oh this hobbies so frustrating

[craig12]

silver stacking , how can a precious metal be so confusing ,  i must admit firstly that i do have buyers remorse , and do find making a decision hard ( the main reason for this is the added vat )   if there was no vat this would be so much easier ,    take tonight for instance   ive around £100 spare  and im flipping from website to website  1 oz bar   britts  pandas , etc etc  some £15 oz some £15.50 some £14,80  if it wasnt for the vat  im sure wed look at buying much quicker  but with this goverment , every penny spent in vat  gets you thinking , what if i dont buy the britts and settle for the  noahs ark ive saved a few ££££  arghhhhhhhhhh  does anyone else have this dillema with silver or do you just buy what you like   and forget the premium  and vat    remeber im not a flipper on e bay  

regards craig

[craig12]

take this product for instance  5 oz prey bar  scottsdale  love it love it love it   oohhhhhhh £17.50 oz   dont want one anymore  thats 70% more than spot 

[watchesandwhisky]

No buyers remorse here, any paper "losses" I see as an education and education costs. 

I really cant understand why VAT is an issue though, I know you like your bars and that's fair enough. But VAT isn't an issue simply order coins from Germany.

Bars + VAT or Coins without would seem an easy choice really.

[Danny-boy]

I don't get the VAT thing either. Just don't pay it.

You get £100 and want an instant fix. Wait a while, you'll get a deal come along.

On this forum, just this week, there have been listings for silver below STG price.

Craig, I do think it's best you invest elsewhere than physical silver. Why not allocated if vat bothers you so much?

And as for comparing your purchase price to spot, don't stress. The eBay buyers that pay £16+ don't, and that's where you'd be selling. Unless you sell to a dealer, which would be a bit daft.

Keep your cash and pull the trigger when a deal comes along.

[Vern]

I look at it this way.... I would rather not pay vat but if I wanted a silver bar for a long term hold I would prefer to pay vat while prices are low.  

At the end of the day just do what's right for you.

Never take advice from me about vat 

[lightjaw]

Just buy what you like, ignore the vat and enjoy it as a hobby that leaves you with a little something at retirement. All stress disappears then and you can enjoy it.

[mr-dead]

Just buy a half sov, no worry about the VAT then

[whitesands1]

......... Ay yes, but what about the Gold:Silver ratio?

[kfisheredm]

This maybe a silly question. Is there VAT/GST/Local sales tax on purchases of Precious Metals? Where I live (Canada), there is no sales tax on the purchase of pure precious metals, but I have to pay tax on anything that is not at least .999

 

[HelpingHands]

7 minutes ago, kfisheredm said:

This maybe a silly question. Is there VAT/GST/Local sales tax on purchases of Precious Metals? Where I live (Canada), there is no sales tax on the purchase of pure precious metals, but I have to pay tax on anything that is not at least .999

 

Yes in the UK the dealers have to add 20%VAT on top.  That's why we try to buy from other EU countries.

 

No VAT on gold though.

[Stu]

If you want to collect silver, in any of its forms and appreciate the pieces that is fine. I am a stacker and although looking to get the best price  per oz, with the possibility of some semi numi coin to increase in resale value, I do not see +50% over spot as a big deal at current prices. If I did not believe silver will go above its previous high, and then some, I would not be stacking at all currently.

The one point that does make me question my position however is that I wonder what my view would be if I had started to get interested in silver in 2011 at its high. My initial thoughts are that I would have declined to invest as it was at a high point however I am not so sure I would not have been taken along by the crowd mentality particularly dare I say, if a member of a Silver forum at time. I am only glad that I have been interested In silver over the past 18 months. Or should that be, why was I not interested in gold and silver in 2000. ( too busy partying with my fiat in shity night clubs)

[SilverPirate]

4 hours ago, Stu said:

 I wonder what my view would be if I had started to get interested in silver in 2011 at its high. 

 That was me, i got caught up in the hype and the You Tube silver pumpers, i have kept buying and brought my average down from £33 to £17.58 an oz.I bought a silver bar above my average the other day just because i liked it sod the average sometimes. 

I envy the newbies,get on the Silver-To-Go web site and buy there for your VAT free silver, That might be a loop hole closed at a later point.If its oz's stacked that is your target get stacking.While you can. 

  Here is some VAT free silver. Top coin is a 10oz.

[JB3]

STG and other European coins are nearly VAT-free, but not totally. And you have to pay postage. All told, though, tends to be cheaper than paying full VAT from UK dealers, if silver is to be your choice.

 

For me though, the premium, plus the marginal VAT, plus the postage still makes the 'in-my-hand' price too high a multiple of spot. Usually at least 1.3x unless you are buying in bulk. Meanwhile, you can get even small amounts of gold at about 1.05x spot, delivered.

 

You pays your money, you takes your choice!

[sovereignsteve]

11 hours ago, whitesands1 said:

......... Ay yes, but what about the Gold:Silver ratio?

The GSR is not sacrosanct, they are not joined at the hip. Just because it has been well below what it has been recently, does not mean it will ever go there again or it will ever revert to the mean. They are two  different metals with different uses. If these uses change over time, the mean GSR will shift.

[HighlandTiger]

11 hours ago, whitesands1 said:

......... Ay yes, but what about the Gold:Silver ratio?

Ah but what if the GSR ratio is changing and will never go back to historical levels, and the current figure is the lowest you will see for the next 50 years

[Stu]

2 hours ago, SilverPirate said:

 That was me, i got caught up in the hype and the You Tube silver pumpers, i have kept buying and brought my average down from £33 to £17.58 an oz.I bought a silver bar above my average the other day just because i liked it sod the average sometimes. 

I envy the newbies,get on the Silver-To-Go web site and buy there for your VAT free silver, That might be a loop hole closed at a later point.If its oz's stacked that is your target get stacking.While you can. 

  Here is some VAT free silver. Top coin is a 10oz.

That is a good average considering when you have bought SP. With further time with a low spot price there will hopefully be the opportunity to bring it down further. 

[Vern]

The gold silver ratio that I look for is the rgsr or real gold silver ratio (physical metal) and in GBP it is sitting at approx 64 today. 

Odds are that the gsr will close again over time, how much time? who knows ( It could go to 80 or 100+ first, I have no idea ) But either way keep an eye on the rgsr and position yourself accordingly.

 

[craig12]

i suppose it all comes down to this dosent it    is a 5oz  prey bar at nearly £85  expensive at this MOMENT IN TIME ..  is it way too much / is it a steal / is that just plain stupid / is that peanuts/  with so many analysts thinking what silver should be  as a ratio to pulling it out of the ground , who knows if im being fleeced , i doubt silver is going to the moon , but if there is a financial crisis like 1931 its going one way or the other  ........oh and by the way i still dont think ive ever had my question answered ive posted a couple of times 

 

if paper trading  shorts  etfs  call em what you will  manipulates the price of silver down    and there is no evidence of this practice stopping in the nr future ...............................................................how can silver ever rise?

[JB3]

32 minutes ago, Vern said:

The gold silver ratio that I look for is the rgsr or real gold silver ratio (physical metal) and in GBP it is sitting at approx 64 today. 

Odds are that the gsr will close again over time, how much time? who knows ( It could go to 80 or 100+ first, I have no idea ) But either way keep an eye on the rgsr and position yourself accordingly.

 

Indeed. If you are talking about the cost of a single ounce of delivered physical gold vs a single ounce of delivered physical silver, I make the ratio about 1:40 at present.

 

That changes as the volume bought goes up but it has to be remembered that silver is relatively bulky to ship and / or is taxed.

 

[Stu]

3 hours ago, craig12 said:

 

 

if paper trading  shorts  etfs  call em what you will  manipulates the price of silver down    and there is no evidence of this practice stopping in the nr future ...............................................................how can silver ever rise?

The bullion banks/ powers that be would have to lose control of the markets for true price discovery to happen. There are hundreds of claims for silver for every physical oz sitting in the comex, available for delivery. They can create as many future contracts as they want as long as nobody actually asks for it and they settle the contract in cash. When everyone starts to request the physical metal for whatever reason, economic collapse, smell of blood, fear, the comex will default and the real price will become known. How long this will take and to what extent the price will rise is anyone's guess. Can they keep a lid on it forever? I would say no, but you may have to hold your shinny for a good few years yet Craig. 

[HawkHybrid]

5 hours ago, craig12 said:

i suppose it all comes down to this dosent it    is a 5oz  prey bar at nearly £85  expensive at this MOMENT IN TIME ..  is it way too much / is it a steal / is that just plain stupid / is that peanuts/  with so many analysts thinking what silver should be  as a ratio to pulling it out of the ground , who knows if im being fleeced , i doubt silver is going to the moon , but if there is a financial crisis like 1931 its going one way or the other  ........oh and by the way i still dont think ive ever had my question answered ive posted a couple of times 

 

if paper trading  shorts  etfs  call em what you will  manipulates the price of silver down    and there is no evidence of this practice stopping in the nr future ...............................................................how can silver ever rise?

you are asking the wrong questions(it's an irobot thing )

ask yourself: will I be able to buy a similar bar for less at a

later date? does it matter if I buy something slightly

different? YOU are the only one that can answer these

questions.

consider a set of criteria's for silver as an investment and

silver as a hobby. when a situation ticks all the boxes, act

accordingly. review/refine your criteria's once in a while.

 

silver has risen (£) 7 out of the last 9 weeks (spot competition

results) maybe there are limits/cycles in the manipulation?

 

HH

[4Nines7Hills]

10 hours ago, Vern said:

The gold silver ratio that I look for is the rgsr or real gold silver ratio (physical metal) and in GBP it is sitting at approx 64 today. 

Odds are that the gsr will close again over time, how much time? who knows ( It could go to 80 or 100+ first, I have no idea ) But either way keep an eye on the rgsr and position yourself accordingly.

 

@Vern how did you calculate the real gsr ..are you including VAT , which can avoided  or just difference in premiums .  Obviously the premiums are higher on silver than gold 

[Vern]

20 minutes ago, 4Nines7Hills said:

 

 

20 minutes ago, 4Nines7Hills said:

21 minutes ago, 4Nines7Hills said:

@Vern how did you calculate the real gsr ..are you including VAT , which can avoided  or just difference in premiums .  Obviously the premiums are higher on silver than gold 

My dealer worked it out for me, I hold those cards close to my chest. Shared pretty much everything else. 

 

[SpainStacker]

13 hours ago, HighlandTiger said:

Ah but what if the GSR ratio is changing and will never go back to historical levels, and the current figure is the lowest you will see for the next 50 years

Whilst I agree with your comment I was more taken by your Leave the EU tagline. Always a pleasure to see a kindred spirit.

I am sure you won't object if I copy it?

[HelpingHands]

1 hour ago, 4Nines7Hills said:

@Vern how did you calculate the real gsr ..are you including VAT , which can avoided  or just difference in premiums .  Obviously the premiums are higher on silver than gold 

For a real GSR you can always find the cheapest oz of gold and the cheapest oz of silver.

Just a quick search so there may be cheaper out there but....

http://goldsilver.be/en/1-oz-30-gr/260-1-oz-silver-bull-bear-caveat-emptor-vendor.html

~£11.02 per oz

https://www.coininvest.com/en/gold-coins/maple-leaf/1-oz-maple-leaf-gold/

~£806 per oz.

That's about 73-1.

 

@4Nines7Hills