TSF vs Auctions

[Leonmarsh]

Having struggled on the odd occasion moving more Premium coins I sent a coin to auction to test the process 

The Ms60 half guinea sold for 800 plus 26% buyers fees totaling = 1008

As the seller I recieve full hammer price of 800 which is good 

But I struggled to sell on here for 650 for a coin bought for over 1,000 

Just for interest and comparison, love TSF by the way just a topic 

I have an ms62 third guinea which I think is a very for good price but no takers on TSF maybe its the wrong place to list coins like these 

[Orpster]

Maybe just wrong time, there is a lot of auctions recently with multiple unsold lots and realised prices have dropped across the board, proofs, commemorative, graded etc. on every platform

In number of the groups I am in I see the dealers complaining how hard it is to get sales at the moment.  I have pretty much stopped buying anything except the odd bit of bullion, and I think a lot of people are the same.

[CaptCaveMan]

55 minutes ago, Orpster said:

I have pretty much stopped buying anything except the odd bit of bullion, and I think a lot of people are the same.

Apart from trading up to get some (for me) grail proofs, I've been holding fire as well.

[James32]

1 hour ago, Leonmarsh said:

Having struggled on the odd occasion moving more Premium coins I sent a coin to auction to test the process 

The Ms60 half guinea sold for 800 plus 26% buyers fees totaling = 1008

As the seller I recieve full hammer price of 800 which is good 

But I struggled to sell on here for 650 for a coin bought for over 1,000 

Just for interest and comparison, love TSF by the way just a topic 

I have an ms62 third guinea which I think is a very for good price but no takers on TSF maybe its the wrong place to list coins like these 

To be honest, bullion is king followed by special design/year proofs then history follows that.

Most people are on a budget and want the most bang for their buck.

Specialty coins will always attract less numbers and really need the right person at the right time to come along, so Specialty auctions are probably best.

What I will say is you clearly buy what you like and I've seen some fantastic coins from your listings, that I would never be exposed to anywhere else,so whilst I have very little experience in said coins,I can definitely appreciate the history and effort needed to piece together such a collection. 

 

[BullionBob]

My own experience is that keenly priced bullion sells fast on all platforms at all times, which is ideal when needing to raise a little cash. However, most of the numismatic and premium items tend to vary wildly in average selling times and sold prices. I would argue that coin collecting / stacking is one of the best hobbies out there, as unlike most other hobbies you can often recoup most of the funds spent and even make a few quid on a good day. 😀

[ArgentSmith]

Reflecting the wider market I suppose most trades on TSF involve Gold and Silver generally as close to spot as possible. I struggled selling a Krug at less than 1% over spot the other week, might as well take to a dealer TBH. If trying to achieve a premium on something numismatic I would look to eBay or a specialist auctioneer as you did.

In favour of TSF it has no sales fees so you have nothing to lose, seems best option for selling Silver bullion at around spot + 25-40%, not that Im interested in selling silver 😁

[Roy]

I think you've been unlucky here and it's probably because of timing?

You paid 'over £1000' for the coin and so did the new buyer (£1008) so that's the coin's retail value. To achieve that value, the coin would have to go through a retail auction process, where only the auction house is a winner, or you would have to be patient and wait for a buyer to come along.

Dare I say, unless it was bought for the long term stack, you 'bought it wrong'?

Flipping numismatics is tough, coin collectors are a canny lot and know that one will come along at their price eventually.

Sorry for your loss here, but I know you'll recoup it quickly 👍

 

[dicker]

The sales on TSF tend toward the bullion  in a lot of cases - certainly there is a lot of transactional volume in bullion sales.

Auctions attract more numismatic coins and buyers and they often sell well - but not always.

It is a bit of a horses for courses but Insee no reason why the forum could not be a hub for numismatic sales.  I guess the bit that is probably missing to attract the more numismatic coin listings and sales is “impartial” advise that an auction house may add plus transaction handling.

Others my disagree, just my thoughts!

Best

Dicker

[Leonmarsh]

1 hour ago, Roy said:

I think you've been unlucky here and it's probably because of timing?

You paid 'over £1000' for the coin and so did the new buyer (£1008) so that's the coin's retail value. To achieve that value, the coin would have to go through a retail auction process, where only the auction house is a winner, or you would have to be patient and wait for a buyer to come along.

Dare I say, unless it was bought for the long term stack, you 'bought it wrong'?

Flipping numismatics is tough, coin collectors are a canny lot and know that one will come along at their price eventually.

Sorry for your loss here, but I know you'll recoup it quickly 👍

 

Sorry I probably haven't been clear I paid 650 I think for the coin, so was advertising it at what I paid as I managed to get an ms62 and ms64, 

Today the buyer has paid £1,008 I end up with 800 quid, so I have done ok, but someone could have picked it up for 650 I break even and someone gets a good value coin 

[Paul]

8 hours ago, Leonmarsh said:

Having struggled on the odd occasion moving more Premium coins I sent a coin to auction to test the process 

The Ms60 half guinea sold for 800 plus 26% buyers fees totaling = 1008

As the seller I recieve full hammer price of 800 which is good 

But I struggled to sell on here for 650 for a coin bought for over 1,000 

Just for interest and comparison, love TSF by the way just a topic 

I have an ms62 third guinea which I think is a very for good price but no takers on TSF maybe its the wrong place to list coins like these 

Right place and right time.

It always takes two parts to make a deal.

Because something sold for X in the past doesn't mean it is worth X today.

It is worth what someone is prepared to pay today. 

No buyer no deal.

If you NEED to make the deal and need the cash the ball is out of your court and in the buyers 

Premium pieces will sell at a premium price in the right premium sale with the right premium buyers, but end to end may take a few months to execute and sell and be aid

Common Gold bullion here priced at spot or thereabouts  here, you can raise five figures in hours,cos I've done it.

Right place, right time, for the right deal

With your recent lovely listings, someone cash rich currently buy at your very fair prices, stick unsafe deposit for five to ten.years, then consign to a quality auction catalogue. Premium numismatic pieces are a slow burn appreciation % IMO 

I love subjects like this coming up for discussions,no right answer as everyones stack, investment, exposures to risk and reward is different 

But as sure as eggs are eggs, there are new deals to be had and negotiated every day of the year

Edited June 28, 2022 by Paul

[Leonmarsh]

Yeah good discussion chaps was a a bit nervous before someone piped up because your a twat lol thats why they don't sell lol 

[Paul]

13 minutes ago, Leonmarsh said:

Yeah good discussion chaps was a a bit nervous before someone piped up because your a twat lol thats why they don't sell lol 

A little point and giving a little secret away from a guy who has built my core stack gold position in just buying the best deal of the day. But I love it when I see multiple bumps, comments to push a sale, selling this because I've seen X just gives me the urge to offer a price to make a deal as I realise someone is showing signs of needing cash.  My deal is agreed GREAT, I'm under offer goes ignored, it'd no skin off my nose, my fiat stays in the bank and waits for the next deal that'll arrive like a bus , ike the sun rises on here, bookface, feebay 

My best was rejecting a 1oz gold coin and something here, fell down because seller wouldnt budge on including special delivery for bulk buy. No deal,no problem

Following day I got x100 2007 silver Britannias delivered for £1650 on feebay after it was mentioned here. I've made far more selling these 2007s as single coins, than I would have made on the 1oz gold coin

 Deals to be had and made every day

Edited June 28, 2022 by Paul

[SlowFrog]

It's a fair point for coins with numismatic value. Speaking personally, I also mainly go for bullion but I'm also willing to pay a bit of a premium for coins that I just really like (and feel will hold their value).

For the first time, I paid £1300 over spot price for a graded 2oz gold Britannia and the Lion a few months ago due to it being graded a PF70 and having a really low mintage (103). I feel it's a good 'investment piece' and have since buried it in the safety deposit box and will just forget about it for a number of years. Hope it'll be worth more one day but it's obviously way more risky the moment you go way beyond spot. I keep thinking that I'd have gotten close to an extra ounce had I gone for bullion instead. Which will appreciate more - gold or the numismatic value of that piece? No bloody idea but thought I'd take a punt.. 

I guess we're all often juggling gold/silver content versus personal enjoyment and potential numismatic gains. Unless of course you're absolutely loaded..

[Roy]

44 minutes ago, Leonmarsh said:

Today the buyer has paid £1,008 I end up with 800 quid, so I have done ok, but someone could have picked it up for 650 I break even and someone gets a good value coin 

Ah good, no loss with this coin.

The only 'loser' is the latest buyer who, if he'd had a TSF membership, could've saved himself £350+

😎

Edited June 28, 2022 by Roy

[Leonmarsh]

9 minutes ago, Roy said:

Ah good, no loss with this coin.

The only 'loser' is the latest buyer who, if he'd had a TSF membership, could've saved himself £350+

😎

Agreed what makes TSF such an amazing place 

[Mrpound]

Don’t know why I’m commenting as everything said above it spot on guys 👍

[LawrenceChard]

22 hours ago, Leonmarsh said:

Having struggled on the odd occasion moving more Premium coins I sent a coin to auction to test the process 

The Ms60 half guinea sold for 800 plus 26% buyers fees totaling = 1008

As the seller I recieve full hammer price of 800 which is good 

But I struggled to sell on here for 650 for a coin bought for over 1,000 

Just for interest and comparison, love TSF by the way just a topic 

I have an ms62 third guinea which I think is a very for good price but no takers on TSF maybe its the wrong place to list coins like these 

For what it's worth, I have been happy to buy nice looking third and quarter guineas for years, even though they have not been selling well. IMO, they are interesting coins, under-rated, and I don't mind waiting until they become better appreciated.

Time and patience!

😎

[stataman]

Numismatic market much smaller in UK than USA therefore can get quite a large spread in prices. I think you did well getting £800 - researching through past auctions I would have expected around £650. But lets be honest - the auction house did the best collecting 26% fee for someting they don't own! Great business.

Edited June 29, 2022 by stataman

[CollectForFun]

14 hours ago, Leonmarsh said:

Sorry I probably haven't been clear I paid 650 I think for the coin, so was advertising it at what I paid as I managed to get an ms62 and ms64, 

Today the buyer has paid £1,008 I end up with 800 quid, so I have done ok, but someone could have picked it up for 650 I break even and someone gets a good value coin 

Man, I don't know... assuming it was you who bought it at Sincona auction?

[LawrenceChard]

29 minutes ago, stataman said:

Numismatic market much smaller in UK than USA therefore can get quite a large spread in prices. I think you did well getting £800 - researching through past auctions I would have expected around £650. But lets be honest - the auction house did the best collecting 26% fee for someting they don't own! Great business.

... and that was one of the more competitive auction houses, not charging a seller's commission, some collect about 15% to 20% from both seller and buyer, plus VAT, and sometimes additional charges such as insurance, photography.

One of "our" competitors, Coincraft often advertises that they will pay more than stuff sells for at auction.

I understand Richard Lobel's (Coincraft) frustration that some people blindly think an auction is the best way to get top price when selling, and others think auctions are the best way to buy. Can they both be right?

Coincraft only do numismatic stuff, not bullion, but I see bullion sovereigns and Krugerrands in auctions. Madness!

I am not criticisng the OP here.

[Leonmarsh]

27 minutes ago, CollectForFun said:

Man, I don't know... assuming it was you who bought it at Sincona auction?

No it wasn't me at sincona it went for 800 or 850 plus fees at sincona I bought it after that 

Thanks for the Input chaps 

[jultorsk]

32 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

One of "our" competitors, Coincraft often advertises that they will pay more than stuff sells for at auction.

I understand Richard Lobel's (Coincraft) frustration that some people blindly think an auction is the best way to get top price when selling, and others think auctions are the best way to buy. Can they both be right?

Coincraft only do numismatic stuff, not bullion, but I see bullion sovereigns and Krugerrands in auctions. Madness!

I enjoy reading the occasionally very witty and observant commentary on CoinCraft's newsletter 'The Phoenix' whenever I visit London. IMO he's correct in saying selling in an auction is taking a risk, even with graded coins. Yesterday some mint state graded sovs went for 290 hammer price (that's what the seller gets in hand). 

Appropos sharing the interesting interview of Mr Lobel here again as I think it's a good read. http://news.coinupdate.com/is-it-time-to-re-think-the-secondary-coin-market/

[Leonmarsh]

You can set a fixed reserve in my case it was set at 700, I paid 650 so I was always going to be ok

However they cant be set stupid I. E 1,000 as the auction house wouldn't have taken it 

[LawrenceChard]

30 minutes ago, jultorsk said:

I enjoy reading the occasionally very witty and observant commentary on CoinCraft's newsletter 'The Phoenix' whenever I visit London. IMO he's correct in saying selling in an auction is taking a risk, even with graded coins. Yesterday some mint state graded sovs went for 290 hammer price (that's what the seller gets in hand). 

Appropos sharing the interesting interview of Mr Lobel here again as I think it's a good read. http://news.coinupdate.com/is-it-time-to-re-think-the-secondary-coin-market/

I agree with most of what he says.

I do remember seeing the interview at the time, and seeing:

"RL: I’m proud to say that we’re the only large-scale firm in the UK that is still family-owned and family-run. "

... and thinking "I ought to have words about that!"

😎

[Petra]

Plenty of auction houses, use one that will set whatever reserve you want… it is your stuff!