Please help with valuation of 20 Mark Mecklenburg Strelitz

[Bixley]

I have just obtained this coin and I would like the experts to give me their thoughts on its value. The numista page gives its mintage as 6000 and its rarity as 97. The weight of my coin is 7.99g with a diameter of 22.57mm.

 

[Alex944]

Hi Bixley,

From my (relatively limited) research, this coin is very hard to obtain. I have seen two examples of coins being sold via a german dealer, one in a bit nicer grade was listed for around £16.000 and one that is slightly more comparable to your example here for about £10,500. I am not sure if that was their actual sale price but you can find them here for reference:

https://www.ma-shops.com/stuecker/item.php?id=2194
https://www.ma-shops.com/stuecker/item.php?id=999

There was one listed on ebay very recently but the sale has been ''ended'', which I'm not sure it means if it sold. Either way, that was listed for 19.500 EUR (about £16.500). Additionally I have seen a sale put up on a German dealer site for £8.800, though it does state ''Currently unavailable)

All in all, I think it's relatively safe to say that this coin doesn't really come up for less £8000-£10000. definitely a valuable piece you have over there.

** Edit - Based on the premise that this coin is indeed genuine, I did not check for that, rather just for reference. I am not knowledgable enough to confirm it's genuine or not. **

All the best,

Edited November 18, 2021 by Alex944

[Bixley]

Alex944, Thank you very much for your comments. I was wondering whether the coin is genuine. It was bought on ebay from someone who appears to be a dealer judging from the number of coins he has for sale.  He also has an ebay rating of over 2000. I paid little more than bullion value for it. On the plus side, the weight appears about right, the diameter is about right and although worn the edge inscription is there.

Does anyone know of an expert who could help me ascertain its genuineness?

Regards, Bixley

 

[Alex944]

Well if it is genuine, you may have struck an absolute bargain. I would be a tad worried because of it though, the whole ''if it seems to good to be true'' type thing, but that doesn't mean you can strike gold sometimes. @Leonmarshhas a good taste in nice and older world coins, though I don't know if this is up his alley.

Fingers crossed, I really hope for you it turns out to be genuine!

[CollectForFun]

For your reference, I attach a link to a German forum where the same question was asked 10 years back. Apparently, this particular type of coin was commonly forged even then, so it is not impossible that yours is not genuine either. But, on the bright side, the forgeries may have the right gold content...

https://www.numismatikforum.de/viewtopic.php?t=42418

[Aran]

Hello Bixley. If it is genuine, you have a very rare and sought after coin (mintage 6000). However you need to ascertain if it is in fact genuine. I have attached a photo from Kurt Jaeger (standard reference on German coins after 1871). You will note the ‘F’ symbol which denotes ‘Fälschungen vorbekommen’ which is fairly obvious in translation. Submission to NGC/PCGS I think is warranted, or indeed Künker (very reputable German auction house) visit the larger UK coin fairs regularly and you could ask their opinion.

That all said the coin looks nice in the photo and to my eye in ‘ss’ condition. Good luck with it!

[modofantasma]

@DuncanWylieWilson would be the go to person to ask about this kind of thing although looking virtually might only be so much use 

[Leonmarsh]

Hi yes been looking this coin for weeks if its the same one from beattybaz off ebay it was up for 400 quid 

If its genuine you have a bargain it's a 10,000 coin minimum 

However in my opinion its a copy of its the same coin 

First pic is genuine second pic is the one for sale huge differences 

[Leonmarsh]

If you look at the feathers, the detail under the shield 

The O the bottom Of the M

The lines between the feathers in my opinion it is an imitation 

More than likely be gold but none the less an imitation so worth bullion value 

But if I'm wrong and trust me I'm not expert at all far from it I'm going to be kicking myself for years 

 

[DuncanWylieWilson]

I agree with a lot of what is being said here, but I wouldn’t be comfortable stating outright whether or not it’s genuine or a replication.

I always think it’s unfair to judge a coin unless you have it in hand and can have it assessed.

I would never give an opinion on authenticity unless I was able to have the coin in hand and had access to an array of analytical techniques.

All I will say is it’s very clearly a rare type and highly sought after, so I really do hope that it’s genuine as it would be a fantastic buy for you, regardless of whether you’re intending on keeping it or selling it on.

A nice type and wishing you all the best with it!

Cheers!

Duncan. 🌟

[Bixley]

Leon,

>>been looking this coin for weeks if its the same one from beattybaz off ebay it was up for 400 quid 

Yes it is this one. I got it for £360!

>>If its genuine you have a bargain it's a 10,000 coin minimum 

People like me don't get that lucky!

>>However in my opinion its a copy of its the same coin 

I think you may be right that its a fake. But now I have a dilemma. Do I get it graded by NGC just in case it is genuine?

Bixley

[Leonmarsh]

If you get it graded you will possibly fall outside of the ebay returns window 

Another big difference if you Look at either side of the shield the difference between the two 

He originally had it listed at 9,000 so I don't pay much attention  so when he reduced it to 400 I nearly soiled myself which made me do more research into it and takes those pics as I was going to jump on it last week when I asked for more provenance he got it from a mate of a mate 

On another note and in fairness I have bought myself from him genuine coins, I think he bought it himself thinking he got a bargain and found out the same that it was possibly an imitation and wanted to get off the coin which is a little naughty

If I were you, I would see if it was gold first before ngc 

If its gold which I think it will be you will at least have the bullion value and if you want to sell pass it on as a copy which is still desirable with the xrf analysis, I know backyard Bullion has a machine 

If its not gold I would then return within the eBay window

Just my thoughts 

As @DuncanWylieWilson days it hard with out a coin in hand and why I took those. Pics at time of listing which are still on my phone to compare and contrast 

Edited November 18, 2021 by Leonmarsh

[Leonmarsh]

You watch now it will come back as an even rarer mis strike on only 1 in the world worth a million lol!!! 

Then I will look like a right knob 

[Leonmarsh]

The other thing to consider asbhebisba coin guy, sold alot extensive feedback and other coins genuine 

If he had a 10k coin he would know you more likely to pick up up a bargain from a random who has inherited it etc anf doesn't know what it is 

[Bixley]

I decided to return the coin to the seller. I said it was a fake and that I understood that the coin had originally been on sale for £9K. He accepted the return and refunded my money. He initially commented-

'I have received your return request and that is fine I will sort it out this afternoon. The coin came to me from a respected London gold dealer who do all their own checks before selling, so I will be sending it back to them on return. I am not in the realms of trying to deceive anyone which is why I let it go for a little above the gold spot price in the end. Apologies for the inconvenience. Your refund will be processed once the coin comes back.'

He then later added-

'I just wanted to let you know that I have contacted the London dealers who have now told me that the coin is probably a re-strike and that they checked it was the correct weight and carat before it came to me. It will be going back to them to be checked again. Many thanks and apologies again'. 

I didn't know there were restrikes for this coin, Numista don't mention it! And I don't think he addressed the point that if he believed it was genuine why would he drop the price from £9k to accepting my offer of £360.

I received another German coin today. I hope this one isn't a fake as well! Any ideas on its value?

[Leonmarsh]

I don't think a London coin dealer would sell him a real strelitz at spot? 

10 mark looks good to meb