Queens beasts set

[dikefalos]

Has someone received an acceptable set, with no spots or scratches on any of the ten coins? I see many disappointed buyers bot not even one satisfied. It's a shame, what the RM QC has did this really beautiful set of beasts.

[Roy]

Perhaps share COA numbers so you'll know if you've received someone else's return

[AppleZippoandMetronome]

Disapointing to read of these failures but not surprising. Like many others who bought the QB 1oz gold proof completer mine had to be sent back multiple times and their inability to get that right has left me no longer wanting to spend money with the RM. As I said in a post earlier in this thread I was online for this release but didn't pull the trigger for a couple of reasons one of which being fears of quality. You can't trust them to get 1 coin right let alone an entire set of 10...

I hope all of you who have got bad sets and are wanting to return wind up with something you are happy with. The RM really need to get their act together.

[Shinus73]

9 out of 10 were fine, but then came Griffin.

[CollectorNo1]

What a bummer..😲😲 but sounds like you have done better than most.....

[TeaTime]

WARNING - unpopular opinion coming.....

All of those people complaining of fibres inside the capsule. It happens, and has always happened. The RM do not place the coins in to the capsule in a vacuum and small fibres will always find their way into the capsule. It is NOT a defect.

Milk spots and a hazy surface will always happen on silver coins - it's the nature of the material and what has, historically, been considered part of the charm of collecting silver. Let's face it - if you keep silver coins for any length of time they will tarnish. Period. Anyone who is not aware of milk-spotting on RM coins must have been living under a rock for the last 20 years.

Scratches, dings and damage on proof coins are considered defects, pretty much everything else is not. 

If nothing else, this thread may at least have one positive outcome - it may deter flippers from buying up all RM new releases to the detriment of genuine collectors....

 

 

[NewCoins]

32 minutes ago, TeaTime said:

WARNING - unpopular opinion coming.....

All of those people complaining of fibres inside the capsule. It happens, and has always happened. The RM do not place the coins in to the capsule in a vacuum and small fibres will always find their way into the capsule. It is NOT a defect.

Milk spots and a hazy surface will always happen on silver coins - it's the nature of the material and what has, historically, been considered part of the charm of collecting silver. Let's face it - if you keep silver coins for any length of time they will tarnish. Period. Anyone who is not aware of milk-spotting on RM coins must have been living under a rock for the last 20 years.

Scratches, dings and damage on proof coins are considered defects, pretty much everything else is not. 

If nothing else, this thread may at least have one positive outcome - it may deter flippers from buying up all RM new releases to the detriment of genuine collectors....

 

 

Not one proof coin I have bought has ever has black fibres inside the capsule like on this set. It might "happen" but that doesn't mean I find it acceptable. Similarly with Milk spots on brand new coins.

Just to clarify if you received a brand new set with those issues, would you be happy?

Edited July 4, 2021 by NewCoins

[NewCoins]

34 minutes ago, TeaTime said:

WARNING - unpopular opinion coming.....

All of those people complaining of fibres inside the capsule. It happens, and has always happened. The RM do not place the coins in to the capsule in a vacuum and small fibres will always find their way into the capsule. It is NOT a defect.

Milk spots and a hazy surface will always happen on silver coins - it's the nature of the material and what has, historically, been considered part of the charm of collecting silver. Let's face it - if you keep silver coins for any length of time they will tarnish. Period. Anyone who is not aware of milk-spotting on RM coins must have been living under a rock for the last 20 years.

Scratches, dings and damage on proof coins are considered defects, pretty much everything else is not. 

If nothing else, this thread may at least have one positive outcome - it may deter flippers from buying up all RM new releases to the detriment of genuine collectors....

 

 

Weren't you worrying about the quality of the bullion you got recently? 

https://www.thesilverforum.com/topic/50819-10oz-silver-britannia/?do=findComment&comment=525813

[GoldDiggerDave]

1 hour ago, TeaTime said:

WARNING - unpopular opinion coming.....

All of those people complaining of fibres inside the capsule. It happens, and has always happened. The RM do not place the coins in to the capsule in a vacuum and small fibres will always find their way into the capsule. It is NOT a defect.

Milk spots and a hazy surface will always happen on silver coins - it's the nature of the material and what has, historically, been considered part of the charm of collecting silver. Let's face it - if you keep silver coins for any length of time they will tarnish. Period. Anyone who is not aware of milk-spotting on RM coins must have been living under a rock for the last 20 years.

Scratches, dings and damage on proof coins are considered defects, pretty much everything else is not. 

If nothing else, this thread may at least have one positive outcome - it may deter flippers from buying up all RM new releases to the detriment of genuine collectors....

 

 

I would not complain or even worry if the RM were charging £600 for the silver £30 for the box and £100 for profit and postage £730-£750 should be about right for the quality of coins they are sending, I’d have zero compliant over any defect but £1,800+ buyers pay for the right to get something of a very high quality and craftsmanship, what we are all seeing in these pictures is a very poor show.   Suppose there’s no right or wrong and people have higher expectations than others.  For me I buy bullion and accept it for what it is for the metal nothing else, when I buy a brand new proof it has to be totally problem free, I’m happy to pay 3/5x bullion price for something of quality.  If it’s not quality it goes back. 
 

No different for diamonds you can get a 1 carat for £600 and some will pay £6000 for a higher quality one.  I would not pay £6,000 for a £600 quality one I’d just be getting ripped off.   You can’t pay a premium for quality you don’t get I value my hard earned money too much so I demand quality for the premium I pay. 

[Rll1288]

I just re-checked my set... and there are no defects, spotting, scratches etc... no guarantee they will all get 70's but I think I will take chance

[NewCoins]

3 minutes ago, Rll1288 said:

I just re-checked my set... and there are no defects, spotting, scratches etc... no guarantee they will all get 70's but I think I will take chance

Good news. Let us know if you do decide to send them and the outcome.

It's an idea I would have considered should the set had been half decent.

It's a great set !

[Rll1288]

9 minutes ago, NewCoins said:

Good news. Let us know if you do decide to send them and the outcome.

It's an idea I would have considered should the set had been half decent.

It's a great set !

Will do... and fingers crossed

[TeaTime]

1 hour ago, NewCoins said:

Weren't you worrying about the quality of the bullion you got recently? 

https://www.thesilverforum.com/topic/50819-10oz-silver-britannia/?do=findComment&comment=525813

Not really. If you read the post it states i was hoping that the haziness doesn't turn into milk spots.....  Because that happens. I wouldn't consider it a reason for sending it back to the RM.

[TeaTime]

2 hours ago, NewCoins said:

Not one proof coin I have bought has ever has black fibres inside the capsule like on this set. It might "happen" but that doesn't mean I find it acceptable. Similarly with Milk spots on brand new coins.

Just to clarify if you received a brand new set with those issues, would you be happy?

I have. My 4 coins silver-proof Portrait of Britain set arrived with toning visible. I didn't send it back simply because that's what happens to silver. It's in the nature of the material and is going to happen either this year, next year or in 10 years - it's inevitable. If there had been visible damage to the flan then they would have gone straight back. Toning (and milk spots) are not damage.

As for fibres in the capsules - it is common to find these and in no way can be considered a defect. More than half of the RM proof capsuled coins i own have either dust (on the older sets) or fibres (in newer sets) in them. These are coins, not medical equipment.

 

[TeaTime]

1 hour ago, GoldDiggerDave said:

I would not complain or even worry if the RM were charging £600 for the silver £30 for the box and £100 for profit and postage £730-£750 should be about right for the quality of coins they are sending, I’d have zero compliant over any defect but £1,800+ buyers pay for the right to get something of a very high quality and craftsmanship, what we are all seeing in these pictures is a very poor show.   Suppose there’s no right or wrong and people have higher expectations than others.  For me I buy bullion and accept it for what it is for the metal nothing else, when I buy a brand new proof it has to be totally problem free, I’m happy to pay 3/5x bullion price for something of quality.  If it’s not quality it goes back. 
 

No different for diamonds you can get a 1 carat for £600 and some will pay £6000 for a higher quality one.  I would not pay £6,000 for a £600 quality one I’d just be getting ripped off.   You can’t pay a premium for quality you don’t get I value my hard earned money too much so I demand quality for the premium I pay. 

And that is the real issue. The RM are taking advantage of the current frenzy for Queens Beasts coins and charging huge premiums for mediocre product.

Genuine collectors who have used the RM for some time are aware that not every coin is going to be a '70'. The advent (and hyping) of secondary grading companies has increased peoples expectations way beyond what the RM are achieving. 

 

 

[Slam]

2 hours ago, TeaTime said:

WARNING - unpopular opinion coming.....

All of those people complaining of fibres inside the capsule. It happens, and has always happened. The RM do not place the coins in to the capsule in a vacuum and small fibres will always find their way into the capsule. It is NOT a defect.

Milk spots and a hazy surface will always happen on silver coins - it's the nature of the material and what has, historically, been considered part of the charm of collecting silver. Let's face it - if you keep silver coins for any length of time they will tarnish. Period. Anyone who is not aware of milk-spotting on RM coins must have been living under a rock for the last 20 years.

Scratches, dings and damage on proof coins are considered defects, pretty much everything else is not. 

If nothing else, this thread may at least have one positive outcome - it may deter flippers from buying up all RM new releases to the detriment of genuine collectors....

 

 

Thanks for this comment, Im still learning about PM and yes I have been living under a rock for 20 years it would seem, . I didn't know of milk spotting until a month after I started this year. However I have come to accept them on bullion products  as they are relatively cheap compared to proof coins, I then realised it was the norm to recieve milk spotted products from a fresh tube. To me I thought with anything when buying brand new I would get a pristine condition product, little did I know this was not the case. Anyhow at a small expense compared to proof coins, I can now near enough accept it but not happy about it.

For proof coins I thought they would be in mint condition, prime condition, the creme de la creme of silver coins. Is this not the case and I should accept milk spots and little blemishes on day one? (The fibres didn't really concern me for some reason, probably because they were not part of the coin)

I understand milk spots might build up overtime and the coin would deteriorate over time, but to expect that on day one of owning a proof coin is abit of a ask for me.

Is my expectation too high for this? 

Greatful for everyones insights on this, good or bad. 👍

Thanks

 

 

 

 

[NewCoins]

47 minutes ago, TeaTime said:

Not really. If you read the post it states i was hoping that the haziness doesn't turn into milk spots.....  Because that happens. I wouldn't consider it a reason for sending it back to the RM.

Just to check would you consider milk spots on a proof coin on day 1 acceptable? 

[kimchi]

I am worried enough about buying one proof coin (especially silver) from the Mint, let alone a set of ten, that takes a brave man or woman indeed imo. This 100% absolutely should not be the case but alas many of us know the Mint too well by now

The ridiculous thing is they sometimes get it SO right. For example I've never had a problem with proof Sovs. I believe it's different departments or 'teams' at fault (perhaps QC only) but that may be another topic.

The really worrying thing on these is the milk spots. That points to a bad batch of blanks (not necessarily for all 300, but there's a fair chance). I'd be nervous about holding a set of these, much less exposing them to greater risk by getting them graded. Milk spots happen, but on quality coins should be very few and far between. I've only ever had one bullion Kook milk on me out of hundreds, for example, and I was shocked to see it, such is Perth's quality. Worse was a proof Libertad in a set, but that was years after production. These should not be turning up milked, or milking after days.

[GoldDiggerDave]

34 minutes ago, TeaTime said:

And that is the real issue. The RM are taking advantage of the current frenzy for Queens Beasts coins and charging huge premiums for mediocre product.

Genuine collectors who have used the RM for some time are aware that not every coin is going to be a '70'. The advent (and hyping) of secondary grading companies has increased peoples expectations way beyond what the RM are achieving. 

 

 

Agree some of what they are producing is mediocre.  Any way my sets are coming next week and I’m crossing my fingers, good/bad or ugly ill post some pictures.

[LawrenceChard]

23 hours ago, Jeffers46 said:

Ok I’ve finally had the chance to look at mine in greater detail. 
 

Not happy at all. There is a scattering of milk spots on 3-4 of the coins.

 

Think positive, that means 6 or 7 of them are good! 🙂

[LawrenceChard]

23 hours ago, Jeffers46 said:

The Lion of England is in a terrible state 

Really?

I thought we had done well beating Ukraine 4-0 last night. 🙂

 

 

 

[TeaTime]

2 hours ago, NewCoins said:

Just to check would you consider milk spots on a proof coin on day 1 acceptable? 

 

Personally i would want a coin that was as close to perfect as possible, but i don't work for the RM quality control department - they obviously think 'milk spots' are acceptable and therefore do not detract from the 'proof' designation.

Perhaps they think that seeing as most of their product will develop 'milk spots' then what's the fuss if they're already on the coins when they send them out ?

It's all down to peoples expectations. In this case those expectations exceed the quality of the product. RM silver coins are known for not being 'perfect' and yet we have people bemoaning the fact that they have bought a RM product that isn't perfect. Seems odd to me. I guess everyone has their own definition of what they expect a proof coin to be.

I would prefer that all proof coins from the RM were of the same standard as other mints but that doesn't look likely to happen as long as they keep selling out (often within hours of going on sale). The only measure of control the public have over quality is to stop buying until it improves. That is unlikely to happen whilst people are buying product with a view to selling on for a huge profit.

 

 

Edited July 4, 2021 by TeaTime
Spelling

[kimchi]

Milk spots or the beginnings of them upon delivery or within a few days are not acceptable on a proof and the Royal Mint fully accept that in my experience, so those should always be returned. Bullion - well it's bullion.

Thinking about it I do wonder if they used the same blanks for these proofs as  the bullion which are notorious spotters too. One would hope proof blanks would be more higher quality, but...it's the Royal Mint... Funny though that e.g. the Oriental Borders Brits are much less prone to milking (none of mine have).

My only 2oz silver Beast is a slabbed MS69 with a lovely large milk spot, I wonder how much it's worth seeing as almost all the others will go the same way one day...

Edited July 4, 2021 by kimchi

[TeaTime]

A silver blank is a silver blank whether it ends up as a proof or as bullion. They're all the same until they are made into coins. The only difference is the die used, the number of times they are struck and how they are handled afterwards.

So why would anyone believe that just because a coin is designated as proof, it would be immune to what is a common issue with all RM silver ?

[kimchi]

40 minutes ago, TeaTime said:

A silver blank is a silver blank whether it ends up as a proof or as bullion. They're all the same until they are made into coins. The only difference is the die used, the number of times they are struck and how they are handled afterwards.

So why would anyone believe that just because a coin is designated as proof, it would be immune to what is a common issue with all RM silver ?

Yes and no, and 'maybe, we just don't know what they use for different releases'. As I said the Oriental Brits don't spot like the straight Brits in my experience, never seen one milked, though I'm sure it happens.

These may well milk in future, that would certainly be my fear. But to arrive milked or showing signs of probable milking starting is a completely valid reason for returns for Proofs - the Mint accept this.