What to do with pre 1947 coins?

[theman73]

Hello

I'm little bit confused right now.

I was stacked a few kilo of pre 1947 coins thinking that I can transform them on bars.

After reading about the process of refining silver in this country I think I make a big mistake trying to do this.

Now, let's say you have a few kilo of coins but you want silver bars, (I want rectangular 1 oz silver blanks) how you will do it?

1- selling the coins than buying the bars

2- ???

[James32]

9 minutes ago, theman73 said:

Hello

I'm little bit confused right now.

I was stacked a few kilo of pre 1947 coins thinking that I can transform them on bars.

After reading about the process of refining silver in this country I think I make a big mistake trying to do this.

Now, let's say you have a few kilo of coins but you want silver bars, (I want rectangular 1 oz silver blanks) how you will do it?

1- selling the coins than buying the bars

2- ???

Maybe a question for @BackyardBullion  @RiverbankSilver  @LiquidMetalsUK as they pour silver.

[LiquidMetalsUK]

Reffinjbg is a lot of work maybe @sellerstackermay be able to help. personally I'd sell yours and buy some shot or cheap 1oz coins . few of us on here would be happy to make the blanks for you 😀

[theman73]

10 minutes ago, LiquidMetalsUK said:

Reffinjbg is a lot of work maybe @sellerstackermay be able to help. personally I'd sell yours and buy some shot or cheap 1oz coins . few of us on here would be happy to make the blanks for you 😀

Hi

Finally...

I contact a few mints around but they put me off with their price.

Can you tell me a price for making the blanks with my own silver? .999 of course

Regards

Constantin

[modofantasma]

Some interesting info on the process here, I've not personally worked with the company but a topic I was curious about 
 http://www.jbr.co.uk/process-refining.html

[theman73]

3 minutes ago, modofantasma said:

Some interesting info on the process here, I've not personally worked with the company but a topic I was curious about 
 http://www.jbr.co.uk/process-refining.html

Thank you

They are to big for me

Regards

Constantin

[BackyardBullion]

39 minutes ago, James32 said:

Maybe a question for @BackyardBullion  @RiverbankSilver  @LiquidMetalsUK as they pour silver.

Personally I don't/won't work with anything less than 999 silver as it is just clean and beautiful. Anything less comes out all ugly, dirty and requires a huge amount of additional work to get looking anywhere near as nice. 

@LiquidMetalsUK has it right, cut your losses, sell them and buy 999 fine

 

[theman73]

Thank you BackyardBullion

[BackyardBullion]

3 minutes ago, theman73 said:

Thank you BackyardBullion

No worries buddy.

Basically, if a customer came to me asking to melt these down I would say the following:

I can take the coins and help facilitate their bulk sale via a scrap dealer. Based on my experience getting about 90% of spot price would be the average you will get for them. Once they have been melted the cash raised would be used as store credit for my own pieces.

I would not personally melt them down.

[ArgentSmith]

You could auction them in 500g batches on here or ebay. Although not my thing, I would have thought there would be more value than melt.

[RiverbankSilver]

I might be interested in purchasing a kg from you for slightly more than a Bullion dealer would give you.
Payment would be made once delivery was made though . Please don’t take this personally as it’s quite normal to take delivery before receiving payment, as I see you are recent member with no feedback as a seller.

I would make payment on the same day the delivery arrives.

PM me if your interested in selling

 

 

[James32]

1 minute ago, RiverbankSilver said:

I might be interested in purchasing a kg from you for slightly more than a Bullion dealer would give you.
Payment would be made once delivery was made though . Please don’t take this personally as it’s quite normal to take delivery before receiving payment, as I see you are recent member with no feedback as a seller.

I would make payment on the same day the delivery arrives.

PM me if your interested in selling

 

 

@theman73 there you go 👆 that's what makes this forum great .

[theman73]

Thank you all 

I'm not interested to sell them.

I want to produce somehow my own silver bars.

I was trying to buy blanks, to expensive. 

I was thinking that the pre 1947 coin refined,  which I bought them at spot price is the answer.

I was wrong. 

Maybe finding an option how to buy 999 silver at spot price is the answer. But I have no idea how.

Regards

[BackyardBullion]

If you can find somewhere that sells 999 silver at spot price let us all know!

[James32]

4 minutes ago, theman73 said:

Thank you all 

I'm not interested to sell them.

I want to produce somehow my own silver bars.

I was trying to buy blanks, to expensive. 

I was thinking that the pre 1947 coin refined,  which I bought them at spot price is the answer.

I was wrong. 

Maybe finding an option how to buy 999 silver at spot price is the answer. But I have no idea how.

Regards

Buying silver shot is likely going to be you're cheapest option ( not likely to get close to spot in the UK though unless buying obscene amounts)

Maybe keep your eyes peeled for tarnished or milk spotted coins on the forum then ask one of the gents above to take you to the next phase for an agreed fee.

Edited January 8, 2022 by James32

[Petra]

Get some hallmarked silver, easy to melt down.

Trawl through eBay and auction houses, you will get some below spot even allowing for fees, postage etc. Just do the maths and know the limit you will go to. Also, as an aside try car boots.

[BackyardBullion]

12 minutes ago, Petra said:

Get some hallmarked silver, easy to melt down.

Trawl through eBay and auction houses, you will get some below spot even allowing for fees, postage etc. Just do the maths and know the limit you will go to. Also, as an aside try car boots.

Most of this won't be 999 though, anything less than 999 and it will be the same problem when melting at home

[theman73]

49 minutes ago, BackyardBullion said:

Most of this won't be 999 though, anything less than 999 and it will be the same problem when melting at home

Hi

Can you do something like this ? 1 oz silver bar dimension.

If yes, at what cost? Let's say 500 pcs first.

 

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by theman73

[BackyardBullion]

1 minute ago, theman73 said:

Hi

Can you do something like this ? 1 oz silver bar dimension.

If yes, at what cost? Let's say 500 pcs first.

 

 

Nope, I make poured silver not machine made blanks. If you want something like this you will need the services of a professional refinery rather than small independent silver pourers.

[theman73]

7 minutes ago, BackyardBullion said:

Nope, I make poured silver not machine made blanks. If you want something like this you will need the services of a professional refinery rather than small independent silver pourers.

You ruined all my sweet dreams.

Regards

Constantin

[BackyardBullion]

Just now, theman73 said:

You ruined all my sweet dreams.

Regards

Constantin

Sorry!

[JustPlainGaz]

They have almost tripled in price over the past 2 years. Might be worth holding a bit longer...

[sellerstacker]

Good to know you are thinking of the refining process. It is not easy but doable. A lot depends on how much time you have and your contacts too. To give you an idea of what's involved. You will have to find someone with the equipment, personnel and experience to melt the coins first. Then you will have to get the metal poured into raw sheets/cubes to get the lot assayed, this will then go for refining and from there you will have to process the lot into the grain (not to forget you will need someone with the environmental clearances to dispose of the slag).

This is the easy bit. From here you will decide on what sort of finish you want for the bars and ensure you transport the grain to a production house with the desired capability. To give you an idea of the costs for the manufacturing process. If you produce 1000 bars a day then you are looking at costs of £4.80 per bar + VAT to cast the grain into bars; else, the costs would be far too much to be economical. At this point, you will have the blanks.

Now for the easy bit, you will need to find someone to design your logo and engrave the casts. From there on it's a question of stamping and marketing. You can then pour the bars into a mould provided the design is not already hallmarked. These bars may then have to go to the assay office if you are keen on hallmarking. At each of these steps, you will be faced with transportation and insurance costs. Finally, don't forget that VAT is charged on silver. I have found it easier to buy grain in lots of 100 kgs (or the blanks even) and do what you want with it. There are opportunities at each step. The question is does one have the time. 

To give you an example of the opportunities involved - just the refining element works as follows - your assayed bars reach the refiner, and he will charge you for refining the metal. Let us say you had 9-carat scrap gold you will get close 34.5% gold grain from it. The remaining 65.5% metal is not returned to you. On the contrary, you will pay for its waste disposal. This waste product will contain silver, copper, palladium/platinum (based on how old the jewellery is) and nickel. I have noticed often times the waste product is actually more expensive than the grains derived from the scrap. There are similar opportunities with the waste disposal too.................

If you are keen on the refining route there are players like Baird & Co and Mastermelt. They will need you to start a trade account (and ask for 2 references in the jewellery trade) and will help you with things. FYI Baird & Co will want you to have a company that is listed as being in the jewellery trade and will also not touch anything that is not a minimum of .8 silver so pre 47 coins won't cut it there. My sincere best wishes, keep  us posted on how it goes. All the best!!

Edited January 8, 2022 by sellerstacker

[James32]

3 minutes ago, sellerstacker said:

Good to know you are thinking of the refining process. It is not easy but doable. A lot depends on how much time you have and your contacts too. To give you an idea of what's involved. You will have to find someone with the equipment, personnel and experience to melt the coins first. Then you will have to get the metal poured into raw sheets/cubes to get the lot assayed, this will then go for refining and from there you will have to process the lot into the grain (not to forget you will need someone with the environmental clearances to dispose of the slag).

This is the easy bit. From here you will decide on what sort of finish you want for the bars and ensure you transport the grain to a production house with the desired capability. To give you an idea of the costs for the manufacturing process. If you produce 1000 bars a day then you are looking at costs of £4.80 per bar + VAT to cast the grain into bars; else, the costs would be far too much to be economical. At this point, you will have the blanks.

Now for the easy bit, you will need to find someone to design your logo and engrave the casts. From there on it's a question of stamping and marketing. You can then pour the bars into a mould provided the design is not already hallmarked. These bars may then have to go to the assay office if you are keen on hallmarking. At each of these steps, you will be faced with transportation and insurance costs. Finally, don't forget that VAT is charged on silver. I have found it easier to buy grain in lots of 100 kgs (or the blanks even) and do what you want with it. There are opportunities at each step. The question is does one have the time. 

To give you an example of the opportunities involved - just the refining element works as follows - your assayed bars reach the refiner, and he will charge you for refining the metal. Let us say you had 9-carat scrap gold you will get close 34.5% gold grain from it. The remaining 65.5% metal is not returned to you. On the contrary, you will pay for its waste disposal. This waste product will contain silver, copper, palladium/platinum (based on how old the jewellery is) and nickel. I have noticed often times the waste product is actually more expensive than the grains derived from the scrap. There are similar opportunities with the waste disposal too.................

If you are keen on the refining route there are players like Baird & Co and Mastermelt. They will need you to start a trade account (and ask for 2 references in the jewellery trade) and will help you with things. FYI Baird & Co will want you to have a company that is listed as being in the jewellery trade and will also not touch anything that is not a minimum of .8 silver so pre 47 coins won't cut it there. Good luck!!

Wow not my topic but what a fascinating and very well wrote insight into the process.

Thanks I thoroughly enjoyed that read.

[theman73]

Thank you very much sellerstacker

A perfect explanation why I can't do it here.

You are very right, is Mission Impossible to be cheap in this country so I simply give up on the first idea but after a private conversation with a reputable member of this forum (Thank you again sir) and with his contacts and knowledge I found a easier way to my fulfil my dream.

Regards

Constantin