Capital Gains Tax on Foreign Coins

[HighlandTiger]

We are all aware that CGT is not applicable to UK legal tender coins, (I wonder if HMRC's definition of legal tender is the same as the RM's  ), which is why Sovs and Brits are promoted heavily in the UK as investment items. But I was wondering if for all intents and purposes a lot of European gold and silver coins are also exempt from CGT.

It appears that providing the foreign coins are demonitised, which means in Europe any non Euro coins, (I'm thinking of German gold marks and French and Swiss gold francs) they are classed as chattels and personal property. And you only pay CGT if you sell a coin for over £6000, and unless it is particularly rare, or gold or silver not only goes to the moon but heads off to Pluto, that is never going to be an issue. 

This article seems to back up my thinking, just wondering if anyone had any thoughts on this. It seems to me that buying old French and German gold coins, seems to be a better bet that buying Krugerrands or American eagles, when considering tax implications in the future.   

http://www.taxation.co.uk/taxation/articles/2010/11/03/21227/all-glistens

The exemption only applies if the gold coins are UK sterling currency and is derived from TCGA 1992, s 21(1)(b) which states that sterling currency is not an asset for capital gains tax purposes.

This therefore means that the exemption is limited to Sovereigns minted after 1837, plus Britannias (see HMRC’sCapital Gains Manual at CG78308).

The purchase and sale of other gold coins would be treated as chattels if they are not currency of the issuing country. This means that the chattels exemption of £6,000 per coin would apply, or marginal relief if the proceeds were greater.

Paragraph CG76882 confirms that HMRC do not normally regard a collection of coins as a set and hence one would consider disposals on a coin-by-coin basis.

Krugerrands, like Sovereigns, are currency. Since they are currency and are not sterling, they are not treated as chattels and as a result the foreign exchange gain or loss is fully subject to capital gains tax.

 

[Bumble]

Paragraph "CG78305 - Foreign currency" states: "Coins are to be regarded as currency only if they are legal tender at the time of their acquisition or disposal. Coins which are currency but not sterling, for example Krugerrands, are chargeable assets." I think the important part here is the at the time of their acquisition or disposal part. Demonetized coins that you acquire now will not count as currency and so should be treated as general chattels.

[HawkHybrid]

what about newly minted austrian ducats?

I ask this cos most non currency coins have

a finite supply.(they are not minted anymore)

 

HH

[HighlandTiger]

Is Austria still minting Ducats?

[sovereignsteve]

I think so, sure I've read it somewhere. All dated 1915

[JB3]

Really? They mint the ducat and the phil?

Oh yeah, checked. Seems you are right.

[sovereignsteve]

"Ducats were issued by Austria in 1612, and probably earlier. The last regular issue of ducats was in 1914. All the ducats dated 1915 are restrikes, of which there were 996,721 struck between 1920 and 1936. One ducat coins dated 1915 are still being produced by the Austrian Mint as official restrikes"

From: https://taxfreegold.co.uk/austrianducatsinfo.html

although I've no idea when this was written, some of their pages are quite old.

same on the 4 ducat page too

[HawkHybrid]

I think there was a design update maybe 2015 when

coininvest were listing some as 'new' ducats?

 

HH

[Pipers]

I have 9 Ducat 1 restrikes,

 only because they were the cheapest coin at the time. 

 

[Pipers]

What about my old French and  Swiss money? 

[HawkHybrid]

aren't swiss francs still used as the currency of the issuing

country?

 

HH

[HighlandTiger]

9 hours ago, HawkHybrid said:

aren't swiss francs still used as the currency of the issuing

country?

 

HH

Oooh yeah you're right.

Ok, it's down to French, Luxembourg and Belgian gold francs, Austro Hungarian Corona, Austria Schilling, Italian Lire, Dutch Guilders, and German / Prussia / Bavaria etc, marks that seem to fit the criteria for definitely being CGT free.  Unless anyone can think of any others.