Gold under weight ( advice please )

[DanielIrwin1987]

Hi thanks for looking

I received an order from a very well know online retailer, they sent me 3 x 1gram combi bars, 2 are fine but the other weighs in at 0.98 gram. I have never received a 1gram bar under 1gram before ( same scales ), so tried all different ways and "tare" multiple times ( even moving the scales to a different surface )

I contacted the retailer via phone call, who just advised me that it was my scales at fault and they check and don't send out items under weight, so I took a video which I sent them and now waiting for a reply email.

Does this sound about right? I have never had any other items under weight before, be it copper, silver, gold, everything else weighs bang on or a tiny bit over 

My scales are fit for purpose and the first thing I do when ordering anything is open and weigh, and this is the first to be a problem.  ( the only thing I can think of is taking it to a pawn broker and seeing if they can double check the weight if that's a thing? )

 

Thanks in advance for any advice 

[James32]

Is it a single gram that has come of a combi bar??

Some pics may help

[Arganto]

What scales are they? When did you calibrate them last? Are they precision scales from a known company or a budget item? Budget scales are often a hundredth or two out, sometimes not even measuring entirely consistently. If it was a sovereign or 1/4oz you probably would just shrug, it seems much worse when it's the same discrepancy against a single gram. For the record I use a budget set and calibrate them fairly regularly; even so they sometimes read a couple of hundredths out.

I would be surprised if a dealer would supply a fake, but it does happen. Is the bar the exact same dimensions as the other two? Do you have a Vernier caliper?

 

Edited January 21, 2022 by Liam84

[paulmerton]

A complete 100g combibar is normally intentionally overweight by about a gram to ensure that each of the 100 individual pieces weighs at least a gram when it's broken up.

Even so, it doesn't seem impossible for a single piece to fall slightly under weight if all of its neighbours won more than their fair share of the bendy boundary during the separation process.

On the other hand, how sure are you about the weight? It's very tempting to believe a measured weight is true and correct just because it appears on a digital display of something you own, but unless you have calibrated them I wouldn't trust them to be accurate, and I can understand why a seller might not want to trust them either.

I have a super-cheap set of digital scales that reads down to 0.001g (up to a max of 50g) and it comes with a 50g calibration weight. Of course, I have to trust the calibration weight actually weighs 50g for this to be of any use, but it does weigh exactly the same as another 50g calibration weight I have, so I have a reasonable amount of faith in it 

Is it bullion by post? I'm sure they'll (or whoever else it might be will) respond to the video appropriately anyway. If not, you could demonstrate weighing something of a known weight, or simply the other two pieces as a comparison. Even a scale that doesn't read accurately is generally still useful for showing something is relatively heavier than something else.

[CollectForFun]

As others mentioned above, it's likely due to the scales imprecision, or natural imperfection of breaking down the combibar. Just out of curiosity, the other 2 pieces are precisely 1 g according to your scales, or something above?

[DanielIrwin1987]

3 hours ago, CollectForFun said:

As others mentioned above, it's likely due to the scales imprecision, or natural imperfection of breaking down the combibar. Just out of curiosity, the other 2 pieces are precisely 1 g according to your scales, or something above?

Hi the 3 bars read as 101, 100, and 0.98 gram, the video i sent them shows me weighing all 3, 1 at a time, and showing in ozt, I don't think its the scales at fault as I have never had a under reading before, I have 21 other 1 gram bars in silver plus gold and all read 1 gram or just over, which is the concern, I know I'm worrying over a 0.02gram but its still abit hmm lol. Also I have x amount of Brits, all weighing bang on ( on the same scales ) have a backyard bullion, silver 1ozt which is stamped at x weight and the scales match that perfectly 🤔 

[DanielIrwin1987]

16 hours ago, James32 said:

Is it a single gram that has come of a combi bar??

Some pics may help

Will pop some pictures up this evening 🙂 unfortunately can't post the video as its got my address and order number but can make another 👍

[DanielIrwin1987]

14 hours ago, Liam84 said:

What scales are they? When did you calibrate them last? Are they precision scales from a known company or a budget item? Budget scales are often a hundredth or two out, sometimes not even measuring entirely consistently. If it was a sovereign or 1/4oz you probably would just shrug, it seems much worse when it's the same discrepancy against a single gram. For the record I use a budget set and calibrate them fairly regularly; even so they sometimes read a couple of hundredths out.

I would be surprised if a dealer would supply a fake, but it does happen. Is the bar the exact same dimensions as the other two? Do you have a Vernier caliper?

 

Will post some pics up this evening and yep have some digital calipers so will also check, ( didn't think todo that before so thank you ) 

[James32]

1 minute ago, DanielIrwin1987 said:

Will pop some pictures up this evening 🙂 unfortunately can't post the video as its got my address and order number but can make another 👍

No problem 😊 

[DanielIrwin1987]

10 hours ago, paulmerton said:

A complete 100g combibar is normally intentionally overweight by about a gram to ensure that each of the 100 individual pieces weighs at least a gram when it's broken up.

Even so, it doesn't seem impossible for a single piece to fall slightly under weight if all of its neighbours won more than their fair share of the bendy boundary during the separation process.

On the other hand, how sure are you about the weight? It's very tempting to believe a measured weight is true and correct just because it appears on a digital display of something you own, but unless you have calibrated them I wouldn't trust them to be accurate, and I can understand why a seller might not want to trust them either.

I have a super-cheap set of digital scales that reads down to 0.001g (up to a max of 50g) and it comes with a 50g calibration weight. Of course, I have to trust the calibration weight actually weighs 50g for this to be of any use, but it does weigh exactly the same as another 50g calibration weight I have, so I have a reasonable amount of faith in it 

Is it bullion by post? I'm sure they'll (or whoever else it might be will) respond to the video appropriately anyway. If not, you could demonstrate weighing something of a known weight, or simply the other two pieces as a comparison. Even a scale that doesn't read accurately is generally still useful for showing something is relatively heavier than something else.

Fully agree, yep its a few peices from a larger combi bar ( Best by new ) which is what I wanted to complete a 24 holder case. I am most probably being over anal, but seemed odd to have never received anything " under weight" then this one does. Don't have a calibration weight, but I do have x amount of brits and they all come out as should, plus a backyard bullion item which is stamped with a weight and the scales match that weight also. Thanks for the reply will pop up some pics and a video this evening to try and show my confusion 🙂

[James32]

1 minute ago, DanielIrwin1987 said:

Fully agree, yep its a few peices from a larger combi bar ( Best by new ) which is what I wanted to complete a 24 holder case. I am most probably being over anal, but seemed odd to have never received anything " under weight" then this one does. Don't have a calibration weight, but I do have x amount of brits and they all come out as should, plus a backyard bullion item which is stamped with a weight and the scales match that weight also. Thanks for the reply will pop up some pics and a video this evening to try and show my confusion 🙂

I think it's as simple as you got one slightly under weight and someone got an overweight one.

If all 3 are weighing 3gs together then you're golden 🙂

[Arganto]

1 hour ago, James32 said:

I think it's as simple as you got one slightly under weight and someone got an overweight one.

If all 3 are weighing 3gs together then you're golden 🙂

That's a good point @DanielIrwin1987, what's the reading when all three are weighed together?

[DanielIrwin1987]

Hi guys just did another weigh, please see attached video, also measurements are around the same figures ( scales read the same on the floor as on the work top ) 

0.6 / 10.4 / 7.2 mm

0.6 / 10.3 / 7.3 mm

0.6 / 10.4 / 7.2 mm

( carbon fiber digital calipers ) 

Any recommendations on what calibration weight to buy? 

In total for the weight of all 3 its reading 2.99 grams, in the grand scheme of things averages out as I have a few from the stack that weighs "over", but if selling one bar at a time I'm going to have to say this one weighs less and have it cheaper ( hopefully won't ever sell ) 

 

Please see video 👍 its a link only one 

 

[Pete]

Having read all the comments I am inclined to believe that your scales are correct so your bar is 2% below weight.
As mentioned earlier I cannot imagine that breaking up a larger bar would guarantee a better tolerance so your bar is 2% under weight and its neighbour maybe 2% over weight.
Just the luck of the draw buying a section from a larger piece.
I also cannot believe that a dealer bothers to weigh each item before dispatch but I am sure it is weighed on receipt, when they are paying out, but would not necessarily be recorded.

At spot 0.2 of a gram is worth £8-9 so roughy the return cost of insured postage.
If your seller is advertising a 1 gram bar and not mentioning a tolerance then under trading standards you should receive a 1 g bar so either ask for a partial refund or insist your bar is replaced if you are prepared to engage with the hassle for the sake of this difference.
However if you don't have it replaced then you could be facing a reverse argument should you sell at a later date if you forget to mention its weight.
How would that look on a feedback score when a buyer says he / she was short changed ?
 

Correction - my apologies to anyone who has taken interest in this topic
I misread the decimal point and for some reason thought the shortage was 0.2g when it is actually one tenth of a gram 0.02g
This negates most of what I wrote above.
The value lost is therefore less than £1 so not worth arguing over with the seller.
 

Edited January 22, 2022 by Pete
Correction

[James32]

3 minutes ago, DanielIrwin1987 said:

Hi guys just did another weigh, please see attached video, also measurements are around the same figures ( scales read the same on the floor as on the work top ) 

0.6 / 10.4 / 7.2 mm

0.6 / 10.3 / 7.3 mm

0.6 / 10.4 / 7.2 mm

( carbon fiber digital calipers ) 

Any recommendations on what calibration weight to buy? 

In total for the weight of all 3 its reading 2.99 grams, in the grand scheme of things averages out as I have a few from the stack that weighs "over", but if selling one bar at a time I'm going to have to say this one weighs less and have it cheaper ( hopefully won't ever sell ) 

 

Please see video 👍 its a link only one 

 

Yeah as @Pete said,send it back.

Whilst you were unlucky to receive a slightly underweight bar, the hassle and explaining you will have to do when selling isn't worth keeping. 

Dealer will likely be calling you everything under the sun behind your back, but you might aswell get what you paid for. 

[SlowFrog]

6 minutes ago, Pete said:

Having read all the comments I am inclined to believe that your scales are correct so your bar is 2% below weight.
As mentioned earlier I cannot imagine that breaking up a larger bar would guarantee a better tolerance so your bar is 2% under weight and its neighbour maybe 2% over weight.
Just the luck of the draw buying a section from a larger piece.
I also cannot believe that a dealer bothers to weigh each item before dispatch but I am sure it is weighed on receipt, when they are paying out, but would not necessarily be recorded.

At spot 0.2 of a gram is worth £8-9 so roughy the return cost of insured postage.
If your seller is advertising a 1 gram bar and not mentioning a tolerance then under trading standards you should receive a 1 g bar so either ask for a partial refund or insist your bar is replaced if you are prepared to engage with the hassle for the sake of this difference.
However if you don't have it replaced then you could be facing a reverse argument should you sell at a later date if you forget to mention its weight.
How would that look on a feedback score when a buyer says he / she was short changed ?
 

Hi, just a quick one to say he's only missing .02 of a gram. Haven't checked current spot price for a gram but can't imagine he's lost more than a quid. Not sure those scales are super accurate IMHO and could easily be close to 0.01 out which I'd say makes the tolerances either side probably in normal range? I wouldn't be worried if they were my bars.

[DanielIrwin1987]

2 minutes ago, Pete said:

Having read all the comments I am inclined to believe that your scales are correct so your bar is 2% below weight.
As mentioned earlier I cannot imagine that breaking up a larger bar would guarantee a better tolerance so your bar is 2% under weight and its neighbour maybe 2% over weight.
Just the luck of the draw buying a section from a larger piece.
I also cannot believe that a dealer bothers to weigh each item before dispatch but I am sure it is weighed on receipt, when they are paying out, but would not necessarily be recorded.

At spot 0.2 of a gram is worth £8-9 so roughy the return cost of insured postage.
If your seller is advertising a 1 gram bar and not mentioning a tolerance then under trading standards you should receive a 1 g bar so either ask for a partial refund or insist your bar is replaced if you are prepared to engage with the hassle for the sake of this difference.
However if you don't have it replaced then you could be facing a reverse argument should you sell at a later date if you forget to mention its weight.
How would that look on a feedback score when a buyer says he / she was short changed ?
 

100% agree with you, I very much doubt they weigh the bars before dispatch. The sister company ( from this retailer ) sent me a 10g bar before instead of the 5g I ordered, so they do make mistakes ( yes I sent the 10g back and they sent me the correct 5g ) 

I doubt it matters what the site is called, so I ordered from gold and the packaging is from bbp lol so they seem to even be sharing the little bags ( sister companys ) 

[James32]

6 minutes ago, DanielIrwin1987 said:

100% agree with you, I very much doubt they weigh the bars before dispatch. The sister company ( from this retailer ) sent me a 10g bar before instead of the 5g I ordered, so they do make mistakes ( yes I sent the 10g back and they sent me the correct 5g ) 

I doubt it matters what the site is called, so I ordered from gold and the packaging is from bbp lol so they seem to even be sharing the little bags ( sister companys ) 

Well although I'd do the same  ( never happened to me so I hope I would 🤣) , that's quite morally impressive to send back the 10g👍

[ArgentSmith]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

Just the luck of the draw buying a section from a larger piece.

Never had any dealings in 1g bars,  after reading above  ☝️ it all makes perfect sense now.

Edited January 22, 2022 by ArgentSmith

[Pete]

I corrected my earlier comment as I had mistakenly entered 0.2g instead of 0.02g
This devalues the bar by perhaps 80 pence only.
Most inexpensive digital scales that we stackers and collectors use struggle with 0.01 g accuracy.
If you weigh a full sovereign for example you might read 8.00 or 8.01 g and making repeat measurements you will flip from one to the other.
This usually means the actual weight is 8.005 but the resolution cannot show the 3rd decimal point.
A reading of 0.98g could mean the bar is really 0.99g and bars that weigh 1.00g might actually be 1.01g
It is still underweight but is it worth the hassle of a first class postage stamp ?

 

[Smiler999]

Just to chime in, I have 15 quid scales, my sovereign coins all come in at 8.00g or 8.01g when they ought to be 7.98, likely just the scales 

[GoldDiggerDave]

I would not panic over the difference if it's come form a combi bar  they all may not break away 100% equally........What sort of premiums are you paying for those? I know dealers buy back less than spot so you may be getting hammered at both ends of your transactions.    Possibly look at sovereigns for your stack.  

[DanielIrwin1987]

Fully agree with the comments, and yes at about 80p its not a massive problem, but it is more the principle over anything else. I bought a set of calibration weights and guess what, all read bang on lol 

Calibration weights read bang on, but the same problem 1 gram bar still reads under so yeah 🤔

To top it off, someone from Gold.co.uk, has viewed the video I sent them but has not replied  😑 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[paulmerton]

Just now, DanielIrwin1987 said:

Fully agree with the comments, and yes at about 80p its not a massive problem, but it is more the principle over anything else. I bought a set of calibration weights and guess what, all read bang on lol 

Calibration weights read bang on, but the same problem 1 gram bar still reads under so yeah 🤔

To top it off, someone from Gold.co.uk, has viewed the video I sent them but has not replied  😑

 

I assume the primary reason you bought 3 separate 1g chunks from a combibar is for the investment aspect (let's face it, they're not exactly pretty!) and for the freedom to sell them individually in the future.

You're unlikely to attract any additional pennies for the two overweight bars, and you're also likely to struggle to get the full amount for the underweight bar as not only does it weigh less, but some people may be suspicious of that aspect and give it a miss entirely. You could lose out on more than the missing value of gold, as if you do sell it, you'll be passing the burden on and the sale price may reflect that.

For those reasons, you should insist they replace the underweight bar - unless of course you're not too bothered about it.

Either way, I'll be watching to see what gold.co.uk (bullionbypost's other website) do about it!

Sneaky tip: If you have trouble getting anywhere, add something expensive to the basket and then go all the way through the checkout without actually paying for it. They'll probably call you the next day to ask if you have any problems  

[DanielIrwin1987]

22 hours ago, paulmerton said:

I assume the primary reason you bought 3 separate 1g chunks from a combibar is for the investment aspect (let's face it, they're not exactly pretty!) and for the freedom to sell them individually in the future.

You're unlikely to attract any additional pennies for the two overweight bars, and you're also likely to struggle to get the full amount for the underweight bar as not only does it weigh less, but some people may be suspicious of that aspect and give it a miss entirely. You could lose out on more than the missing value of gold, as if you do sell it, you'll be passing the burden on and the sale price may reflect that.

For those reasons, you should insist they replace the underweight bar - unless of course you're not too bothered about it.

Either way, I'll be watching to see what gold.co.uk (bullionbypost's other website) do about it!

Sneaky tip: If you have trouble getting anywhere, add something expensive to the basket and then go all the way through the checkout without actually paying for it. They'll probably call you the next day to ask if you have any problems  

Still no reply from them, seems they have just ignored me completely ( not great customer service ) 

Needed 3 bars to complete a 24 bar holder ( the credit card sized ones ) 

Will pop them a follow up email and see if thats ignored as well 

Not going into what I have spent with both companies but, its silly on their part to ignore this. 

 

When I first phoned them to question it, I fully expected them to say ( send it back ) which i would have done, then they could of weighed it again and replaced 

 

Will keep you updated