2022 Sovereign design revealed?

[westminstrel]

15 minutes ago, ArgentSmith said:

I've just had a bullish thought for once! Am thinking a lot of flippers/collectors will cancel or return these coins/sets given the lead time, difficulty flipping and fomo wearing off etc.

Given the cutoff date of 31/12 presumably any returns will go straight in the pot leaving what remains of the mintage figures in relatively "strong hands"?

Is that a reasonable assumption?

Didn’t someone say that the RM has some dealer willing to buy the lot?

The RM may have a deal with that dealer to give them the remaining of the unsold max mintage after Dec 31.

The RM doesn’t care about selling below max mintage to increase rarity. If they have a confirmed standing order, they’ll be more than happy to fulfil it and meet their targeted profit based on the max mintage being sold.

Edited November 20, 2022 by westminstrel

[westminstrel]

2 hours ago, Touvex said:

And there is a known flaw with the 5 sov, I know of 2 that got a 69 for the same flaw.

Nor that I can afford to purchase this coin, but I’m interested to know what this known flaw is that is common to both coins. Any details?

[FlorinCollector]

I think the good part is the RM taking it off your CC right away now and it not dropping off. So they either need to pay it off in a month or wait till they arrive to try flip but will have paid some interest which will eat into profits.

 

[Frenchie]

13 minutes ago, westminstrel said:

Nor that I can afford to purchase this coin, but I’m interested to know what this known flaw is that is common to both coins. Any details?

I got a PF 69 £5 Pattern Sovereign  (better than nothing  ) and I would also be curious to know the details  

 

Edited November 20, 2022 by Frenchie

[MancunianStacker]

47 minutes ago, FlorinCollector said:

I think the good part is the RM taking it off your CC right away now and it not dropping off. So they either need to pay it off in a month or wait till they arrive to try flip but will have paid some interest which will eat into profits.

 

Thing is I’ve been burnt by RM charging me and not delivering for 6 months on various releases (I cancelled at that point because they still couldn’t give me a date), this affected my decision to cancel my sets too. I’m not paying for something and hoping to receive it again 🤷‍♂️ 

Hopefully they are now on top of these issues for all the other buyers. Fingers crossed 🤞 for all!

[FlorinCollector]

Just now, MancunianStacker said:

Thing is I’ve been burnt by RM charging me and not delivering for 6 months on various releases (I cancelled at that point because they still couldn’t give me a date), this affected my decision to cancel my sets too. I’m not paying for something and hoping to receive it again 🤷‍♂️ 

Hopefully they are now on top of these issues for all the other buyers. Fingers crossed 🤞 for all!

Yes I agree on that point. How long you were waiting for some silver releases and how long some others were also waiting was a complete joke. As long as they turn up January I  will be happy but if I was waiting 6 months I would also cancel. Did you get any discount offered or anything for the wait?

[Paul]

9 minutes ago, MancunianStacker said:

Thing is I’ve been burnt by RM charging me and not delivering for 6 months on various releases (I cancelled at that point because they still couldn’t give me a date), this affected my decision to cancel my sets too. I’m not paying for something and hoping to receive it again 🤷‍♂️ 

Hopefully they are now on top of these issues for all the other buyers. Fingers crossed 🤞 for all!

Selling things you haven't got in stock, may reignite a debate with a certain UK NW well regarded bullion dealer in years gone by.

Some who were perfectly happy with this practice and some the total opposite end of spectrum 

[MancunianStacker]

11 minutes ago, FlorinCollector said:

Yes I agree on that point. How long you were waiting for some silver releases and how long some others were also waiting was a complete joke. As long as they turn up January I  will be happy but if I was waiting 6 months I would also cancel. Did you get any discount offered or anything for the wait?

I didn’t get anything. I complained etc. I got a sorry and a sorry but we don’t know how long you will have to wait etc. 😞 

Hopefully they learnt.

[Touvex]

7 hours ago, AndrewSL76 said:

You know what, it really is a bargain. Check out Coin Cabinet sales recently. Plus, this coming auction on Tuesday there is a set being sold as individually graded (5, 2, 1/2 and 1/4 are PF70 and the 1 is PF69) coins. Current price (with the 6% buyers premium added) is…….

£17,225.00.

That is highly likely to rise as all the coins are currently below the level of previous sales.

In the previous month’s sale a similar graded set went for………..

£26,712.00 (The 5 went for £14,840 with the premium included).

Really hard to say, in my humble opinion, i'd say the price metnioned earlier is about market for the raw set - at 16/17k to cover for risk with grading, few thousand less if wanting to sell urgently and few thousand more if there is a keen buyer.

1 hour ago, westminstrel said:

Nor that I can afford to purchase this coin, but I’m interested to know what this known flaw is that is common to both coins. Any details?

1 hour ago, Frenchie said:

I got a PF 69 £5 Pattern Sovereign  (better than nothing  ) and I would also be curious to know the details  

 

A small spot on the obverse near the Queen's neck on the frosting. Would be interested to hear i yours has it also?

[HerefordBullyun]

[NewCoins]

The reverse must be outstanding.

[westminstrel]

1 hour ago, Touvex said:

Really hard to say, in my humble opinion, i'd say the price metnioned earlier is about market for the raw set - at 16/17k to cover for risk with grading, few thousand less if wanting to sell urgently and few thousand more if there is a keen buyer.

A small spot on the obverse near the Queen's neck on the frosting. Would be interested to hear i yours has it also?

Questions…

I assume this is a “production defect” as it is seemingly affecting multiple coins, right?

And, based on my limited understanding of grading, it is only post production defects that are supposed to reduce the grade of a coin, right?

If so, then why is this flaw causing the coins to get a 69 and not a 70?

[ArgentSmith]

45 minutes ago, NewCoins said:

The reverse must be outstanding.

Well scrutinised for any defects.

[ArgentSmith]

3 hours ago, westminstrel said:

Didn’t someone say that the RM has some dealer willing to buy the lot?

The RM may have a deal with that dealer to give them the remaining of the unsold max mintage after Dec 31.

The RM doesn’t care about selling below max mintage to increase rarity. If they have a confirmed standing order, they’ll be more than happy to fulfil it and meet their targeted profit based on the max mintage being sold.

I forgot about that, is it rumour or legit? If a dealer is underwriting this release I doubt they'd be paying much if anything over spot. Not bullish at all if true.

[Sc391]

On 17/11/2022 at 10:55, CaptCaveMan said:

So day two, currently remaining...

• Quarter: 1,154
• Half: 485
• Sovereign: 3,926
• 3-Coin set: 20
• Piedfort: 167
• 5 Sovereign BU Matte: 174

 

Last Thursday you posted these numbers - if it’s not too much trouble could you please provide an update.  Thanks

[Frenchie]

2 hours ago, Touvex said:

Really hard to say, in my humble opinion, i'd say the price metnioned earlier is about market for the raw set - at 16/17k to cover for risk with grading, few thousand less if wanting to sell urgently and few thousand more if there is a keen buyer.

A small spot on the obverse near the Queen's neck on the frosting. Would be interested to hear i yours has it also?

Thanks, I'll check it

[Paul]

2 hours ago, HerefordBullyun said:

That's not @James32 in the boat, there's no hoover with him

[SheepStacker]

42 minutes ago, Sc391 said:

Last Thursday you posted these numbers - if it’s not too much trouble could you please provide an update.  Thanks

Here you go, numbers in brackets are the stock figures from 2 and 3 days ago:

 

• Quarter: 1134 (1147,1154)
• Half: 437 (469,485)
• Sovereign: 3864 (3914,3926)
• 3-Coin set: 13 (25,20)
• Piedfort: 164 (172,167)
• 5 Sovereign BU Matte: 170 (172,174) 

[ArgentSmith]

4 minutes ago, Paul said:

That's not @James32 in the boat, there's no hoover with him

James at the helm, coming up the rear so to speak.

[James32]

5 minutes ago, ArgentSmith said:

James at the helm, coming up the rear so to speak.

Where do I sign?

[Sc391]

28 minutes ago, SheepStacker said:

Here you go, numbers in brackets are the stock figures from 2 and 3 days ago:

 

• Quarter: 1134 (1147,1154)
• Half: 437 (469,485)
• Sovereign: 3864 (3914,3926)
• 3-Coin set: 13 (25,20)
• Piedfort: 164 (172,167)
• 5 Sovereign BU Matte: 170 (172,174) 

Thanks for the update.  I’m thinking of picking up an extra sov.  Slow now but too historic to think this won’t simmer a bit and then take off.

[Paul]

27 minutes ago, ArgentSmith said:

James at the helm, coming up the rear so to speak.

 

21 minutes ago, James32 said:

Where do I sign?

Bbbrrrrrrrrrrrhhhhhh its not the boats motor, it's @James32 hoover

[jultorsk]

8 hours ago, Paul said:

Depends what starts selling/happening on feebay which looks like absolutely dead the past week 

OT apropos FleaBay there was a curious tidbit in the latest Coin News saying that Robert Parkinson, former Head of Auctions at Sovereign Rarities is moving over  in November to take over management of eBay's Coins and Bullion category for the UK. Says the article: "Robert will be looking after eBay's numismatic community and formulate working strategies for the future of the platform." 

Quote Robert: "I am excited for the new role and look forward to making eBay a more secure platform for numismatic trading."

--

Should be interesting to see if there's going to be a noticeable change!

[SilverMike]

22 hours ago, Taikonaut said:

Its their "flagship" coin they were hoping it would be a sellout in days, they raised the mintage figure by more than 70% in some cases hoping to maximise profit, certainly don't want it sitting around unsold passed summer 2023 well passed Charles coronation in May when RM would be issuing another set to commemorate that event. They did not anticipate the lost of momentum in sales, not that people who bought the Jubliee coins won't buy because clearly many who bought it also ordered the Memorial sovereign, but fringe and first time collectors, many who are not usually financially committed to collecting these but would buy now find they had to tighten their belt and thosee extra high mintage was aim for them.

The RM are more institutional than this imo and if it is the case that they expected it to sell out in days it'll be the first time ever. Historically coins just sit on the website and sell out when they sell out, as has been the case with past sovereigns and everything else (before the pump and dump era of the last 2 years) and these will eventually sell out or the window to purchase will close for all "memorial coins". The RM are always behind the general market trend, it takes them 6-12 months to adjust to the market position / demand where we as collectors do within days, good or bad.

With that in mind, neither do I think the mintages have been set "to maximise profits", more a reaction to how the market was and the demand they anticipated from their data sets of the past 5 yrs or so. Which we know the last 2 was very strange and v.extreme. They simply set the mintages to what they think the market wants (and the price to what it will pay) and will adjust it as they go with their profit expectations levelised across their full range of coins. If these coins had come to market in 2021, they would have all gone within the first couple of hours, irrespective of the mintage. Now obviously not, there are less people buying who's sole intention is to immediately sell.

If on the 2023 release, or more likely the 2024 release (imo) the mintages are lower do we assume they are trying to minimise profits? no, of course not. They are constantly chasing the sweet spot, but they are currently dealing with the same cooling market we were at the beginning of the year

Edited November 21, 2022 by SilverMike

[rlingford]

The fact that these are still available is crazy to me! Looking to pick up one of the proof sovs or half sovs.

I am moving out of the UK in late December, would the best thing be for me to post it to my future address in Canada giving the shipping window of 12 weeks?