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Converting Maples to Sovs... best way?


Melon

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I'm thinking about converting 20 1/4oz Maples into 25 Sovereigns. Interested in whether anyone's ever done something similar and how you went about it?

In an ideal world I'd swap in through a dealer, but from what I've seen I'd lose out on both ends of that deal (i.e. have to sell circa 5% under spot and pay a 5% premium on the buy). Effectively treated as two separate transactions so-to-speak, as opposed to a 'trade-in' type scenario. I'd be comfortable paying a premium on the new coins of course as I wouldn't expect this service for free, but couldn't justify losing cash on both ends of the transaction (effectively a 10% cost to convert). 

Does anyone know of anywhere well suited to a trade-in type scenario? 

The other option would be to sell the Maples privately and buy the Sovereigns afterwards. Probably the smart call financially as I imagine 1/4oz Maples would achieve a small premium over spot, but that option has it's own downsides too. 

Cheers all! 😄

 

 

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2 minutes ago, richatthecroft said:

I think this is your best option 😃

Yea, the lazy part of me doesn't want the hassle of splitting up etc... but if there's no better option then that's the fall back 👍 (or I just don't bother with this crazy scheme at all lol)

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1 minute ago, Melon said:

Yea, the lazy part of me doesn't want the hassle of splitting up etc... but if there's no better option then that's the fall back 👍 (or I just don't bother with this crazy scheme at all lol)

😂 It would be a hassle.  I think overall you might as well stick with the Maples and then add Sovereigns going forward. 

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9 hours ago, richatthecroft said:

Melon will know what his motivation is but as others have said, perhaps CGT or increase weight? Start a collection of Sovereigns? 

Pretty much all of the above. I sold off everything but the Maples some time ago (not in a bad way and sold at a profit, as I wanted to get into a higher deposit bracket on my home for a cheap fix). 

Now contemplating building up again and think I might just stick to bog standard, CGT free sovs. 

9 hours ago, Liam84 said:

1/4 oz gold from a mint's key line (Maples, Britannias etc) tend to carry quite a reasonable premium so selling them then buying the sovereigns would no doubt leave you quids-in if you're after bullion sovereigns.

Fair point. I was looking at a tube of mint-fresh 2021 sovs and premiums seem to be 5% on those, but perhaps I'd be better off piecing out the selling and the buying for optimum returns. I'm a lazy melon though! 😄

6 hours ago, Hunter87 said:

Have you got any pics of the maples? 

Not a recent one as I don't keep them nearby, but here's some eye-candy I shared previously on the forum. Looking at these, maybe I should just keep them 🤤😄

DSC00814.thumb.JPG.e2329745a1cd2d496d5abb1542051c7c.JPG

DSC00873.thumb.JPG.743d1f700a10670cdbca44e630b7f7ff.JPG

Edited by Melon
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1 hour ago, Melon said:

Pretty much all of the above. I sold off everything but the Maples some time ago (not in a bad way and sold at a profit, as I wanted to get into a higher deposit bracket on my home for a cheap fix). 

Now contemplating building up again and think I might just stick to bog standard, CGT free sovs. 

Fair point. I was looking at a tube of mint-fresh 2021 sovs and premiums seem to be 5% on those, but perhaps I'd be better off piecing out the selling and the buying for optimum returns. I'm a lazy melon though! 😄

Not a recent one as I don't keep them nearby, but here's some eye-candy I shared previously on the forum. Looking at these, maybe I should just keep them 🤤😄

DSC00814.thumb.JPG.e2329745a1cd2d496d5abb1542051c7c.JPG

DSC00873.thumb.JPG.743d1f700a10670cdbca44e630b7f7ff.JPG

🤤🤤😍😍😍😍

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20 hours ago, Melon said:

I'm thinking about converting 20 1/4oz Maples into 25 Sovereigns. Interested in whether anyone's ever done something similar and how you went about it?

In an ideal world I'd swap in through a dealer, but from what I've seen I'd lose out on both ends of that deal (i.e. have to sell circa 5% under spot and pay a 5% premium on the buy). Effectively treated as two separate transactions so-to-speak, as opposed to a 'trade-in' type scenario. I'd be comfortable paying a premium on the new coins of course as I wouldn't expect this service for free, but couldn't justify losing cash on both ends of the transaction (effectively a 10% cost to convert). 

Does anyone know of anywhere well suited to a trade-in type scenario? 

The other option would be to sell the Maples privately and buy the Sovereigns afterwards. Probably the smart call financially as I imagine 1/4oz Maples would achieve a small premium over spot, but that option has it's own downsides too. 

Cheers all! 😄

 

 

Sell them on here, then you will at least get a small premium like you say and buy sovereigns on here(some cracking deals on here at times especially if you can purchase in quantity. 

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If you are selling your coins, you can expect @10% premium for a bullion Maple. So, a fair price is today £360 each. Your bulk lot is 20 x £360 = £7200.

The best price for sovereigns is £320 each (under 5% premium). 25 x £320 = £8000.

I don't think you can convert your coins in 25 sovereigns without adding some extra £800.

Judging other way:

In 20 quarters you have 155.5g pure gold content.

In 25 sovereigns are 183g pure gold content. The difference is huge: 27.5g pure gold, at a spot value of £1160.

You can't expect to win £1160 only playing the premium's game. The best scenario is to pay £800 for these 27.5g extra.

All the best with your trade! But be prepared to pay some extra if you want a full tube of sovereigns.

Cheers!

Stefan.

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14 hours ago, Melon said:

Not a recent one as I don't keep them nearby, but here's some eye-candy I shared previously on the forum. Looking at these, maybe I should just keep them 🤤😄

DSC00814.thumb.JPG.e2329745a1cd2d496d5abb1542051c7c.JPG

DSC00873.thumb.JPG.743d1f700a10670cdbca44e630b7f7ff.JPG

Wow.... what beauty!!

Man, I know you have your reasons for shifting but I would find it near impossible to chop these in for Sovereigns!!

This is pure Gold porn!! 

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5 hours ago, stefffana said:

If you are selling your coins, you can expect @10% premium for a bullion Maple. So, a fair price is today £360 each. Your bulk lot is 20 x £360 = £7200.

The best price for sovereigns is £320 each (under 5% premium). 25 x £320 = £8000.

I don't think you can convert your coins in 25 sovereigns without adding some extra £800.

Judging other way:

In 20 quarters you have 155.5g pure gold content.

In 25 sovereigns are 183g pure gold content. The difference is huge: 27.5g pure gold, at a spot value of £1160.

You can't expect to win £1160 only playing the premium's game. The best scenario is to pay £800 for these 27.5g extra.

All the best with your trade! But be prepared to pay some extra if you want a full tube of sovereigns.

Cheers!

Stefan.

Yes perhaps I was unclear, when I talk percentages I'm talking premium over/under spot oz-for-oz, but of course more gold = more money total. I certainly would expect to be putting more money into the equation, and I'd be expecting to pay a lot more than £800 to be honest! 

It seems the way dealers operate (understandably) is they'll buy your gold usually at a % under spot (I was offered 5% under spot) and they'll sell you gold at a premium (in this instance 5% over spot), which equates to a 10% cost to trade in oz-for-oz or a double bite-of-the-pie for the dealer effectively. Effectively it's no different than if two separate people made two separate transactions (one to sell and one to buy). My hope was there may be a dealer that would take a view on the transaction as a whole so-to-speak, but it doesn't sound like there is. Quite understandable given it must be a relatively rare scenario. 

To give a random example... if you have a games console to offload you can head to your local CEX and sell it or trade-it-in against something they have in stock. If you trade-it-in your item is worth more than if you just outright sell it. The shop effectively is willing to make less margin on the incoming new stock (less-not-none), in order to secure the margin on the outgoing stock. 

I've definitely overcomplicated this haven't I? Or have I spotted a gap in the market? Melon's Precious Metal Trading Exchange, coming to a high street near you 😄

Edited by Melon
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Nothing remarkable about a quarter Maple.
A piece of gold and nothing else with zero numi or collectable status.
Any premium is purely down to marketing and timing if you find someone prepared to pay extra.
HGM will buy a one ounce bullion gold coin for about £1,271 ( with spot at £1,284 so 99% which is a great offer ) and a quarter ounce at £317 so no premium attributed to the smaller denomination.

I am sure you would easily sell your fractional Maples on this forum for a bit above HGM's buy price but maybe only a percent or so above spot.
On the other hand HGM could buy all your Maples and you would have the money in your bank the same day so for zero hassle that's maybe worth considering.
You can also readily obtain sovereigns from multiple sellers typically 5% over spot and sometimes a bit less but sovereigns are in more demand so tend not to be discounted.

Gold is gold so it is not obvious to me why you would want to switch from 24ct to 22ct.
If you can sell at a premium then great but finding buyers - good luck.
You can always add sovereigns in the future if cash permits.

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11 minutes ago, Pete said:

Nothing remarkable about a quarter Maple.
A piece of gold and nothing else with zero numi or collectable status.
Any premium is purely down to marketing and timing if you find someone prepared to pay extra.
HGM will buy a one ounce bullion gold coin for about £1,271 ( with spot at £1,284 so 99% which is a great offer ) and a quarter ounce at £317 so no premium attributed to the smaller denomination.

I am sure you would easily sell your fractional Maples on this forum for a bit above HGM's buy price but maybe only a percent or so above spot.
On the other hand HGM could buy all your Maples and you would have the money in your bank the same day so for zero hassle that's maybe worth considering.
You can also readily obtain sovereigns from multiple sellers typically 5% over spot and sometimes a bit less but sovereigns are in more demand so tend not to be discounted.

Gold is gold so it is not obvious to me why you would want to switch from 24ct to 22ct.
If you can sell at a premium then great but finding buyers - good luck.
You can always add sovereigns in the future if cash permits.

Fractional gold usually does command a bit of a premium, but in my defence from the first post I've been talking about paying a premium to convert to Sovs, not trying to get a premium on the Maples! 

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I think if you batched together in (4s so 1 oz total) and put out a highly competitive price at say £1350 per oz then I'm pretty sure they will go like hot cakes and you have limited the number of sales needed to (5) and guaranteed yourself to get at least £337.50 per coin which equates to roughly a 4% premium over spot. Then take the next step and work out a plan for the sovereigns, maybe put up a wanted post on here or such. None of this is financial advice though and I wish you the very best in your journey. I will add one more thing though (what a nice predicament to be in lol)

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On 13/10/2021 at 23:53, Melon said:

I'm thinking about converting 20 1/4oz Maples into 25 Sovereigns. Interested in whether anyone's ever done something similar and how you went about it?

In an ideal world I'd swap in through a dealer, but from what I've seen I'd lose out on both ends of that deal (i.e. have to sell circa 5% under spot and pay a 5% premium on the buy). Effectively treated as two separate transactions so-to-speak, as opposed to a 'trade-in' type scenario. I'd be comfortable paying a premium on the new coins of course as I wouldn't expect this service for free, but couldn't justify losing cash on both ends of the transaction (effectively a 10% cost to convert). 

Does anyone know of anywhere well suited to a trade-in type scenario? 

The other option would be to sell the Maples privately and buy the Sovereigns afterwards. Probably the smart call financially as I imagine 1/4oz Maples would achieve a small premium over spot, but that option has it's own downsides too. 

Cheers all! 😄

 

 

Also consider giving a few main dealers (Baird, BBP, Chards, Atkinsons) a call and ask what kind of deal they could offer on a swap. I did something similar recently and managed a sub 3% conversion cost. 

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2 hours ago, James32 said:

I think if you batched together in (4s so 1 oz total) and put out a highly competitive price at say £1350 per oz then I'm pretty sure they will go like hot cakes and you have limited the number of sales needed to (5) and guaranteed yourself to get at least £337.50 per coin which equates to roughly a 4% premium over spot. Then take the next step and work out a plan for the sovereigns, maybe put up a wanted post on here or such. None of this is financial advice though and I wish you the very best in your journey. I will add one more thing though (what a nice predicament to be in lol)

Good shout 

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3 hours ago, James32 said:

I think if you batched together in (4s so 1 oz total) and put out a highly competitive price at say £1350 per oz then I'm pretty sure they will go like hot cakes and you have limited the number of sales needed to (5) and guaranteed yourself to get at least £337.50 per coin which equates to roughly a 4% premium over spot. Then take the next step and work out a plan for the sovereigns, maybe put up a wanted post on here or such. None of this is financial advice though and I wish you the very best in your journey. I will add one more thing though (what a nice predicament to be in lol)

Very good advice there

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Apart from how glorious those Maples look all piled up in their pure gold glory I can see the logic in getting into sovereigns, especially if you're effectively 'starting again' after a sell off. It's one of the only ways to get fractional gold at low premiums (for regular bullion at least) and they are super liquid. It's a funny time for gold on the forum at the moment, some stuff seems to hang about longer than you'd expect, but I reckon if you came under the dealers by a couple of percent they'd go pretty quickly. Dealers are in the ~14% range so there's scope for a happy trade for you and a potential buyer. Some folk play the flipping game and may take batches at a % or two under the singles price to make a drink on the back end.

Lots of options 😁

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Thanks everyone for the good guidance. I think I know my path forward now, which is probably either keep them or sell them in batches on the forum. 

4 hours ago, noddycoder said:

Also consider giving a few main dealers (Baird, BBP, Chards, Atkinsons) a call and ask what kind of deal they could offer on a swap. I did something similar recently and managed a sub 3% conversion cost. 

Mind letting me know which one worked out for you? (or I can message you direct if preferred - cheers) 

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