Beginner checking in... and, how do I know my coin is real??

[MetalGerry]

Thanks for having me on this forum.

In the US and thinking of buying my first bullions, despite all time high costs....seeing the inflation in the US is climbing up...

Right now focused on deciding on buying online vs. local dealers.  Very much afraid of being sold a fake coin by a dealer since I have no idea how to tell... don't really have much confidence in general in local shops, even those that are listed on the official dealer locator page on the US Mint website... Thinking that buying online from "Authorized Purchasers of US Mint bullion" may be safer for a beginner...

[BackyardBullion]

Welcome to the forum!

Yes, you are 100% right that buying from a established dealer is a lot safer. 

[GBStacking]

Afraid i cant comment on buying in the US as I'm UK based, but welcome to the forum! 🙋‍♂️ I'm certain there will be some US members along in short order that will be able to offer some good advice. 

[trp]

Welcome to TSF!  

[MetalGerry]

6 hours ago, GBStacking said:

Afraid i cant comment on buying in the US as I'm UK based, but welcome to the forum! 🙋‍♂️ I'm certain there will be some US members along in short order that will be able to offer some good advice. 

is this forum mostly UK-based?  Seems like a lot of members are from UK

[GBStacking]

@MetalGerry There are a lot of UK members on here, but the US is pretty well represented, there is a specific sales thread for US and Canada, a pinned thread for gold deals in US and Canada and about 58 pages of members showing with their location as the US.  There are a very large number of threads though where we all chip in about our love of shiny things. I've found a wealth of info on here, and for a lot of things, it doesn't matter where someone is if they are discussing differences in coins or highlighting things to look out for. We all ultimately get access to a lot of the same things, however i must admit to getting a little green with envy that you guys states side don't have to pay VAT on your silver!  

[Arganto]

Welcome to TSF 👍🏻

[modofantasma]

Welcome to the forum. I'd say it's worth buying from a reputable dealer at least initially until you know what's what. Not worth trying to save a few bucks buying from someone you don't know or hasn't got a track record. Look for established members of the forum in your area too maybe for a purchase 

[daca]

Welcome aboard!

[sjhdesmond]

Hello and welcome. I'm guessing most of the American members were asleep when you posted?

[Rashka]

Welcome to the silver forum!

[Mikk]

Welcome to The Silver Forum :-)

[MetalGerry]

Thank you all for your welcomes!

So, here goes the #1 newbie cry of course – how do I know my gold bullion will be real??😬

I am starting with regular non-collectible gold bullion for asset-keeping.  Somehow the standard advice I pick up from Google search is not very reassuring - precise measures of weight/size, pings, magnetism test etc – seems doubtful I myself can conduct those tests properly and with confidence, and even if I can, they  say there are some fakes that pass the tests… So does it all just come down to “buy from a reputable dealer” and have my fingers crossed that reputable dealers have superhuman powers not to let any fakes through?? 😬

What about sticking to Maple Leafs verified by a DNA reader – does that really provide much higher guarantee compared to others? 
 

[KevinFlynn]

1 hour ago, MetalGerry said:

Thank you all for your welcomes!

So, here goes the #1 newbie cry of course – how do I know my gold bullion will be real??😬

I am starting with regular non-collectible gold bullion for asset-keeping.  Somehow the standard advice I pick up from Google search is not very reassuring - precise measures of weight/size, pings, magnetism test etc – seems doubtful I myself can conduct those tests properly and with confidence, and even if I can, they  say there are some fakes that pass the tests… So does it all just come down to “buy from a reputable dealer” and have my fingers crossed that reputable dealers have superhuman powers not to let any fakes through?? 😬

What about sticking to Maple Leafs verified by a DNA reader – does that really provide much higher guarantee compared to others? 
 

So how do you reassure yourself?

Apart from experience, which will come over time, you will have the choices of:

. Recognition: take a known design. If you have a piece that you know is genuine you can make a one on one comparison. Coins usually have more intricate details than most bars.

. Weight: some basic scales do not set you back a lot and will fit into your pocket.

. Diameter: calipers are not that expensive either. You can do with measuring tape and a good eye.

. Thickness: calipers are best for this.

Get used to weighing and measuring, it does not have to have scientific accuracy. If size and weight match the publicly known values, the density of a given piece is about right. It is an easy way to get a lot of reassurance with relatively low effort.

. Trust: buy from well known (large) dealers at first. Those usually get their product from equally reliable sources, like the mints, or they do test what they buy (search sigma verifier).

Last: Fakes are there, but they are not everywhere. Know what and where to buy. Cover the basics by measuring (will be after the fact though). Build up trust in the sources you buy from. Build up your own experience.

[Centauri167]

Welcome on this great forum, it will be a place were you will learn a lot more about collecting and stacking !

 

A LCS is a place of trust, if you do not trust the shop, don't buy there. In a lot of videos on Youtube you see them going to their coin shops so those are already a good place to go.

But in the US you have so many online dealers with a great reputation as Hero Bullion, SD Bullion, apmex, ...; so if you are afraid in the beginning, just start with them and take your time in looking for a LCS that you trust.

 

 

[ChrisSilver]

Hello and welcome to The Silver Forum  

[MetalGerry]

On 23/11/2021 at 22:25, KevinFlynn said:

Get used to weighing and measuring, it does not have to have scientific accuracy. If size and weight match the publicly known values, the density of a given piece is about right. It is an easy way to get a lot of reassurance with relatively low effort.

That’s very good advice….

Are there official specifications from the mints on each bullion coin?  Especially on the thickness, would it have different measures at the edges vs. center because of the relief, or the same?  

Is there advice here on the forum on scales, calibration, caliper models? 

[KevinFlynn]

You can get information on measurements and weights from online repositories and dealer's websites. I'm referencing german websites, not sure if that helps

Measuring thickness can indeed be tricky, I'm usually referencing the rim.

For scales search for something like jeweller's scales. Precision is better if you decide on a close maximum weight, i.e. 50g scales are more accurate on troy ounce measurements than 500g scales. See that you have enough digits (you're accurate to a digit less than shown). I invested in a little better than basic model, it came with callibration weights:

For caliphers I am using a model that I already had and used in model making.

[KevinFlynn]

I would advise to get a well known basic coin from a more than trustworthy source. That way you can get a feel for it.

It could be from a large reputable dealer (you being from the US it could be from APMEX), though those aren't usually the cheapest. Or directly from the mint (like the US Mint), though you will pay dearly (really).

You will get more opinions if you open a topic in the general forum area  like under gold.

[MetalGerry]

1 hour ago, KevinFlynn said:

It could be from a large reputable dealer (you being from the US it could be from APMEX), though those aren't usually the cheapest. Or directly from the mint (like the US Mint), though you will pay dearly (really).

True...US Mint only sells proofs and uncirculated directly to public, which all have a huge markup.

[CadmiumGreen]

Welcome aboard The Silver Forum!