How Not to Invest / Collect / Stack Proof Gold and Other Coins

[LawrenceChard]

How Not to Invest / Collect / Stack Proof Gold and Other Coins

There is much discussion on TSF on what to buy for investment, how to store it, and so forth, with many members giving their differing opinions and advice.

Sometimes we see glaring examples of how not to invest, and how not to handle coins. This was a very recent case:

2022 Gold Proof "70" Platinum Jubilee 50 Pence with Fingerprints - Reverse

This actually looks worse to the naked eye, and there are some small scratches.

2022 Gold Proof "70" Platinum Jubilee 50 Pence with Fingerprints - Reverse Entire Coin

2022 Gold Proof "70" Platinum Jubilee 50 Pence with Fingerprints - Obverse

2022 Gold Proof "70" Platinum Jubilee 50 Pence with Fingerprints - Obverse Entire Coin

A customer bought this quite recently from @ChardsCoinandBullionDealer, but took it out of the capsule, put fingerprints all over it, and a few small scratches.

She sent it back saying she would like to sell it. We had to break some bad news to her.

Should we be including an info sheet with every proof coin advising people to avoid handling it, and how not to wreck it?

If so, might this insult some people's intelligent, and how do we word it to avoid causing offence, while helping buyers with friendly and useful advice?

I am aware we may be able to remove most or all of the fingerprints, but it requires time and skill, not to mention the risk of causing more damage despite taking great care.

😎

[James32]

Keep it short and sweet I say!

"Touch a proof and the value goes POOF"

[TheShinyStuff]

I wish I was in a position to be laying out a grand or so on something that I obviously knew nothing about. 

Fools and their money...

As regards customer info - buyer beware. Does a car salesman feel obliged to point out that if you wrap your new car round a tree you will detract from its value?

[SilverJacks]

In  fairness the RM cert will have said to avoid handling the coin, at least it usually does. Can't speak for everyone but it wouldn't bother me to see basic advise for a newcomer on any product.

[FourNinesFine]

I agree with @SilverJacks, some basic advice would just feel like enhanced service to me and that the dealer was treating me with a duty of care, rather than just as a simple transaction.

To date, I've only ever purchased bullion grade coins so I can't speak to proofs. But as a novice to stacking / collecting, I was very surprised at just how quickly my thumbprint was fully transposed across ol' Lizzie's head when I fondled one of my first ever Britannias.

'Fools'? Maybe. But if you don't know, you just don't know.

I'd welcome a little 'handle with care' cheat sheet.

 

FNF.

[Arganto]

6 minutes ago, SilverJacks said:

In  fairness the RM cert will have said to avoid handling the coin

This is the case with silver proof £1 coins, the only 'as minted' proof coins I own. I'm sure the RM advice says something like "proof coins should not be handled as doing so can damage the finish", I would add "and negatively affect it's value" to get the message home if you were looking to include an info card yourself @LawrenceChard.

What mad bugger buys a premium gold proof coin then fondles it to the extent that it looks like it's been in circulation for a year? The lady in question must not be shy of a few quid and possibly has questionable judgement. May I have her phone number...? 😜

 

[LawrenceChard]

3 hours ago, TheShinyStuff said:

I wish I was in a position to be laying out a grand or so on something that I obviously knew nothing about. 

Fools and their money...

As regards customer info - buyer beware. Does a car salesman feel obliged to point out that if you wrap your new car round a tree you will detract from its value?

 Some performance and specialist car marques do offer / or insist on the new owner doing a course, which makes sense.

😎

[TheShinyStuff]

3 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

 Some performance and specialist car marques do offer / or insist on the new owner doing a course, which makes sense.

😎

Wouldn't know. That's not the car market I shop in...

[LawrenceChard]

2 hours ago, Arganto said:

This is the case with silver proof £1 coins, the only 'as minted' proof coins I own. I'm sure the RM advice says something like "proof coins should not be handled as doing so can damage the finish", I would add "and negatively affect it's value" to get the message home if you were looking to include an info card yourself @LawrenceChard.

What mad bugger buys a premium gold proof coin then fondles it to the extent that it looks like it's been in circulation for a year? The lady in question must not be shy of a few quid and possibly has questionable judgement. May I have her phone number...? 😜

 

Sure, what's it worth?

😎

[TheShinyStuff]

1 minute ago, LawrenceChard said:

Sure, what's it worth?

😎

Before or after she fondled it?

[LawrenceChard]

Just now, TheShinyStuff said:

Before or after she fondled it?

Are we still talking about the coin?

😎

[TheShinyStuff]

7 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

Are we still talking about the coin?

😎

If you like!

[Arganto]

2 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

Sure, what's it worth?

Tell her I've got a bunch of things she can get her fingerprints on and I'll even cook her a steak afterward. I reckon that must be worth a pint and a bag of chips, I'll even get the Brasso out and polish those 50p coins for you! Bargain 🙃

[Pete]

I love the look of FDC gold proofs especially the quintuple sovereign but when it it time to sell be prepared for a big disappointment.
Dealers will list these stunning coins, coin sets and boxed proofs at high premiums but they are selling and you can easily get suckered into buying as I did once, believing the premium will be retained.
Some sought after key date coins retain decent premiums but from personal experience all the others are only worth bullion prices when you decide to part with them. I am sure some sellers will argue but there will always be exceptions but when I sold most of FDC proofs, I struggled to get spot and that's when spot was over 20% lower than today, so a big mistake selling - according to Dr. Hindsight.

[Scootermuppet]

On 22/06/2022 at 16:08, LawrenceChard said:

 Some performance and specialist car marques do offer / or insist on the new owner doing a course, which makes sense.

😎

So, will we see a 'How to care for your Gold Proof Coins' course in the near future @LawrenceChard ? 🤔

Visions of a small classroom scenario, with you at the Front Shouting "Don't touch the bloody things!" while a harassed group of Proof Coin Newbies copy out "I must not fondle my Proofs" 1000 times from the blackboard 🤭

[Bigmarc]

Almost everything I own now has an alloy in it and is old. I think I might be a medical anomaly that omits a greasy odour. I remember almost getting my hand slapped for not picking up a coin from around the edges at my first coin fair. 

[LawrenceChard]

18 hours ago, Pete said:

I love the look of FDC gold proofs especially the quintuple sovereign but when it it time to sell be prepared for a big disappointment.
Dealers will list these stunning coins, coin sets and boxed proofs at high premiums but they are selling and you can easily get suckered into buying as I did once, believing the premium will be retained.
Some sought after key date coins retain decent premiums but from personal experience all the others are only worth bullion prices when you decide to part with them. I am sure some sellers will argue but there will always be exceptions but when I sold most of FDC proofs, I struggled to get spot and that's when spot was over 20% lower than today, so a big mistake selling - according to Dr. Hindsight.

I agree that there are an awful lot of dealers who hype almost everything.

Most of these are what I call "Coin Marketing Companies", and others are "retailers" or "distributors", as opposed to real dealers who actively buy as well as sell. Real, traditional style dealers mainly have more shared experience and empathy with collectors.

You should not have needed to "struggle to get spot". You should also have been able to expect to get better prices from your original supplier than from most others. The CMC's generally don't buy, and of course this also includes the Royal Mint.

There are very few UK proof issues for which we would bid below spot. I can't say the same for some other "countries", especially like "TDC" etc, which the CMCs seem to love to sell (but not buy).

😎

 

[LawrenceChard]

50 minutes ago, Scootermuppet said:

So, will we see a 'How to care for your Gold Proof Coins' course in the near future @LawrenceChard ? 🤔

Visions of a small classroom scenario, with you at the Front Shouting "Don't touch the bloody things!" while a harassed group of Proof Coin Newbies copy out "I must not fondle my Proofs" 1000 times from the blackboard 🤭

They sound like good suggestions to me!

😎

32 minutes ago, Bigmarc said:

Almost everything I own now has an alloy in it and is old. I think I might be a medical anomaly that omits a greasy odour. I remember almost getting my hand slapped for not picking up a coin from around the edges at my first coin fair. 

Were you ever allowed into a second one?

😎

[dicker]

I wonder if HMQ looked better before the fingering incident. 
 

Best

Dicker

[bluffer]

without going into specifics - although you can if you want - roughly what % drop was it?

[flyingveepixie]

Silly girl !   

I can just see the scenario : package arrives from @ChardsCoinandBullionDealer.  Girl opens it, sees coin, exclaims "oh how lovely",  and promptly removes coin from capsule to get a better look...tsk🥴

  My wife did exactly the same thing the first time I handed her a proof coin in a capsule.  Fortunately it wasn't a gold coin but a relatively low value silver £1.00 🙄

A pleasantly phrased idiots guide in the form of a little printed note with a headline in bold along the lines of   "caring for your new proof coin"   added in to the envelope would add a nice extra touch to high value transactions such as this, and people do appreciate such things. 

You could even personalise it !   "Dear (insert customers name)" ,  Thank you for your purchase etc etc....

My missus sells little bits of artwork on Etsy from time to time and takes great care in the packaging and addition of little personalised thank you notes and such like, and the reviews she receives are always gushing.

Might be worth a thought...

Edited June 25, 2022 by flyingveepixie

[stefffana]

On 22/06/2022 at 11:50, LawrenceChard said:

How Not to Invest / Collect / Stack Proof Gold and Other Coins

There is much discussion on TSF on what to buy for investment, how to store it, and so forth, with many members giving their differing opinions and advice.

Sometimes we see glaring examples of how not to invest, and how not to handle coins. This was a very recent case:

2022 Gold Proof "70" Platinum Jubilee 50 Pence with Fingerprints - Reverse

This actually looks worse to the naked eye, and there are some small scratches.

2022 Gold Proof "70" Platinum Jubilee 50 Pence with Fingerprints - Reverse Entire Coin

2022 Gold Proof "70" Platinum Jubilee 50 Pence with Fingerprints - Obverse

2022 Gold Proof "70" Platinum Jubilee 50 Pence with Fingerprints - Obverse Entire Coin

A customer bought this quite recently from @ChardsCoinandBullionDealer, but took it out of the capsule, put fingerprints all over it, and a few small scratches.

She sent it back saying she would like to sell it. We had to break some bad news to her.

Should we be including an info sheet with every proof coin advising people to avoid handling it, and how not to wreck it?

If so, might this insult some people's intelligent, and how do we word it to avoid causing offence, while helping buyers with friendly and useful advice?

I am aware we may be able to remove most or all of the fingerprints, but it requires time and skill, not to mention the risk of causing more damage despite taking great care.

😎

Yes, an info sheet will be very helpful. Nobody will be insulted by a friendly advice.

Any product should have instructions of use. 

If this lady would read that will lose automatically minimum 1/3rd from the value she paid if will open the capsule and touch the coin, I am sure that she wouldn't do that.

She is very familiar probably with gold jewellery, where taking out from box and touching is absolutely normal.

 

 

[LawrenceChard]

17 hours ago, bluffer said:

without going into specifics - although you can if you want - roughly what % drop was it?

If you were asking me, it's no secret.

RM original price was £1095, so we were probably priced at about £1050, although I would need to check.

Gold Weight Troy Ounces    0.456 

Spot gold price £1489

https://www.chards.co.uk/gold-price/gold-spot-price

Intrinsic gold is worth 0.456 x £1489 = about £679, so maybe £700?

😎

[Prophecy]

When I saw those pictures I thought that it was another quality control issue from RM. 

[Ted1945]

On 23/06/2022 at 00:02, Pete said:

I love the look of FDC gold proofs especially the quintuple sovereign but when it it time to sell be prepared for a big disappointment.
Dealers will list these stunning coins, coin sets and boxed proofs at high premiums but they are selling and you can easily get suckered into buying as I did once, believing the premium will be retained.
Some sought after key date coins retain decent premiums but from personal experience all the others are only worth bullion prices when you decide to part with them. I am sure some sellers will argue but there will always be exceptions but when I sold most of FDC proofs, I struggled to get spot and that's when spot was over 20% lower than today, so a big mistake selling - according to Dr. Hindsight.

Thanks Pete, a cautionary message that got my attention as a Rookie who has bought a few proof sovereign with the  intention of leaving them to relatives. I am sure once they get their hands on them ,  and I will need a copy of LC's Handling guide for them😬), they'll try and flog them.  I have,  pre TSF membership and any clue, acquired from dealers (wince now I know about premiums and have trailed the  archives) some of the QE2 reverse designs coins.     The enthused part of me wants to get a 1989 and 2017 to complete my set, but from yours and other posts I have read I wonder if my strategy should be tweaked in favour of BU versions?    I think the 1989 and 2017 designs look amazing, but now feel twitchy about the whole premium / resale conundrum.   I agree with you the sets look awesome.   Selfishly I'd get a great deal of pleasure from owning an '89 and '17  and hopefully for years to come.   I would very much value any opinions, comments or tips.

Ted.