Looking to Invest for Future (no kids, no missus, JUST me)

[JohnyBGold]

Hi first time posting and was looking for some guide on investing in silver or any other metal. Really this is about finding best way to invest, what I should be spending money on to build/stack up a pot for when the time is right, maybe retirement or just when the time is right to sail off into the sea 😐. 

I've bought abit so far around 1.5k worth (started in March) some 1oz brits, 2 sov including a double and 3 bars (250g silver umicore, 10g pamp gold & metalor gold)

I see the above as me getting my toes wet but as you can see its a bit of a mix bunch. I'm aware that premiums are high at the moment and it does stop me a little from pulling the trigger but I don't want to stop, as I say trying to build up something of worth in my future. For the record I'm 42 and looking to spend around 300-600 per month on average.

Edited May 7, 2021 by JohnyBGold

[Bigmarc]

One of the best pieces of advice I've had on here is when I am looking at buying something, think in your head "how am I going to sell this". I've been doing this for more than ten years and I came to the forum with such a large mix match of silver that it never occurred to me how I was going to sell it. So think of your end game, a tube of 25 Brits would sell in minutes some of the random pieces I have may take all week to sell.

You seem to be doing well on the purchasing front, there is a lot there for 1.5k. Many people her use cross spread purchasing as a way of accumulating PM's, this doesn't work for me as I have a low budget for PM's, however I am using this method for crypto and maybe right for your budget. 

[JohnyBGold]

Hi Bigmarc thanks for the reply I appreciate your input. So you think stick with brits or just any coin with no CGT in general?

I was considering by some more silver bars likely 250-500g very soon at spot price as I read one of your previous posts which was about focusing more on spot than premiums. (i'm sure it was you could be wrong) 

 

Sorry, what do you mean by PM's and "cross spread purchasing"

Thanks again

Edited May 8, 2021 by JohnyBGold

[Bigmarc]

30 minutes ago, JohnyBGold said:

Sorry, what do you mean by PM's and "cross spread purchasing"

Precious metals and using your full budget every month regardless of the spot. It averages out the spot cost. 

There are many different reasons people are into silver. Based on your budget and the fact you would like to have a future investment that is the way a majority would go. I am more of a treasure hunter. Really like the old stuff, it generally trades at spot. This takes a lot of time and effort and is more of a hobby for someone on a low budget. I would think to yourself, how am I going to sell this in the future?, with Brits it's one sale, you can decide how many coins go in to that sale. There is generally no questions and a is quick and easy. £600 per month is a fair size for a newbie so you will accumulate a lot of weight quickly. 

[Bumble]

So, you sold your kids and your missus to buy silver? That's dedication.

Coins are usually slightly more expensive than bars for the same weight, but many people prefer coins because they are easier to trade and easier to check for being genuine. Since you are in the UK, britannia coins have the advantage that they do not attract capital gains tax. The same goes for the Queen's Beasts series, which you might still be able to get hold of, though the earlier ones are now attracting a price premium.

Once you get the hang of which coins tend to be desirable, you might also like to buy multiple copies of a coin, keep them for a few years, then sell the extra ones and use the profit to buy more. Some folks manage to make their collections pay for themselves this way. Chinese pandas and Somalian elephants are often collectible, as are the lunar year sets from the Perth Mint.

[JohnyBGold]

2 hours ago, Bigmarc said:

Precious metals and using your full budget every month regardless of the spot. It averages out the spot cost. 

Sorry Bigmarc do you mean regardless of the premium? just to clear that up. 

thank again appreciate it

[JohnyBGold]

2 hours ago, Bumble said:

Since you are in the UK, britannia coins have the advantage that they do not attract capital gains tax.

Ha ha! like that (hope your only joking 😁)

Thanks what you said there about UK coins made lightbulb go on. If I have any plans to move abroad in future those coins would lose that benefit I would imagine? In that case would you say invest in few other types, maples, eagle etc?

[Bumble]

I don't think you can get the same exemption with eagles. You could try moving to a jurisdiction with no CGT.

[Bigmarc]

2 hours ago, JohnyBGold said:

Sorry Bigmarc do you mean regardless of the premium? just to clear that up. 

thank again appreciate it

Yes regardless of premium, a lot of investors do it in here, it's not for me. Maybe someone else would be able to explain it better.

[JohnyBGold]

Ok, gonna look into that looks at some other threads too, thanks again 

[Bigmarc]

13 minutes ago, JohnyBGold said:

Ok, gonna look into that looks at some other threads too, thanks again 

Like I said it's something I don't do here but others do. It's something to do with not trying to predict the highs and lows of the market and averaging it out throughout the year. 

Good luck

[SilverStorm]

On 07/05/2021 at 15:41, Bigmarc said:

One of the best pieces of advice I've had on here is when I am looking at buying something, think in your head "how am I going to sell this". I've been doing this for more than ten years and I came to the forum with such a large mix match of silver that it never occurred to me how I was going to sell it. So think of your end game, a tube of 25 Brits would sell in minutes some of the random pieces I have may take all week to sell.

One of the best pieces of advice ever!  Which is why (IMHO) I'm staying away from truly large sized PM, even though premiums on these larger sized bullion is cheaper.  Future liquidity is definitely an important factor to consider. 

Edited May 9, 2021 by SilverStorm

[JohnyBGold]

7 hours ago, SilverStorm said:

One of the best pieces of advice ever!  Which is why (IMHO) I'm staying away from truly large sized PM, even though premiums on these larger sized bullion is cheaper.  Future liquidity is definitely an important factor to consider. 

Thanks for the input the advise on here is worth as much as the metal itself. What would you class as truly large sizes I don't know if I would ever have budget for that but would buy 500g without thinking twice? 

[Bigmarc]

7 hours ago, SilverStorm said:

One of the best pieces of advice ever!  Which is why (IMHO) I'm staying away from truly large sized PM, even though premiums on these larger sized bullion is cheaper.  Future liquidity is definitely an important factor to consider. 

I was having the exact same conversation with a friend this morning. He is one of the very few people who know I do this. He was concerned about inflation and wanted to know if I thought it was a good idea to buy Krugerrands and 500g silver bars from the royal mint. Basically I showed him the hairy side and gave him a lesson in liquidity. 

[JohnyBGold]

14 minutes ago, Bigmarc said:

I was having the exact same conversation with a friend this morning. He is one of the very few people who know I do this. He was concerned about inflation and wanted to know if I thought it was a good idea to buy Krugerrands and 500g silver bars from the royal mint. Basically I showed him the hairy side and gave him a lesson in liquidity. 

So how can you sell it when you want to? I would thought selling a 500g size bar would be straight forward, no? Similar a Krugerrands. Sorry every answer seems to lead to uncovering more questions.

[Bigmarc]

11 minutes ago, JohnyBGold said:

So how can you sell it when you want to? I would thought selling a 500g size bar would be straight forward, no? Similar a Krugerrands. Sorry every answer seems to lead to uncovering more questions.

Sorry was a answer to someone else's point. There is no problem with selling large sizes it's when you do it's best to be attractive to as many people as possible.

Did you see John wick? I know it's a film but bare with me.

His gold stash, if it was three or four big bars it would be worth the same amount. But when the cleaners come, hotels and the armoury the three or four big lumps would be useless. It was better to pay in multiples of small amounts. 

If you want to raise £200 in cash then just sell multiples of the same coin, rather than hacksawing a lump to pieces. That's what silver storm means by liquidity (I think).

Attractive to the buyer, easy for the seller. Large lumps do sell as well, of course they do but your target audience may be smaller. 

You will notice this in the forum that everyone has different view points. Learn from them and create your own path.

[SilverStorm]

4 hours ago, JohnyBGold said:

Thanks for the input the advise on here is worth as much as the metal itself. What would you class as truly large sizes I don't know if I would ever have budget for that but would buy 500g without thinking twice? 

IMHO and strictly based on my own personal observation, anything larger than 250g bars is too large for me.  I may buy a bar that is larger than 250g, but I certainly won’t stack it for liquidity purposes.   It’s easier to sell 1oz or 2oz bullion rounds that is worth the same as a kilo bar.

Another factor for me here locally in Canada: a local bullion dealer near me will pay out cash with no questions asked up to a maximum of Cdn $200.  Anything over $200, they will pay you with a check.  Once you start selling bullion that is worth hundreds or thousands of dollars, and you deposit the check into your bank account, that’s potentially a red flag the bank may notice and inform the government.  By law, you are supposed to declare any gains or losses on the sale of your precious metals on your income tax return.  Tax dept can look at your tax return, look at your bank accounts and say there’s a discrepancy, why do you have so much cash and deposits.   Then they nail you for tax evasion.  I’d rather not deal with the headache with all the paperwork that’s required and the potential fallout. So selling bullion for cash will provide a way to sidestep this legal requirement when it’s tax time.  Hence smaller bullion sizes is another reason why I like them more than the larger sized bars.

Having said that, 500g may not be too large for you.  So size is subjective, and it also depends upon your investment objectives.  And I’m not familiar with UK tax laws, so you’ll need to consult with someone locally who can advise you.  You need to consider tax implications (if any) that may apply to you when you liquidate your precious metal holdings.  

Edited May 9, 2021 by SilverStorm

[SilverStorm]

3 hours ago, Bigmarc said:

If you want to raise £200 in cash then just sell multiples of the same coin, rather than hacksawing a lump to pieces. That's what silver storm means by liquidity (I think).

 

Correct!   Love your John Wick example.  👍

Edited May 9, 2021 by SilverStorm

[GoldDiggerDave]

On 07/05/2021 at 22:59, JohnyBGold said:

Hi first time posting and was looking for some guide on investing in silver or any other metal. Really this is about finding best way to invest, what I should be spending money on to build/stack up a pot for when the time is right, maybe retirement or just when the time is right to sail off into the sea 😐. 

I've bought abit so far around 1.5k worth (started in March) some 1oz brits, 2 sov including a double and 3 bars (250g silver umicore, 10g pamp gold & metalor gold)

I see the above as me getting my toes wet but as you can see its a bit of a mix bunch. I'm aware that premiums are high at the moment and it does stop me a little from pulling the trigger but I don't want to stop, as I say trying to build up something of worth in my future. For the record I'm 42 and looking to spend around 300-600 per month on average.

Gold in my opinion is one of the best buys for long term retirement savings, it makes no difference long term if spot fluctuates in the short or mid term. (I see people freaking out if it drops £30 per oz) Around  £600.00 per month 2 sovereigns or a few 1/2 sovereigns (secondary market) for more fractional options.   Easy to sell on, gold has been a store of wealth for over 5000 years.  

The  boring thing to look at that no one really talks about is If you have debt/mortgage, look at ploughing more into that, the compound interest savings can be tremendous.   I did this in 2008, I tripled  the mortgage payments I went without a few foreign holidays but paid the mortgage off 9 years sooner saving best part of  27k.  Had nothing to show for it just looked at is as 9 years free rent. (what would 9 years free rent today cost you?)  

Other thing is not to over expose yourself, I see some people really heavy into PM only to have to cash it in when they have a bill to pay, and you nearly always lose every time selling  PM'S in the short term due to the spread.  

 

Happy to talk

 

Dave 

[JohnyBGold]

59 minutes ago, GoldDiggerDave said:

Gold in my opinion is one of the best buys for long term retirement savings, it makes no difference long term if spot fluctuates in the short or mid term. (I see people freaking out if it drops £30 per oz) Around  £600.00 per month 2 sovereigns or a few 1/2 sovereigns (secondary market) for more fractional options.   Easy to sell on, gold has been a store of wealth for over 5000 years.  

The  boring thing to look at that no one really talks about is If you have debt/mortgage, look at ploughing more into that, the compound interest savings can be tremendous.   I did this in 2008, I tripled  the mortgage payments I went without a few foreign holidays but paid the mortgage off 9 years sooner saving best part of  27k.  Had nothing to show for it just looked at is as 9 years free rent. (what would 9 years free rent today cost you?)  

Other thing is not to over expose yourself, I see some people really heavy into PM only to have to cash it in when they have a bill to pay, and you nearly always lose every time selling  PM'S in the short term due to the spread.  

 

Happy to talk

 

Dave 

Thanks Dave will keep that in mind pal. Look out for PM very soon my head is churning out thoughts daily.

[SilverStorm]

55 minutes ago, GoldDiggerDave said:

Gold in my opinion is one of the best buys for long term retirement savings, it makes no difference long term if spot fluctuates in the short or mid term. (I see people freaking out if it drops £30 per oz) Around  £600.00 per month 2 sovereigns or a few 1/2 sovereigns (secondary market) for more fractional options.   Easy to sell on, gold has been a store of wealth for over 5000 years.  

The  boring thing to look at that no one really talks about is If you have debt/mortgage, look at ploughing more into that, the compound interest savings can be tremendous.   I did this in 2008, I tripled  the mortgage payments I went without a few foreign holidays but paid the mortgage off 9 years sooner saving best part of  27k.  Had nothing to show for it just looked at is as 9 years free rent. (what would 9 years free rent today cost you?)  

Other thing is not to over expose yourself, I see some people really heavy into PM only to have to cash it in when they have a bill to pay, and you nearly always lose every time selling  PM'S in the short term due to the spread.  

 

Happy to talk

 

Dave 

All excellent points.   I would "like" it except for the fact I've exceeded the number of likes allowed unless I upgrade to a paid membership.  

 

 

[Bigmarc]

41 minutes ago, SilverStorm said:

All excellent points.   I would "like" it except for the fact I've exceeded the number of likes allowed unless I upgrade to a paid membership.  

 

 

I gave him a like for you, the chances of me paying triple my mortgage is a pipe dream. Probably the reason I hunt around for pieces of silver to try and feel like I'm winning. 😁😁 Not all about the money.

[GoldDiggerDave]

Honestly we took the decision to litarary "nuke" our outgoings.  How many times have you been utterly broke in January after Christmas, only to get smacked by the MOT, car insurance, etc and it takes you until June or July to get back on an even keel? I've bought the t-shirt and paid for it on finance ten times over, and before you know it you are back in the vicious cycle the following year. 

I've been skint more times than i've been flush.  I don't claim to have the answers to becoming a millionaire, but have adopted strategies not to be broke.  Debt is the key.  The second you don't have any debt then no one owes you.

How long do you have to live to have absolutely nothing?   Not to have a penny more or owe a penny less, the morning you wake up and have zero debt? This is the target to aim for while you are still young and healthy not wishing your life away until you are 75 and too old and knackered to enjoy life.

I can talk about this for hours, and Idon't want to come across as a wise ass, I've grown up poor in some of the worst council  estates you could possibly  imagine. No one yet has ever beat me on top trumps on the crappiest places to grow up, and that's nothing to brag about.  

Happy to talk, money, wealth, happiness, and the C word...............Contentment.

 

Cheers 

 

GDD. 

 

[SilverStorm]

21 hours ago, GoldDiggerDave said:

Honestly we took the decision to litarary "nuke" our outgoings.  How many times have you been utterly broke in January after Christmas, only to get smacked by the MOT, car insurance, etc and it takes you until June or July to get back on an even keel? I've bought the t-shirt and paid for it on finance ten times over, and before you know it you are back in the vicious cycle the following year. 

I've been skint more times than i've been flush.  I don't claim to have the answers to becoming a millionaire, but have adopted strategies not to be broke.  Debt is the key.  The second you don't have any debt then no one owes you.

How long do you have to live to have absolutely nothing?   Not to have a penny more or owe a penny less, the morning you wake up and have zero debt? This is the target to aim for while you are still young and healthy not wishing your life away until you are 75 and too old and knackered to enjoy life.

I can talk about this for hours, and Idon't want to come across as a wise ass, I've grown up poor in some of the worst council  estates you could possibly  imagine. No one yet has ever beat me on top trumps on the crappiest places to grow up, and that's nothing to brag about.  

Happy to talk, money, wealth, happiness, and the C word...............Contentment.

 

Cheers 

 

GDD. 

 

With age comes wisdom (and experience).   Good advice is never bad; I'd rather learn from people who's been through choppy waters than to learn from the school of hard knocks.   Your last word is key...contentment.   Because without it, all the money in the world will still not make one happy.