Speechless

[Relm]

@pricha I stand by my opinion.

Clearly we don't share a sense of humour. 

 

How would you class comments such as they deserve it for being greedy, not doing enough research, etc?

[pricha]

3 hours ago, Relm said:

@pricha I stand by my opinion.

Clearly we don't share a sense of humour. 

 

How would you class comments such as they deserve it for being greedy, not doing enough research, etc?

Well obviously some people have far more money to spend than me. From a purely personal point of view with my limited funds  i would not be buying stuff from eBay i know nothing about. I am intrigued who would buy such coins ,  always have been . There seems a few different points of view which is fair enough and understandable . Some people think the buyers are totally innocent people who are scammed out of vast amounts of money (to me) just because all of a sudden they had the urge to buy an extremely rare coin that seemed incredibly cheap. To me that seems totally bizarre  although it could be totally correct. I like to think that people search eBay for bargains, see a very rare coin going cheap, not a single other collector has spotted it (?) and decide to buy without as much as a quick google search.  Therefore my sympathy is not always with the buyer , although i totally agree the seller is a total scumbag who should be banned. I've seen hundreds of these sales over the years, i have always reported them trying to stop someone getting scammed .  I doubt it'll ever end.

[CollectorNo1]

11 minutes ago, pricha said:

Well obviously some people have far more money to spend than me. From a purely personal point of view with my limited funds  i would not be buying stuff from eBay i know nothing about. I am intrigued who would buy such coins ,  always have been . There seems a few different points of view which is fair enough and understandable . Some people think the buyers are totally innocent people who are scammed out of vast amounts of money (to me) just because all of a sudden they had the urge to buy an extremely rare coin that seemed incredibly cheap. To me that seems totally bizarre  although it could be totally correct. I like to think that people search eBay for bargains, see a very rare coin going cheap, not a single other collector has spotted it (?) and decide to buy without as much as a quick google search.  Therefore my sympathy is not always with the buyer , although i totally agree the seller is a total scumbag who should be banned. I've seen hundreds of these sales over the years, i have always reported them trying to stop someone getting scammed .  I doubt it'll ever end.

I agree with you..despite the negative feedback that comes across on this site from others..but that's just human nature..there are always going to be people who disagree with our comments on such things albeit not deserved..cest la vie..I personally ignore these people as they ,not all.... just a few who want to be negative and sometimes abusive...very easy to hide behind a phone screen and give abuse...but just ignore them as we all do....would love a personal one on one with some of these to determine how brave they are face to face..but that won't happen as these negative comments they dish out is their thing...and we are all entitled to our opinions...but would just like to see and speak to these negative self opionated jerks.. who give it the big un on here,on a one to one....

[Relm]

@pricha I don't believe that buyers are "totally innocent" not do I think that they should do zero research into what they are spending money on.  Its just that people seem to have a default of blame the buyer as they didn't xyz and with the variety and varying quality of fakes even "experts" can be fooled. 

[pricha]

I made the point earlier , when you search an item on eBay there is a row underneath that lists similar sponsored items. When you look at this coin the row of similar sponsored items are all gold plated around £3/£4 and are identical to the one listed for £1000 .  Google Gold Sovereign 1841 . The first listing Mr Chard established 1964 . Looks nothing like the one listed (although the seller can't seem to make up his mind if it's a full or half ) . A very rear coin 😄 .  Add it all up .  And people still bid on it. It wasn't my intention to slag people off i was just amazed people would pay good money for it.  I didn't want to sound like some arrogant know all , as i have said before there are some quality counterfeit coins that would certainty fool me.  

Edited July 21, 2021 by pricha

[CollectorNo1]

Well I'm sorry to say....anyone ....experts or newbies cannot be fooled by these 1841 coins..they look like something that you get at Christmas..gold foil incapsulating chocolate...I hope as more and more are listed on ebay which I can see as its just a con.. by a certain seller...we can report them and get them cleared off the site or get the seller banned..we know they are fake but people new to collecting might not know..just hoping they do their research before bidding but if not..more fool them...again I hate seeing people ripped off but can't do anything if they decide to buy them thinking they are genuine 🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺

[CollectorNo1]

10 minutes ago, pricha said:

I made the point earlier , when you search an item on eBay there is a row underneath that lists similar sponsored items. When you look at this coin the row of similar sponsored items are all gold plated around £3/£4 and are identical to the one listed for £1000 .  Google Gold Sovereign 1841 . The first listing Mr Chard established 1964 . Looks nothing like the one listed (although the seller can't seem to make up his mind if it's a full or half ) . A very rear coin 😄 .  Add it all up .  And people still bid on it. It wasn't my intention to slag people off i was just amazed people would pay good money for it.  I didn't want to sound like some arrogant know all , as i have said before there are some quality counterfeit coins that would certainty fool me.  

You don't have to apologise I agree with you..but we can't babysit everyone buying these S#@T knockoffs..sometimes we just have to let people learn from their mistakes how ever hard it is to see people bidding and buying fake c**p..and getting fleeced..😖😖😖😖😖😖😖

[eblend]

7 minutes ago, CollectorNo1 said:

Well I'm sorry to say....anyone ....experts or newbies cannot be fooled by these 1841 coins..they look like something that you get at Christmas..gold foil incapsulating chocolate...I hope as more and more are listed on ebay which I can see as its just a con.. by a certain seller...we can report them and get them cleared off the site or get the seller banned..we know they are fake but people new to collecting might not know..just hoping they do their research before bidding but if not..more fool them...again I hate seeing people ripped off but can't do anything if they decide to buy them thinking they are genuine 🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺

Is it mostly by the same seller?

 

[pricha]

Maybe a regular fake thread to list obvious fakes on eBay would be an good idea. That way if more people keep reporting them then we might achieve something. I say obvious rather than dubious . 

[CollectorNo1]

Yes..someone is selling a range of coins....brass layered with 22ct gold which is BS.

VICTORIAN, GEORGE V,GEORGE III ETC...Although they are advertising as re-strikes they are not gold plated...but now some people are buying them and advertising as the real deal..I suspect they are from Wish/Alibaba....but they seem to be flooding ebay...and some poor sod is going to buy them thinking they have got a real bargain..😳😳🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙂🙂

[eblend]

8 hours ago, pricha said:

I made the point earlier , when you search an item on eBay there is a row underneath that lists similar sponsored items. When you look at this coin the row of similar sponsored items are all gold plated around £3/£4 and are identical to the one listed for £1000 .  Google Gold Sovereign 1841 . The first listing Mr Chard established 1964 . Looks nothing like the one listed (although the seller can't seem to make up his mind if it's a full or half ) . A very rear coin 😄 .  Add it all up .  And people still bid on it. It wasn't my intention to slag people off i was just amazed people would pay good money for it.  I didn't want to sound like some arrogant know all , as i have said before there are some quality counterfeit coins that would certainty fool me.  

The seller lists the "precious metal content" as 3.99gms so I suppose it's supposed to be a half sovereign.

[juansanto7]

On 20/07/2021 at 17:16, BackyardBullion said:

The good news is that the person that won the auction last time evidently didn't pay up and/or was a forum member stepping in to save the day.

Report this item please as well.

Or maybe he has several fakes, and keeps relisting them?

[badar]

1 hour ago, juansanto7 said:

Or maybe he has several fakes, and keeps relisting them?

That is more likely, since they're so cheap. Probably made money on them once and now sees it as an easy cash grab.

Funny thing, on the aliexpress listing for this coin; other than one japanese person, there are 9 positive reviews for this coin by one person from the UK. All from june.

[zxtm99]

11 hours ago, pricha said:

Maybe a regular fake thread to list obvious fakes on eBay would be an good idea. That way if more people keep reporting them then we might achieve something. I say obvious rather than dubious . 

Well here is a fake Pan American 1 oz silver bar being passed off as real: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/304066238085?hash=item46cbc29685:g:HJcAAOSwMstg7waq

 

This is a real one: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/333926297350?hash=item4dbf8eef06:g:iMIAAOSw6QpgVNli

 

Note the radius of the corners, much bigger on the I think is real, and the lettering on the back - big gap between the S of 'Silver' and the edge of bar vs. small gap on the fake.

 

Here is an honest seller: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/352491732426

 

In your hand it is easy to tell - the fakes are 3 mm thick vs. just over 2 mm for the real ones (they are silver plated brass, so thicker to get the weight about right).

 

I'm seeing bars now that have the corner radius correct, but still have wrong gap by the S. Goodness knows if they are fake or real!

[Shep]

Whilst we’re on the subject of conmen, the London Mint Office are flogging high mintage 1911 - 1914 George V Half Sovs like they are a numismatic rarity.

How much you ask? For the paltry sum of £249 you could own one of these fine examples of British history at only a 62% premium over their actual worth.

But wait there’s more!

It comes with a “no quibble guarantee” and free postage. Oh and don’t forget the certificate of authenticity that will be fit only for the purpose of wiping your behind on.

An “ultra rear” opportunity to own a high mintage coin at a “lowe lowe” price I’m sure you’ll all agree.

 

 

https://www.londonmintoffice.org/kg-v-halfsov?Ac=92014311&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI47-e0tX28QIVAzDTCh1j5wrfEAEYASAAEgINgvD_BwE

Honestly it boils my blood when I happen to catch one of their ridiculous adverts filled with hyperbole and nonsense on day time television (clearly targeting the old or those who may not know better).

In my mind these kind of outfits and their snake oil salesmen are little better than eBay scammers themselves.

Edited July 22, 2021 by Shep

[badar]

It's free postage and packing mate, what more can we ask for. 

Also, its a terrible deal considering its not their signature package deal. Seems not to have the small lettered T&C's telling you that you've subscibed to receiving unsolicited coins that will be a hassle and a half to return; which they will invoice you for and send to debt collection because you can hardly contact them for return enquiries.

There are threads and threads of complaints against them on moneysavingexpert, people have complained to Advertising standards and written to BBC; how they're still in business baffles me. They tread the legal lines to be technically legitimate. People shared stories of buying £15000 in coins to find out they're worth about 5-6k. 

[Pipers]

2 hours ago, badar said:

It's free postage and packing mate, what more can we ask for. 

Also, its a terrible deal considering its not their signature package deal. Seems not to have the small lettered T&C's telling you that you've subscibed to receiving unsolicited coins that will be a hassle and a half to return; which they will invoice you for and send to debt collection because you can hardly contact them for return enquiries.

There are threads and threads of complaints against them on moneysavingexpert, people have complained to Advertising standards and written to BBC; how they're still in business baffles me. They tread the legal lines to be technically legitimate. People shared stories of buying £15000 in coins to find out they're worth about 5-6k. 

Thats bad

[LawrenceChard]

6 hours ago, Shep said:

Whilst we’re on the subject of conmen, the London Mint Office are flogging high mintage 1911 - 1914 George V Half Sovs like they are a numismatic rarity.

How much you ask? For the paltry sum of £249 you could own one of these fine examples of British history at only a 62% premium over their actual worth.

But wait there’s more!

It comes with a “no quibble guarantee” and free postage. Oh and don’t forget the certificate of authenticity that will be fit only for the purpose of wiping your behind on.

An “ultra rear” opportunity to own a high mintage coin at a “lowe lowe” price I’m sure you’ll all agree.

 

 

https://www.londonmintoffice.org/kg-v-halfsov?Ac=92014311&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI47-e0tX28QIVAzDTCh1j5wrfEAEYASAAEgINgvD_BwE

Honestly it boils my blood when I happen to catch one of their ridiculous adverts filled with hyperbole and nonsense on day time television (clearly targeting the old or those who may not know better).

In my mind these kind of outfits and their snake oil salesmen are little better than eBay scammers themselves.

While I am often critical of LMO and their parent company Samlerhuset, the advert you posted is almost good value from them, and at least they are offering genuine coins (we presume). 

I class the scammers on ebay as far worse, but I also accuse ebay of being worse, as not only do they host thousands of misleading listing daily, but they do so in the full knowledge of most that is happening on their site, as partly evidence by the slow response to about 20 reports on the 1841 sovereign listing by TSF members. I have reported many listing in the past, but it would probably need to have a vast army of volunteers checking and reporting daily, and even then, I doubt it would change ebay's policies. It would probably require considerable media adverse publicity to get any change. 

Earlier today, we were discussing LMO, and looked at an information page I posted way back in 2006:

https://24carat.co.uk/frame.php?url=londonmintoffice.html

At the time, our page was probably more successful in one respect than we had hoped. If you Googled "London Mint Office" our page showed as the first result.

Unfortunately, we had not counted on the extent of the stupidity of their customers. For several weeks our phone lines were flooded with torrents of abusive tirades from people along the lines of "I've already spent hours on the phone to you trying to get you to stop sending coins to me that I have not ordered. Unless it stops, I am going to report you to Trading Standards, the police, the newspapers..." etc.

When we manage to get a word in during a pause for breath, we would typically try to explain that they had phoned Chard, not the London Mint Office, or sometimes we would ask if they knew who they had phoned. This was inevitably followed by a further tirade of abuse. It seems none of them bothered to read the page we had provided. They Googled London Mint Office, saw our page and phoned us. We tried to help them on the phone, but they would not listen.

Talk about shooting ourselves in the foot!

On a more positive note, some people posted coins to us that they had received from London Mint Office, which I think we threw into a box until anyone enquired about it, which I don't think anyone did.

I have issued similar warnings about ebay on numerous occasions, but have come to the conclusion that it is probably a waste of time and effort. There are some people who it's almost impossible to help.

 

[LawrenceChard]

Fake / Imitation / Replica Krugerrand Bought from Etsy for £50

Somebody sent this to sell to us recently:

While our photos make the "coin" look quite nice, it was surprisingly yellow.

This was our Niton test analysis:

The carat weight works out to 20.95 grams (should be 33.93 grams).

We did not get round to measuring it, but it looked to be exactly the right dimensions for a Kruger.

The results show it was brass. the one thing that surprised me is that there was no indication of gold plating.

The lady who sent it to us did not sound surprised when we informed her it was not a genuine Krugerrand and contained no gold. She told us she had paid £50 for it on Etsy.

So, ebay does not have a monopoly on fakes.

Edited July 22, 2021 by LawrenceChard
typos

[CollectorNo1]

I liked your comments and agree..but I have contacted you many times about different things..but have never had the decency of a reply..I guess this is because you may look at my profile....and do not believe I'm worth replying too..which is OK.. I'm not a member who has alot of feed back etc...I've only just recd the "rising star" medal which to u doesn't mean much..but would be nice to get a reply from you when I post a comment to you?? Again if I'm not worthy of your time I won't bother commenting on your posts...but would it be too much to ask for a reply....e.g asking you about the new Alice in wonderland coin that you bought and I asked what is was like in hand??? I didn't get an answer but its no problem..as compared to you and your experience and knowledge I guess I'm not worth a reply..maybe one day..when I have more experience you might reply to my messages.

Regards.....

[NewCoins]

You probably want to delete that.

[CollectorNo1]

Why??? Its a fact..I'm not bothered to be honest....I talk to people on here and always get a reply..but this person who I realise is an important knowledable  member in the PM world and respect what they say...but is it too much to expect a reply???? When I ask a question, no I don't think so...if I'm wrong so be it...I'm just saying how I feel and if i/we can't say what we feel and try and get knowledge and experience from those who know more..what's the point of asking questions to give people like me more information  and what to look for in the big wide world of PM collecting...? Unless there is a hierarchy  of giving out information to certain members?

[LawrenceChard]

21 minutes ago, CollectorNo1 said:

I liked your comments and agree..but I have contacted you many times about different things..but have never had the decency of a reply..I guess this is because you may look at my profile....and do not believe I'm worth replying too..which is OK.. I'm not a member who has alot of feed back etc...I've only just recd the "rising star" medal which to u doesn't mean much..but would be nice to get a reply from you when I post a comment to you?? Again if I'm not worthy of your time I won't bother commenting on your posts...but would it be too much to ask for a reply....e.g asking you about the new Alice in wonderland coin that you bought and I asked what is was like in hand??? I didn't get an answer but its no problem..as compared to you and your experience and knowledge I guess I'm not worth a reply..maybe one day..when I have more experience you might reply to my messages.

Regards.....

If you are responding to an existing post, it makes sense to use the "Quote" link below the post you are responding to, then everyone knows who you are replaying to and about what.

(And I am not very experienced in using forums).

[CollectorNo1]

Just now, LawrenceChard said:

If you are responding to an existing post, it makes sense to use the "Quote" link below the post you are responding to, then everyone knows who you are replaying to and about what.

(And I am not very experienced in using forums).

Apologies if I come across rude..I've been told by a member of the forum to delete my message to you which I find hilarious as it seems there is a kind of "Freemasons or Illuminati " sect that mere mortals like me are not allowed to ask experienced  precmetals experts like you are not allowed to ask,comment on...( Hope you see the funny side of that)...

Regards.

P.s....Newcoins advised me to delete my post..God knows why. As I was just asking a question..hahaha

[CollectorNo1]

28 minutes ago, NewCoins said:

You probably want to delete that.

I'd like to know why you have asked me to delete my comment..are you themaster of the SILVER FORUM?????? MR CHARD... doesn't seem to have a problem with my post, why should you?????????????