Insecure first buyer

[SilverFlame]

Hello amazing silver forum. 

I've been searching the forum for some time now trying to find hints to my question. And I've only found 2 topics with a similar request. I apologize in case this is a duplicate in any way and admins can delte if need be. 

Part of my question also has something to do with my geografical location, this being Denmark. But my question is. What gold should I buy. I'm looking to spend around 2000eur. Gold stacking and collecting is not a "popular" thing at least not in the open. So advice is hard to come by here. 

I've been looking at bars, and coins. In the coin section I see being European, sovs and britanias seem to be the "cheapest" to come by. But the market for gold here is scares to my knowledge. 

I've been trying to find information about liquidity Ect. But I'm not sure how important that really is because my plans with this is long term, 20+ years. So might be irrelevant. 

But any advice would be much appreciated. 

Kind regards. 

[Stu]

Lots of good dealers in continental Europe. E.g coininvest, metal market Europe,  European mint. Not sure how importing from the UK TO DK would work tax and shipping wise.

Probably better to stick with coins, bars are harder to sell on as more suspect around fakes. If buying purely for investment, buy the cheapest taking into account shipping costs. 

 

 

[Touvex]

If you are new then I would say coins for sure, sovereigns are always a favourite here at TSF as they are easy to sell. If you are not sure what to buy, you really can't go wrong with sovereigns.

The older sovereigns are also very nice and may even gain some numismatic value if you hold on to them for 20+ years - try and buy good condition even if it's bullion - on top of any gold value gain.

I personally stack older sovereigns for these reasons. I also much prefer the looks of them compared to the new cooper look...

Enjoy - you will soon be addicted!

Edited June 7, 2021 by Touvex

[kimchi]

2 hours ago, SilverFlame said:

Part of my question also has something to do with my geografical location, this being Denmark. But my question is. What gold should I buy.

What gold coins does Denmark mint? And what foreign coins are recognised and sell there?

2 hours ago, SilverFlame said:

Gold stacking and collecting is not a "popular" thing at least not in the open.

That may be a very good thing. Do you have coin shops and dealers in your country? You could be one of the first very sensible ones there!

31 minutes ago, Touvex said:

If you are new then I would say coins for sure, sovereigns are always a favourite here at TSF as they are easy to sell. If you are not sure what to buy, you really can't go wrong with sovereigns.

Not sure at all about this advice given where the OP is. Definitely, Sovereigns are one of the most internationally recognised and traded coins, but they fall behind Krugerrands. With the huge uncertainty in the world at present I would not rely on the popularity of what sells best on here, I would rather look to what can be sold from/within Denmark.

@SilverFlame how much research have you done into this?

[kimchi]

I would also look at the coins of neighbouring countries you can drive to with a coin or two in your pocket.

[SilverFlame]

5 hours ago, kimchi said:

What gold coins does Denmark mint? And what foreign coins are recognised and sell there?

That may be a very good thing. Do you have coin shops and dealers in your country? You could be one of the first very sensible ones there!

Not sure at all about this advice given where the OP is. Definitely, Sovereigns are one of the most internationally recognised and traded coins, but they fall behind Krugerrands. With the huge uncertainty in the world at present I would not rely on the popularity of what sells best on here, I would rather look to what can be sold from/within Denmark.

@SilverFlame how much research have you done into this?

Thank you for an in depth analazyz and opinion. I have spent some time now trying to just trawl the market  for sites and stores. There seem to be 2 types of stores. 

1. Big more or less international stores. Who dabble in gold, silver and diamonds. On large scale. They seem to have bars mostly. And the coins they have are some they buy from customers. So the primiums are astronomical. So I found all sorts of coins there USA, UK, EU Ect ect. I personally catagorize them as a kind of pawnshop because they buy ppls stuff cheap and sell expensive. 

2. Collector sites. Denmark Has very few gold coins made and the ones I found were all Niue coins. They are not clearly mint labelled and most have Elisabeth the II on them. But also a few types of the danish kings and Queens. The thing is that all of these are limitid proof coins. Most of them sitting at below 5000 coins minted. This to me showing that the market for them is very small. Most of them are also 1/4 or below. And they are very old early 1900's or earlier. And again astronomical primiums. 

So the market is kind of strange. If I look at sold out coins I find mostly US coins and pandas. So it would seem they are sought after to some extent.

[kimchi]

The Danes have surely loved their gold and silver throughout history? I bet people buy from the European dealers - you have great choice there.

Niue is part of the Commonwealth and their coins are made by the New Zealand mint. Ignore those.

I would go for the most recognisable European gold coins so @Touvex may well be right about Sovs for you, especially as your budget means you will need at least two fractional gold coins anyway. Rather than buy an ounce I would buy six or seven Sovs. Then you can add to them in smaller amounts as you can afford in future. If you do want an ounce and two fractionals (e.g. Sovs) the Completor Queen's Beast is out at the moment with a higher premium, but as long as you get the best price it may be worth more in future.

What are your reasons for wanting gold? It seems maybe you just want the metal itself. If so you can't go wrong with basic Sovs, if you pay a little extra (as already said) there is a chance the value could grow slightly as a coin as well as the metal content.

Do you have import duties or taxes for gold you order from abroad? If so, can you drive to a European dealer or seller on here to collect in person and bring back in your pocket?

Edited June 8, 2021 by kimchi

[SilverFlame]

6 minutes ago, kimchi said:

The Danes have surely loved their gold and silver throughout history? I bet people buy from the European dealers - you have great choice there.

Niue is part of the Commonwealth and their coins are made by the New Zealand mint. Ignore those.

I would go for the most recognisable European gold coins so @Touvex may well be right about Sovs for you, especially as your budget means you will need at least two fractional gold coins anyway. Rather than buy an ounce I would buy six or seven Sovs. Then you can add to them in smaller amounts as you can afford in future. If you do want an ounce and two fractionals (e.g. Sovs) the Completor Queen's Beast is out at the moment with a higher premium, but as long as you get the best price it may be worth more in future.

What are your reasons for wanting gold? It seems maybe you just want the metal itself. If so you can't go wrong with basic Sovs, if you pay a little extra (as already said) there is a chance the value could grow slightly as a coin as well as the metal content.

Do you have import duties or taxes for gold you order from abroad? If so, can you drive to a European dealer or seller on here to collect in person and bring back in your pocket?

Well in sure they did. And yes they bought from european dealers. I'm also "limited" to bullion by post or European mint as examples. 

I will have a look at the queensbeast. And the sovs. With current prices from big retailers like I mentioned I can only pick up 5 thou. Maybe you know of a better place to buy? There are allot of sites but searching them all for the cheapest is time consuming taking shipping and legitimacy in to consideration. 

I started with silver a few years back. And I want to add gold in to the stack other than jewelry. So I have been saving up for a short while to pick up at least 1oz to start with. And with silver primiums being so high I am looking to add gold continously. So I am trying to find the coin that suits my budget and interest. It would also serve as a hedge against inflation and in these times against negative interest rates on Fiat in the bank. Also why liquidity could be a factor. But I will try to avoid having gold as a short term thing. 

 

There are no taxes or vat on gold here. So I could go to any European dealer or country to buy it and take it home. 

[kimchi]

6 minutes ago, SilverFlame said:

I'm also "limited" to bullion by post or European mint as examples.

Is that because they are the only ones to ship to Denmark? What about Royal Mint Bullion?

So there are no import taxes for you? Very good!

It sounds like you can afford one ounce Beast Completor (available at Atkinsons of London or Chards at the moment, perhaps the Mint too) and one Sov.

As you plan to just buy and hold for a long time, but economic troubles may occur very soon, I would agree with @Touvex and say Sovs.

1/10th coins (e.g. Britannias) carry far too high a premium unless you can find a bargain.

Chards secondary market Sovs are sometimes very nice ones some people say (which may have a little collectable value or gain some in the future), or you may just wish to buy new ones (which won't).

Let us know what you decide and good luck!

[sixgun]

i think i would be guided by what is happening in Germany. There are lots of coin shops over the border. Stick to coins. Take a look at https://gold.de which is a good price comparison site for Germany.

There are Danish gold coins from the past. You might like to collect these.
https://www.bullionbypost.co.uk/world-coins/danish-kroner/20-kroner-danish-gold-coin/

If people do not appear keen on gold in Denmark you might find to buy and sell is better in Germany. Coins from the major mints are usually at better prices and widely recognised. i would be guided on what represents good value in the German online coin shops. If it is good value, then there is likely demand and a liquid market. Steer clear of bars - they are not as trusted as coins - too easy to fake.

 

[SilverFlame]

Might just have struck a bit of luck. Found a guy locally selling 2x Krugerand 1oz for 2690eur... Just need to make sure they are real. 

[dicker]

Hi @SilverFlame

I am a Brit employed by a Danish company - before Covid, I spent most of my time in Copenhagen.

It sounds like you are after bullion - in my travels around Copenhagen, I have found the best place to be https://tavex.dk/ for bullion type coins.

It is > 1 year since I have been to CPH and things do change.  I know it is 'obvious' but do take a look at the premiums before you go - when I went, there were some significant differences in the premiums that I found surprising. i.e. Sovs on the day I visited were not the lowest premium coin.

Much more specialised is https://www.hafniacoins.dk I wouldn't go there unless you are into buying numismatic coins (not to start off with anyway).

Tak

Dicker

 

 

[stefffana]

Hi, @SilverFlame,

The cheapest price per gram seems to be (looking on Tavex.dk ) for Dansk 10 Kroner bullion coin https://tavex.dk/guld/dansk-10kroner-christianx/. The price per gram pure silver content is DKK 378.78/g) cheaper even than 1oz gold bullion Philharmonic (DKK 396.92/g) and 100g Valcambi (DKK 389.48/g).

In my opinion for you is the best option, being a good price/gram and small/affordable (4.48g, .900 purity). Easy to buy, and for sure easy to sell.

Another very good option is Dansk 20 kroner bullion coin https://tavex.dk/guld/dansk-20-kroner-frederik/ with the same price per gram as 10 kronen. But I'd buy the smaller one, being a kind of fractional gold at the same price. 

Cheers!

Stefan.

[SilverFlame]

29 minutes ago, stefffana said:

Hi, @SilverFlame,

The cheapest price per gram seems to be (looking on Tavex.dk ) for Dansk 10 Kroner bullion coin https://tavex.dk/guld/dansk-10kroner-christianx/. The price per gram pure silver content is DKK 378.78/g) cheaper even than 1oz gold bullion Philharmonic (DKK 396.92/g) and 100g Valcambi (DKK 389.48/g).

In my opinion for you is the best option, being a good price/gram and small/affordable (4.48g, .900 purity). Easy to buy, and for sure easy to sell.

Another very good option is Dansk 20 kroner bullion coin https://tavex.dk/guld/dansk-20-kroner-frederik/ with the same price per gram as 10 kronen. But I'd buy the smaller one, being a kind of fractional gold at the same price. 

Cheers!

Stefan.

Thank you for this observation. Sadly they are not in stock right now. But I will look more actively for them. 

[27carrots]

1/2 oz noah's ark.

5% over spot.

We can't even buy these in the uk.

https://www.geiger-edelmetalle.de/en/online-shop/noahs-ark-armenia-oz-gold-coin.9999-28908.html?c=193

[stefffana]

23 minutes ago, 27carrots said:

1/2 oz noah's ark.

5% over spot.

We can't even buy these in the uk.

https://www.geiger-edelmetalle.de/en/online-shop/noahs-ark-armenia-oz-gold-coin.9999-28908.html?c=193

Very good one, indeed! You have eagle eyes!😁

[SilverFlame]

12 hours ago, 27carrots said:

1/2 oz noah's ark.

5% over spot.

We can't even buy these in the uk.

https://www.geiger-edelmetalle.de/en/online-shop/noahs-ark-armenia-oz-gold-coin.9999-28908.html?c=193

I can see I have allot of learning to do. Scouting for coins. Learning all the different markets. Ect ect. That is gonna take some time. Your work and advice is very much appreciated. And I think I will actually buy one of them now. 

[SilverFlame]

And now I see there is a 29eur shipping cost. So that I also need to look at. 

 

Because buying a 1/2 brit at 835 would be cheaper. But the other coin might be more rare I guess?? 

 

Non the less I made my first jump in to gold. And I have now ordered one. ☺️

Edited June 10, 2021 by SilverFlame

[silenceissilver]

On 08/06/2021 at 11:41, sixgun said:

i think i would be guided by what is happening in Germany. There are lots of coin shops over the border. Stick to coins. Take a look at https://gold.de which is a good price comparison site for Germany.

There are Danish gold coins from the past. You might like to collect these.
https://www.bullionbypost.co.uk/world-coins/danish-kroner/20-kroner-danish-gold-coin/

If people do not appear keen on gold in Denmark you might find to buy and sell is better in Germany. Coins from the major mints are usually at better prices and widely recognised. i would be guided on what represents good value in the German online coin shops. If it is good value, then there is likely demand and a liquid market. Steer clear of bars - they are not as trusted as coins - too easy to fake.

 

Just wanted to post something similar. I would look into Danish 10 or 20 Kroner, Krugerrands and Philharmonics and possibly Sovereigns, if I was in Denmark. 

Krugerrands are the most popular bullion coins worldwide (40% market share according to one big German dealer), Philharmonics are very popular on the European continent (but there might be huge differences between different countries, thus I would check it for Denmark, first) and Sovereigns are also a big deal internationally but again, I would check to which extent this might apply for Denmark. According to another big German dealer, outside of the UK and within Europe they are more popular in Southern Europe. German Marks usually have a bit of a premium but Swiss 20 Franks (Vreneli) often don't and they are also popular in Germany - and thus maybe also in Denmark? - Again, something that would need to be checked.

Size wise, if it's Krugerrand or Philharmonics, with that budget, I would go for quarter ounces. I think they are the most popular size after one ounce (murch more than e.g. half an ounce) and you don't have everything in one or two pieces.

The dealers listed on this German comparison site have all been checked for being trustworthy dealers and give you a good reference for what you should pay - also in Denmark.

[SilverFlame]

So I went i lille overboard after getting the taste for shiny gold. 

And this is what I ended up getting in a month. 

1x 1oz gold Buffalo 2021 

1x 1/2oz Armenian noah's ark

2x gold sovereigns 

The sovs are a funny story. As I went to pick up the Buffalo, I asked the store about sovs. He said he had some. So I asked for a price. He said 10% over spot. Then he put in a "but". If I was to buy 2x sovs he would throw in something special. So what I ended up getting was 2x sovs the 1 being a 1890 and the something special was an 1883 sov. Selling me both at a total of 770eur. 

Looking at the prices in general for the 1883 I accepted in a calm but fast way. 

Very Very happy

[27carrots]

Very jealous of the noah's ark in its pretty case. It's got the same diameter as a 1oz gold maple too at half the cost. Can't wait till we can buy them.

[SilverStorm]

Nice pickup congrats