2022 Sovereign design revealed?

[LawrenceChard]

7 hours ago, Britannia47 said:

I wonder if anyone at the RM actually knows about the history of the Sovereign?....... 

Possibly not, I have tried to impart some knowledge on more than one occasion. 😎

[Foster88]

2 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

Possibly not, I have tried to impart some knowledge on more than one occasion. 😎

From reading your previous posts regarding educating The Royal Mint you’d most likely get more sense from one of these three. 😬

 

Side note: donkeys are very gentle and also intelligent animals which is kind of my point. 😆

[LawrenceChard]

9 hours ago, Foster88 said:

From reading your previous posts regarding educating The Royal Mint you’d most likely get more sense from one of these three. 😬

 

Side note: donkeys are very gentle and also intelligent animals which is kind of my point. 😆

They also know when they have gone far enough in one direction, and turn round.

Although they too can be a little stubborn.

These three look familiar, I think they may have overtaken me once, on what I call Blackpool Promenade Congestion Zone.

I was also hoping one of them might have been called "Oatie". 😎

[westminstrel]

13 hours ago, Allgoldcoins said:

2022 Proof Sovereigns and sets I am told due @ Beginning of November.

Oooh near and yet far. 😅

[Britannia47]

On 27/09/2021 at 15:30, westminstrel said:

@Britannia47- I believe 2017 was also the 200th anniversary of the Half Sovereign with its lovely shield design. What a wasted opportunity it was. 

Not really the point, but I agree, Merlen's shield designs are great! 

Here are my 2 shield full sovs. 1929 & 1932.... more elaborate perhaps than Wyons later shield?

 

 

[Britannia47]

Wrong dates!  Sorry, 1829 & 1832

[Stuntman]

Lovely.  The William IV reverse is my favourite shield reverse.

[Britannia47]

22 hours ago, Allgoldcoins said:

Dr. Kevin Clancy - Knows his stuff..

2022 Proof Sovereigns and sets I am told due @ Beginning of November.

Of course there are knowledgeable people at the RM, including Clancy and Dyer. But there is also a lot of expertise outside the RM bubble which never seems to be tapped into. I am reminded of 'Mock the Week' and a hypothetical 'Things you would never hear from the Royal Mint'- eg What is your opinion of our latest sovereign and how can we make it better Mr Chard?! 

As it happens I have Clancy's Book, and Dyers, early editions of Marsh, Duveen/Stride 1962 Gold Sovereign and others, including the whole 2009 sovereign series by Clive King in Coin News, so perhaps I should get a job at the RM!.

 

[SidS]

4 hours ago, Britannia47 said:

Not really the point, but I agree, Merlen's shield designs are great!

That's cos he's a wizard! Sorry...

In all honesty though I love all the Merlen and Wyon collaborations. I think the period from 1825-c.1859 is a real golden age for British coinage.

 The obverse designs are intricate but well balanced, even if say in the case of George IV it looks more like he did in his youth and less like he did by the time he was king. You can't take away from Pistrucci the realism, his George IV looked more like George IV than George IV did, but they don't make attractive coins.

The Merlen reverses have a detailed simplicity about them, not cluttered, but in no way sparse.

I really love the William IV halfcrowns and the Vicky young head reverses. They started going down hill in the 1860s-1880s when the relief was reduced and the designs were reworked by inferior craftsmen.

Edited September 28, 2021 by SidS
Spellings

[Allgoldcoins]

2 hours ago, Britannia47 said:

including the whole 2009 sovereign series by Clive King in Coin News, so perhaps I should get a job at the RM!.

That was a long time ago, we updated the series 2018-2020 in the coin news, here is a link to the updated articles on our website : 

https://www.allgoldcoins.co.uk/pages/knowledge-base

As for poor old JBM he never got the credit for his work which also included the lovely Victoria Shield reverse. I think he only got his initials on the 1823 Two pound coin because Pistrucci didn't want anything to do with it.

[LawrenceChard]

13 hours ago, Britannia47 said:

Of course there are knowledgeable people at the RM, including Clancy and Dyer. But there is also a lot of expertise outside the RM bubble which never seems to be tapped into. I am reminded of 'Mock the Week' and a hypothetical 'Things you would never hear from the Royal Mint'- eg What is your opinion of our latest sovereign and how can we make it better Mr Chard?! 

As it happens I have Clancy's Book, and Dyers, early editions of Marsh, Duveen/Stride 1962 Gold Sovereign and others, including the whole 2009 sovereign series by Clive King in Coin News, so perhaps I should get a job at the RM!.

 

Yes, I am sure that Dr. Clancy is very knowledgeable, and a nice person too. I have only had very brief contacts with him, and I hope to get the opportunity to have discussions with him at some time.

I also have great respect for Graham Dyer, who has a wealth of knowledge and experience, probably rooted in a genuine interest in and love for numismatics.

These two gentlemen, and I use the word carefully, are just two members of the Royal Mint Historical Services team, who staff the Royal Mint Museum. (THE ROYAL MINT MUSEUM, limited company 07105875), and / or THE ROYAL MINT MUSEUM SERVICES LIMITED (Company number 07106468)).

The operational side of the Royal Mint is in the hands of one or more different companies ROYAL MINT SERVICES LIMITED (Company number 00399642), and /or THE ROYAL MINT LIMITED (Company number 06964873).

It is likely that most people are not aware that these are different, but connected, entities.

I believe that most people, including TSF members, are thinking about The Royal Mint Limited whenever they mention the Royal Mint (or RM), even if they, like me, are aware of the Royal Mint Museum, a.k.a. Royal Mint Historical Services or RMHS.

While it seems highly likely that RHMS are consulted on some aspects of coin design, I am sure that the production company is responsible for any final decisions, including marketing, and quality control; it probably can and does ignore or override any opinions of experienced numismatists.

 

[Smiler999]

Getting back on topic, anyone actually know what it looks like apart from the vague description in the Gazzette 

[westminstrel]

13 minutes ago, Smiler999 said:

Getting back on topic, anyone actually know what it looks like apart from the vague description in the Gazzette 

That will be a closely guarded secret by the RM until release day. 

[Zhorro]

1 hour ago, westminstrel said:

That will be a closely guarded secret by the RM until release day. 

And the release date will also be a closely guarded secret!

[RDHC]

On 28/09/2021 at 16:56, Britannia47 said:

Not really the point, but I agree, Merlen's shield designs are great! 

Here are my 2 shield full sovs. 1929 & 1932.... more elaborate perhaps than Wyons later shield?

 

 

Lovely, I agree.  Now for a very mild brainteaser, who will be the first to tell me which bit of these shield never appeared on the Victoria shield coins and why not? I suspect that many will know the answer. No prizes, I'm afraid,  just the minor honour of being the first with the answer. 

As an additional question: why could not Victoria's successors have this bit on their shield coins even if they had had them issued? This is slightly more difficult, but relatively easy once you have the first answer.

[danmc82]

I think its been mentioned before but what sort of prices do we think for the full and half?

[Allgoldcoins]

1 hour ago, RDHC said:

Lovely, I agree.  Now for a very mild brainteaser, who will be the first to tell me which bit of these shield never appeared on the Victoria shield coins and why not? I suspect that many will know the answer. No prizes, I'm afraid,  just the minor honour of being the first with the answer. 

As an additional question: why could not Victoria's successors have this bit on their shield coins even if they had had them issued? This is slightly more difficult, but relatively easy once you have the first answer.

Victoria a women was not entitled to use the House of Hanover Shield, she was the last monarch of the House of Hanover before Edward VII became the first to reign from the House of Saxe-Coburg - I think

[Stuntman]

^^^ I think that's entirely correct (i.e. it's also what I think!) 🙂

[SidS]

Agreed.

[FlorinCollector]

@danmc82 Im going to take a stab at £600 for the full mate. 
 

i remember in 2017. The special Plain sov was £525 when everything else was £475 if my memory is right. 

[RDHC]

1 hour ago, Allgoldcoins said:

Victoria a women was not entitled to use the House of Hanover Shield, she was the last monarch of the House of Hanover before Edward VII became the first to reign from the House of Saxe-Coburg - I think

That is correct. Females could not inherit the  kingdom of Hanover (or Electorate as it had been when George I first brought it to be an addition to the English/Scottish Crown (not including  Ireland  until the early 19th century Act of Union).

[RDHC]

1 minute ago, RDHC said:

That is correct. Females could not inherit the  kingdom of Hanover (or Electorate as it had been when George I first brought it to be an addition to the English/Scottish Crown (not including  Ireland  until the early 19th century Act of Union).

So, well done to Allgoldcoins (and others). But no one has specified the Hanoverian emblem, which is ....?

And why could not, say, Edward VII as a male inherit Hanover?

And, for a final question, which other European Monarchy retained the emblem of Hanover on its coat of arms, in a minor way admittedly, into the 20th century?

[Britannia47]

'White horse of Hanover' appears on the shield  cf 2020 QB. Not sure about the rest.

[Britannia47]

[Robda1986]

3 hours ago, danmc82 said:

I think its been mentioned before but what sort of prices do we think for the full and half?

Given rm of late it'll be 650 queen's 95th was 650 so is the gold standard as well as a couple more I can't remember