New Gold Coin and Bar Testers

[paulmerton]

Would timing how long it takes for a coin to slide down a fixed slope of neodymium magnets allow similar results to be obtained?

[kimchi]

45 minutes ago, EON said:

Hi Coverte.

  Yes, you are are added to the list, The first batch of the featured product will have a limited order,  as many of the parts etc will be hand made, I think a nice feature might be to have these first items engraved? let me know what you think of this idea. I will make sure to contact you to ensure you have the priority option of joining this limited order. I will also contact you directly with news, pricing etc, as we progress. I am already working on another render of the tester in a glass or perspex case, that will cover the top of the tester this is based of the feedback I have received here.

Thanks Again,

Rory

As I'm on the list but waiting to see which model (dependent on prices) will I be able to select the one I want and options etc when you have the launch details?

Edited September 20, 2021 by kimchi

[EON]

Hi Kimchi

    Yes of course,  @kimchi, @skyfiller, @coverte

I really appreciate you guys being potential first adopters on this forum, anything I think to offer to any later people who sign up will be by default true for you too.

It is very helpful to me to get some idea of demand, ultimately I will be able to price the testers based off a price demand curve, while still taking into account the cost to manufacture.

So it is especially appreciated that you register your interest early. My career has actually been spent in financial risk management, by signing up first, you in way take the most risk, even though you have nothing committed on the line yet, this helps me as I can move forward with reasonable confidence that there are orders in the pipeline. I would like to think of rewarding those who sign up earliest and convert to a sale, in the order for which they sign up. leave this with me, while i think of something fair. There will certainly be a need for a critical mass of orders reached for us to go to manufacture even on a small scale.

Thanks Again.

Rory

[EON]

Hi Paul,

 There is such a product in existence. And it’s a nice idea. I came across this in my research. The coin slide it’s called

and someone else from the US patented the terminal velocities on the slide.

That invention has a series of magnets in a row lining the slide, consequently with North Pole upward then South Pole upward.

Again this would work on eddy currents. Potential problems There may be with the physics is that the friction is may be a very large component, and may behave differently depending on humidity temperature etc.

the friction also may  prevent testing through packaging.

the slide of course needs to be on an exactly flat surface, otherwise the downward vectors will be different.

since there are so many magnets employed, it may be difficult to get similar results from one device to another.

there may be no way to calibrate out the gravity and frictional forces, that I can see.

having said that I haven’t studied it in detail, so I am open to correction on any of those observations.

I don’t want to knock someone else’s invention. It is a good idea.

 

 

[stackerp5]

On 15/09/2021 at 13:30, Pete said:

PS - have you considered manufacturing a coin tester using the "ping test" ?
Coins have resonant frequencies that can be recorded - audio spectrum analysis.
The difficulty in testing using this method is striking the coin and suspending it to give an undampened ring.
A simple tap, microphone and spectral analysis using free software like Audacity will generate easily identifiable resonant spikes that can be used to characterise each coin.
I spent some time several years ago exploring this method with very good results just for fun.

Hi Pete, I believe there is a product that holds the coin firmly in the centre and there's a lever or button that you fling to strike/ping the coin. Unfortunately they only offered that product but could be used along with other apps such as the "ping coin" app. I cant remember the company/make though so that's a bummer, but I am 99% sure I've seen it, probably around the forum.

[EON]

I came across most of these in my research, 

https://www.thefisch.com

I looked at over 70 different testers.

 

[stackerp5]

On 15/09/2021 at 19:27, EON said:

6. These are being sold as stand alone, with the website account being used to build up a database of results from the coins or bars. For instance with the iot device we can build a database on the counterfeit coins or bars also, we can then advise from the reading if your coin matches a known counterfeit.

Hi Rory, very interesting product and stunning design! One question popped to my mind regarding the answer above.

I take my privacy very seriously as I bet other stackers on here also do, even though we deal frequently and exchange names, bank/paypal details, addresses/PO boxes, etc... I would rather only myself and (a partner or close family member) know what coins/bars I've got. Is there any way to have accounts or entries be anonymous to the company, or accounts not requiring much (or any) personal information upon registration? I'm not saying I don't trust the company, nor am I saying the company would be involved in any such thing - but in this digital era, hundreds of private/public companies and individuals are targeted by hackers or people with malicious intent on a daily basis. The idea that there's an account with my name (and probably shipping/billing address) on it showing what gold/silver coins/bars I've tested as legitimate is a bit freaky. 

The app "ping coin" for example has the option of users uploading recorded audio of coins being pinged to be added to the database. The addition of such audio is made fairly anonymously, with any privacy concerned individuals (such as myself) being able to be mostly (or probably completely) anonymous with their information and data in regards to how the recording is sent, what number, user, IMEI or other information is sent to the app creator, etc. 

Disclaimer: I am not implying the creator of the app "ping coin" records and keeps personal data of users that submit samples, I am saying it is possible for the app creator to do so with/without malicious intent and I am also claiming that with this - or any other - app, if weary, the user can go the extra mile to not be identified in any way.

Hope my response wasn't too convoluted. I would be more than happy to expand on this if needed  

Edited September 20, 2021 by stackerp5
disclaimer

[EON]

Hi Stackerp

     Very good question. I originally had developed the IOT tester, and I got this exact feedback from a buddy of mine who is a great enthusiast. Now I can pasture you that we will have maximum security etc on the website, with data etc. However I Realise that’s just not the point, the ultimate safety is no registered data, and for those who have this level of concern that is why I developed the completely offline model that you see in the video. This can be provided with a physical card option, with the data of the readings from all the most well known coins.

There will of course be some advantages to being online with an ever growing database, but there is no reason that the cards cannot be updated with this information for physical delivery over time also.

How does that sound?

 

 

 

[Coverte]

3 hours ago, EON said:

I would like to think of rewarding those who sign up earliest and convert to a sale, in the order for which they sign up. leave this with me, while i think of something fair. There will certainly be a need for a critical mass of orders reached for us to go to manufacture even on a small scale.

Thanks Again.

Rory

Maybe you could offer some little 'limited edition' plaque on the first ones you make, as has become popular for many years on some car brands.

It does look quite nice if you sit in an older car with an internal plate saying #1 of 120 built - that sort of thing, maybe even a specific minor but distinct visible difference, colour, whatever.

[EON]

Great idea, Thanks

[CaptCaveMan]

First of all, many thanks @EONfor sharing your hard work with us.

I'm possibly interested in a pendulum but there is one thing that dissuades me, the name on the base plate, EON BULLION.  If someone is in my property - invited or not and reads this if on display somewhere, "oh! why do they have something to do with bullion?".

I know we're all collectors and share our interest here on TSF but perhaps just a logo and EON as we're quite a secretive bunch about our hobby in general?

[Gordy]

3 minutes ago, CaptCaveMan said:

First of all, many thanks @EONfor sharing your hard work with us.

I'm possibly interested in a pendulum but there is one thing that dissuades me, the name on the base plate, EON BULLION.  If someone is in my property - invited or not and reads this if on display somewhere, "oh! why do they have something to do with bullion?".

I know we're all collectors and share our interest here on TSF but perhaps just a logo and EON as we're quite a secretive bunch about our hobby in general?

I think E.ON would have a moan at that one lol... but you do have a valid point... burglars would look at it like an ornament and people you invite in you should trust... the plumber should NOT be checking out your ornaments... esp if its hidden away in the knicker drawer 😂

[CaptCaveMan]

4 minutes ago, Gordy said:

I think E.ON would have a moan at that one lol... but you do have a valid point... burglars would look at it like an ornament and people you invite in you should trust... the plumber should NOT be checking out your ornaments... esp if its hidden away in the knicker drawer 😂

I daren't look to see what's hidden in the knickers drawer 🤣

[HerefordBullyun]

5 minutes ago, Gordy said:

esp if its hidden away in the knicker drawer 😂

Id dread any burglar going through my exs knicker draws it was massive.  I used to burn my bottom on the light bulb, when we were in throws of passion! 

[EON]

Hi Captcaveman 😂

That’s interesting feedback, and I can see why that would be the case.

I guess this doesn’t matter on the board? As you might just store that away.

we could leave the “bullion” off the Back plate on the IOT device.

When stored away both the IOT device and the offline device have a platform the slides over the logo on the base of the testing area. So this “bullion” would not be visible.

We’d keep the EON.

The company is called EON for a few reasons, just to fill you in. The first one is that gold was created EON’s ago

in the collision between two neutron stars, this was discovered in 2017 from the LIGO gravitational wave experiments.

(very nerdy I know, but I guess i’ve Already nailed my colours to the mast)

the second, is the timelessness of gold, as it doesn’t degrade.

The third then is the sustainability of a gold based economy versus the unsustainability of a fiat currency based economy, and of course on shorter time scales it has been the predominant currency for all of history, and may well be again.

Anyway, I digress, I’d be interested to get other opinions an whether having the bullion visible is a problem. It does make sense what your saying.

 

Thanks for that feedback

[EON]

While i’m At it the circle dot logo is the alchemical symbol for the sun and gold, hopefully your plumber wouldn’t know this, or if he did maybe he’d be more intrigued than thieving 😂😂

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alchemical_symbol

 

[stackerp5]

On 19/09/2021 at 16:15, HerefordBullyun said:

Yes she was a lovely girl shame her tattoos werent spelt right.

Ah yes, that "No Ragrets" tattoo, I know that Sue!

[stackerp5]

3 hours ago, EON said:

Hi Stackerp

     Very good question. I originally had developed the IOT tester, and I got this exact feedback from a buddy of mine who is a great enthusiast. Now I can pasture you that we will have maximum security etc on the website, with data etc. However I Realise that’s just not the point, the ultimate safety is no registered data, and for those who have this level of concern that is why I developed the completely offline model that you see in the video. This can be provided with a physical card option, with the data of the readings from all the most well known coins.

There will of course be some advantages to being online with an ever growing database, but there is no reason that the cards cannot be updated with this information for physical delivery over time also.

How does that sound?

That sounds great!  Glad that's popped up before and that you've given it thought!

I am very interested in this project. I myself might end up going with the cheaper model if I decide to buy one. I'll have to set a weekly budget aside to save up for one of these. Personally both the models look great and wouldn't mind having either one of them on my desk (although the higher-end brass model is a beaut!). I would be willing to spend between £200-£400 depending on possible variations and options. 

Would be interesting if you'd be willing to accept cryptocurrency as payment? Hopefully soon I'll be cashing-out on some crypto profits?  I've paid the European Mint with their payment processor BitPay who charge 1% of the order amount directly to the customer. Not sure if there are any fees to be paid on the seller's end but would be interesting to look out for if others are interested in the possibility of paying with cryptocurrency  

[stackerp5]

51 minutes ago, EON said:

Anyway, I digress, I’d be interested to get other opinions an whether having the bullion visible is a problem. It does make sense what your saying.

I did get the alchemical symbol bit but that's good word play on Eon! 

I don't have many people home so "bullion" visible wouldn't necessarily be a problem. However, I can imagine how that could be one and can see myself putting it away somewhere depending on who I'd have over.

[ady]

On 16/09/2021 at 16:18, EON said:

Hi Ady,

it might be possible, there are too many unknowns for me to comment. If you post up an example of it working on a different thread, i’d be happy to give my input on the physics challenges.

Fun to think about anyway,

Thanks,

Rory

 

 

Hi Rory,

Apologies for the delayed reply. I am not great in technicalities and have no intention of producing anything similar your pendulum. My thoughts on a different parabola than a true arc of a pendulum would give a longer time for analysis of the sample. Not being physacist I would not know if friction on the fulcrum to on that on a track would be an issue. Like I say it would be someone with technical knowledge above me could explain why my idea not a feasabe idea.

[Silverman2U]

On 15/09/2021 at 13:53, EON said:

Thanks Tn21! Appreciate the estimate.

Hi Pete

There are three products featured in the Video

1. The Gold Coin Tester (offline) 

I am thinking this is a premium model, for those who not only want to test their coins but also want a library piece. 

2. The Gold/Silver  Coin measurement board, these will be made out of anodized aluminium and have a nice finish. And should be affordable to all.

3. The IOT Coin tester, which sends the data over bluetooth or wifi to your account, this would be the more common and affordable model.

I have prices in mind for the three of them based off the manufacturing costs, but i don't want to influence the feedback.

I also have looked into the analysis of the sound the bullion makes using fast fourier transforms, this might be something I incorporate into the model later on.

However the measurement of weight, dimension and conductivity should be sufficient to authenticate any coin or bar from my analysis.

Pete - nice to meet another physics enthusiast the same as myself, Thanks Again for taking the time to comment.

I think we can all agree that the testers are becoming more necessary, its worth checking out the fake coin in the video, these are practically indistinguishable! 

  

 

 

 

It’s nice for me to see some competition in the market place that gives another more affordable option to the hobbyists out there. 
the only somewhat afford option is a sigma metalytics device, since leaving EU and pandemic these device are well above the £1000 mark if you can even get one! 

[stefffana]

9 hours ago, EON said:

Hi Captcaveman 😂

That’s interesting feedback, and I can see why that would be the case.

I guess this doesn’t matter on the board? As you might just store that away.

we could leave the “bullion” off the Back plate on the IOT device.

When stored away both the IOT device and the offline device have a platform the slides over the logo on the base of the testing area. So this “bullion” would not be visible.

We’d keep the EON.

The company is called EON for a few reasons, just to fill you in. The first one is that gold was created EON’s ago

in the collision between two neutron stars, this was discovered in 2017 from the LIGO gravitational wave experiments.

(very nerdy I know, but I guess i’ve Already nailed my colours to the mast)

the second, is the timelessness of gold, as it doesn’t degrade.

The third then is the sustainability of a gold based economy versus the unsustainability of a fiat currency based economy, and of course on shorter time scales it has been the predominant currency for all of history, and may well be again.

Anyway, I digress, I’d be interested to get other opinions an whether having the bullion visible is a problem. It does make sense what your saying.

 

Thanks for that feedback

What about EON 79-47-78, atomic numbers for gold, silver and platinum? 

[EON]

Thanks Stefffana,

    That's probably getting a little too Elon Musk for me 😂

Ady some quick thoughts on your suggested configuration.

A Magnet, even a ball magnet has a north and south pole, the magnetic field lines go from one to the other, when a ball magnet rolls on a surface these poles will spin, the emf is generated by the change in the magnetic flux, or the magnetic field lines across the surface of the conductive body. while eddy currents would be generated in this scenario, they would be chaotic, and depending on where the poles of the magnet were when passing the boundaries of the bullion each time the forces would be different. So the equations I'm pretty sure are chaotic, and therefore have no repeatable solution from one set of oscillations to the next. So from one reading to the next the results may differ.

Other factors would be the friction along the race, which potentially would be effected by electrostatic charge, temperature and humidity. 

the parabolic shape would actually be a disadvantage as the ball would come to rest quicker, and therefore the sensitivity would be less.

So there would be these things to consider.

 

 

 

[greendragon]

hi

can i ask about longevity and maintenance?

I can see there are not a lot of moving parts, but the pivot point has a bearing?

is this sealed for life? does it need regular oiling?

and can replacement parts be fitted if needed? either by the owner or do you offer a repair service?

I am happy to bash wheel bearings out of cars and motorcycles etc, but i imagine these are a little delicate

I imagine all the parts have a very long lifespan, however i would not be happy with the inbuilt obsolescence that new products seem to have 

Very interested in this though, would love to get one of the first ones 

[ady]

13 hours ago, EON said:

Thanks Stefffana,

    That's probably getting a little too Elon Musk for me 😂

Ady some quick thoughts on your suggested configuration.

A Magnet, even a ball magnet has a north and south pole, the magnetic field lines go from one to the other, when a ball magnet rolls on a surface these poles will spin, the emf is generated by the change in the magnetic flux, or the magnetic field lines across the surface of the conductive body. while eddy currents would be generated in this scenario, they would be chaotic, and depending on where the poles of the magnet were when passing the boundaries of the bullion each time the forces would be different. So the equations I'm pretty sure are chaotic, and therefore have no repeatable solution from one set of oscillations to the next. So from one reading to the next the results may differ.

Other factors would be the friction along the race, which potentially would be effected by electrostatic charge, temperature and humidity. 

the parabolic shape would actually be a disadvantage as the ball would come to rest quicker, and therefore the sensitivity would be less.

So there would be these things to consider.

 

 

 

Hi Rory,

Great answer and great science I had not thought about the polarity. Also great insight to the friction issue. I can not agree with you on the parabola. Put a marble in say a fruit bowl, or a champagne flute, with a pendulum true arc inbetween, which marble will roll about longest before coming to rest without an external force? The play offs between these factors would be good for a study, maybe some graduate. Inquiring minds and great debate get us all the advancements we want.