cash was by the French, and probably about 20 years ago.

Puchases of luxury items like fur coats and jewellery in cash were severely restricted. I don't know much of the detail, as it did not affect me at the time.

The French do seem to be very prescriptive about sending cash and valuable through the post. 

I remember reading many years ago about soemone (a journalist) who was asked to help a family retrieve a gold bar, pososibly from a Swiss bank, transport it, and possibly sell it. He was stopped by French Douaniers, and held incognito for a considerable time, under Zone Franche laws. Apparently French Customs officers can question, arrest, and intern anybody they like, indefinitely, within 50 kilometres or any inernational border, port or airport. They do not have to notify anyone, and the suspect has few if any rights.

Some time after that, probably in the early 1980s, I was travelling in a Mercedes, with a friend, not far from Geneva, and was stopped by an unmarked car, with pop-up Customs stop lights, and questioned. One of the officers took great interest in a drawing the friend had made of a piece of jewellery. I think we were under suspicion of being jewellery or diamond smugglers.

It was quite eerie to know that it could have gone much further!

😎

3 minutes ago, modofantasma said:

Wonder if I got flagged for requesting 5k cash to take my grandad to the strippers for his 90th 🤔

In £50s because who wants to look like a cheapskate 😏

Quite possibly!

😎

Chards

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51 minutes ago, Pete said:


Clamping down on money laundering and that unfortunately affects the majority i.e. innocent people.

 

I believe it's about tax and control not terrorism and money laundering.

"It might make sense just to get some in case it catches on"  - Satoshi Nakamoto 2009

"Its going to Zero" - Peter Schiff 2013

"$1,000,000,000 by 2050"  - Fidelity 2024

 

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13 minutes ago, ArgentSmith said:

I believe it's about tax and control not terrorism and money laundering.

It is all about tax - it is my belief that elements of the regime orchestrate all the terrorism, so those who want our details are ultimately behind the terrorism

Always cast your vote - Spoil your ballot slip. Put 'Spoilt Ballot - I do not consent.' These votes are counted. If you do not do this you are consenting to the tyranny. None of them are fit for purpose. 
A tyranny relies on propaganda and force. Once the propaganda fails all that's left is force.

COVID-19 is a cover story for the collapsing economy. Green Energy isn't Green and it isn't Renewable.

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31 minutes ago, sixgun said:

It is all about tax - it is my belief that elements of the regime orchestrate all the terrorism, so those who want our details are ultimately behind the terrorism

Agreed. Since tax isn't a voluntary arrangement one must use force, fear and coercion. Otherwise it ain't happening.

"It might make sense just to get some in case it catches on"  - Satoshi Nakamoto 2009

"Its going to Zero" - Peter Schiff 2013

"$1,000,000,000 by 2050"  - Fidelity 2024

 

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8 hours ago, sixgun said:

It didn't always used to be this way. i remember going to the bank and taking out a Tesco's bag full of cash which i wandered over to this solicitors with as the deposit on my marital home. No-one batted an eyelid at the bank or the solicitors. From memory things changed in the early 1990's. We can probably say that marks the point when things really started going downhill in quite a number of ways.

Maybe the decline started earlier, around 1984....

Progress is a myth. Democracy is a sham. Dumbing down is real.
Throw your mobile 'phone in the bin, it will free you!
Turn your TV off, cancel your licence.
USE CASH WHEREVER POSSIBLE.

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