Selling silver back to a German dealer. Will I or dealer have to pay VAT/import duties?

[Guest]

I bought some silver (around €4k) a few years ago from a German dealer. Reluctantly, I have to get rid of this silver. Even accounting for shipping costs, I would get a higher return if I sold this silver back to the German seller. I am a private seller and not a business seller, but the dealer obviously is.

What I don't understand is if either I or the dealer will have to pay VAT and/or any duties for each transaction. I am not sure if I am going to sell the lot in one go or in instalments. Thanks in advance.

[BullionBob]

Would you not get a higher price advertising on this forum compared to a dealer?

[Arganto]

I would have thought most definitely. Even if you split it into relatively big chunks they will sell if priced well. I can't see how you could lose if you priced it with a premium which you won't get selling to a dealer. Saves the hassle of sending through the Brexit border quagmire also.

As to your question OP you shouldn't be liable for any taxes selling it to a European buyer. The buyer would normally pay the applicable taxes when it lands over there, but if they are a business they may have schemes to work with. They will know about this so ask them to clarify for peace of mind. Ensure your paperwork is complete and legit to save you any potential headaches.

What sort of silver are we taking about?

Edited May 10, 2021 by Liam84
Correct autocorrect

[sixgun]

If you send it to Germany you might claim you are returning the goods but i expect the dealer would be faced with customs VAT. As the seller you don't pay VAT, it is the buyer but the buyer may factor this into the price you are offered.

If i were you i would sell the silver on the forum. i find it hard to believe you won't get a better price.

What coins / bars are we talking about?
 

Edited May 10, 2021 by sixgun

[Pete]

Most dealers that I know and checking many popular ones in Germany, it would really surprise me if you get a good deal.
Lucky to get spot.

Sell on this forum as I haven't seen anyone advertise fine silver for spot or even close to spot.
Good priced silver sells almost instantly.

As we are no longer in the EU all goods are subject to taxes in the country receiving the goods and I believe VAT is 19% in Germany so your buyer will likely deduct this from your settlement. Trading at the moment is fraught with headaches and arguably there should not be any taxes but the authorities are not on your side at present as they try to figure out the fine print.
 

[kimchi]

Not sure about the VAT but Shadowstack on Youtube has sold popular coins back to dealers at a premium (albeit not top private sale prices) many times.

[Guest]

It would be my first sale and I don't feel comfortable selling to a private that I don't know personally and that I would have no legal protection from in case the payment goes belly up.

[sixgun]

14 minutes ago, savoyard said:

It would be my first sale and I don't feel comfortable selling to a private that I don't know personally and that I would have no legal protection from in case the payment goes belly up.

A few weeks ago i sold some 1 oz silver coins and 1 oz gold. These were a friend's coins. They aren't a member of the forum. They had asked me what a decent price was and what they had been offered by a dealer. i said they could do better on TSF, so i sold them on their behalf.

i hadn't sold before but i had bought many times. i had a good trading reputation on that basis. I'm not going to diddle anyone - i value the forum membership too highly.

The rules of engagement should be

You put up decent photos and describe the goods honestly and exactly - if they have some milk spot, then you say so and show it. No-one can then come back to say you mis-sold items.
You receive the payment before you send the silver.
Do bank transfer.
You package the coins well - proper secure. To be ultra safe you should video the packaging and presentation at the post office.
You send the silver registered post only.
You sell to members who have a decent trading record.

Now your issue is you have no trading record. BYB has offered to act as an intermediary. If there are going to be multiple sales then you might use him for the first sale or two and then once you have a record then you might be able to go solo.
The other way is to send and receive the cash after your buyer has received the goods. If you sell to let's say longstanding members - someone like me, i would say you are safe to do that.  

[Arganto]

24 minutes ago, savoyard said:

It would be my first sale and I don't feel comfortable selling to a private that I don't know personally and that I would have no legal protection from in case the payment goes belly up.

The majority of payments on TSF are made using Bank Transfer or PayPal friends and family. The risk is with the buyer, which is why it's often asked that sellers take pictures with a note showing their username, the date etc to show they have what's being advertised in their possession. If you get the currency transferred into your account it's the buyer that has taken the risk. I don't know of a way that a Bank Transfer can be reversed, if there is a way it would be an unusual process and as far as I know it's never happened on TSF.

[sixgun]

1 minute ago, Liam84 said:

The majority of payments on TSF are made using Bank Transfer or PayPal friends and family. The risk is with the buyer, which is why it's often asked that sellers take pictures with a note showing their username, the date etc to show they have what's being advertised in their possession. If you get the currency transferred into your account it's the buyer that has taken the risk. I don't know of a way that a Bank Transfer can be reversed, if there is a way it would be an unusual process and as far as I know it's never happened on TSF.

Correct the risk is with the buyer - unless the buyer is a total crook who claims the goods never arrived (use registered post - video packaging the items) or they were fakes (there are stories from @SilverStan). This sort of skulduggery isn't something i have actually come across on TSF which is one of the reasons i have bought much of my treasure on TSF. 

[Arganto]

If you really don't want to sell on the forum then it's your preference. You will lose out considerably with the amount you receive though.

I would think you'd be better off financially and time-wise selling to an established UK bullion dealer over an EU outfit in the current climate. Call them (Chards, Bairdmint etc, there are lots!) and ask rather than relying on the guide prices given for things on websites; some silver is more desirable than other silver.

[sixgun]

41 minutes ago, savoyard said:

It would be my first sale and I don't feel comfortable selling to a private that I don't know personally and that I would have no legal protection from in case the payment goes belly up.

If you use bank transfer, how will it go belly up?
Your issue selling here is you do not have a trading record for potential buyers to refer to. The risk is squarely with the buyer, you have the cash before the goods leave your hands. 

Edited May 10, 2021 by sixgun

[sixgun]

There is another option - i see you have yourself down as West Midlands.

When i was in that neck of the woods i did 3 trades, maybe more, where the goods were handed over and cash was transferred to the seller's bank at the time. 
You could ask for a face-to-face sale but only do it with a regular on the forum. Never a newbie.
There are a fair few people here who are in and around Birmingham.

Remember everyone selling on the forum will be in the same position as you. The risk is generally on the buyer's side.

Edited May 10, 2021 by sixgun

[stefffana]

Hi, @savoyard,

It is difficult now to sell back in Germany. If it is not an emergency, try first on forum small batches of silver ( 10oz each batch). If the price per oz will be spot price offered by dealer plus 10-40% premium (depending of what kind of silver you have for sale - generic bars or premium coins), I am very sure you will sell them quick. In this time, your trading history is increasing and you will be able to sell all your silver on forum hassle free. Be open at beginning to send your silver before payment if the buyer have a good trading history. There are not scammers here.

Good luck!

 

[Guest]

On 10/05/2021 at 18:06, Liam84 said:

If you really don't want to sell on the forum then it's your preference. You will lose out considerably with the amount you receive though.

I would think you'd be better off financially and time-wise selling to an established UK bullion dealer over an EU outfit in the current climate. Call them (Chards, Bairdmint etc, there are lots!) and ask rather than relying on the guide prices given for things on websites; some silver is more desirable than other silver.

Yes, I rang some of them. They say they won't accept business with me because my address has been flagged (some previous resident must have ****ed up big time). I could sell cash in hand to some dealers in the Jewellery Quarter but a) they would pay me peanuts and b) they look dodgy and ring some nasty bells.

[Arganto]

1 hour ago, savoyard said:

Yes, I rang some of them. They say they won't accept business with me because my address has been flagged (some previous resident must have ****ed up big time). I could sell cash in hand to some dealers in the Jewellery Quarter but a) they would pay me peanuts and b) they look dodgy and ring some nasty bells.

Not sure how it works with regards any checks a bullion dealer may perform but in general I thought red flags were tied to the individual not the property? Plus they're getting the metal before they pay you, if you can prove provenance I can't see what their issue is. If you're really keen on selling to a dealer my advice (given without being in your shoes so not 100% au fait with the situation) would be to put in writing what it is you would like to sell, where you bought it from and assert you have nothing to do with whatever issue has been raised with your address. See what comes back.

[HillWalkerDundee]

I have bought from three sellers on TSF and have never had a single problem. In each case the goods arrived promptly, in good condition and securely.