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How much silver to hold


Bigmarc

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Hi all 

Just after a few opinions really.

I've been stacking silver for quite some time before joining this forum, I suppose I am a bit of a magpie and it is something I have always done. 

I have been a member for a couple of months and after reading many posts I can feel myself wanting to diversify.

So my question is, If you was to start selling for the purpose of buying other metals, what is the minimum amount of silver you should hold?

 

 

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The minimum amount of silver one should hold is the amount you have now. i would not be offloading silver at this time. i aim to keep adding.

Edited by sixgun

Always cast your vote - Spoil your ballot slip. Put 'Spoilt Ballot - I do not consent.' These votes are counted. If you do not do this you are consenting to the tyranny. None of them are fit for purpose. 
A tyranny relies on propaganda and force. Once the propaganda fails all that's left is force.

COVID-19 is a cover story for the collapsing economy. Green Energy isn't Green and it isn't Renewable.

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I'm the opposite @Bigmarc, a beginner to the world of PM stacking but often read the rule of thumb is ~5% of wealth.

Over the next umpteen years I'll build a stack of Brits for the kids, a box each should be achievable, a similar value in Gold (Sovs or other CGT exempt coins) so overall will expect to be around that at the end of the day.

Edited by CaptCaveMan

Looking to complete a date run of Bu Sovs and still require; 2010, 2011, 2018 & 2019

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For now its what i already have.  The lack of supply, tax and high premiums mean that i wont be adding to my stack anytime soon, or that's the plan.   I believe that due to the low prices the silver miners aren't selling much of their product which is causing as much of a supply issue as the large increase in people wanting silver.   It will all work out in the end

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7 minutes ago, sixgun said:

The minimum amount of silver one should hold is the amount you have now. i would not be offloading silver at this time. i aim to keep adding.

That helps with my anxiety about parting with it. I was fine until I gained access to the trade section. I still feel I need a nice balance tho.

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11 minutes ago, CaptCaveMan said:

I'm the opposite @Bigmarc, a beginner to the world of PM stacking but often read the rule of thumb is ~5% of wealth.

Over the next umpteen years I'll build a stack of Brits for the kids, a box each should be achievable, a similar value in Gold (Sovs or other CGT exempt coins) so overall will expect to be around that at the end of the day.

Yes but once you get to that goal of a box each, then what, is that your minimum and trade the rest? Or move on to gold?

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8 minutes ago, Relm said:

For now its what i already have.  The lack of supply, tax and high premiums mean that i wont be adding to my stack anytime soon, or that's the plan.   I believe that due to the low prices the silver miners aren't selling much of their product which is causing as much of a supply issue as the large increase in people wanting silver.   It will all work out in the end

If you don't want bullion grade and don't mind sterling, eBay is your best bet until it does sort it's self out. 

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If you see a good value coin / bar which you think has potential then irrespective of the metal it is probably a good piece for your stack.
Always think about selling the piece before you buy it. Disappointment in this game usually occurs when you sell, not when you are buying. 

Investment gurus whoever they are, are saying that the biggest uplift potential is coming from silver. But be careful - there are some heavy premiums being asked. If you look back to before March 2020 the premiums were lower. Don't go overpaying and don't go for faddish pieces.
My own view is silver will move towards the historical ratio with gold. That is sub-20. i have said this before and plenty have disagreed and suggested the idea is fanciful. Well we will see but the odds for me are that the ratio will keep falling rather than going up.
At some point it may be an idea to switch into gold and at some point it may be an idea to swap your metal for something else which offers more you value.
At the moment i am not offloading silver and i like to keeping adding bits to my treasure chest.

Edited by sixgun

Always cast your vote - Spoil your ballot slip. Put 'Spoilt Ballot - I do not consent.' These votes are counted. If you do not do this you are consenting to the tyranny. None of them are fit for purpose. 
A tyranny relies on propaganda and force. Once the propaganda fails all that's left is force.

COVID-19 is a cover story for the collapsing economy. Green Energy isn't Green and it isn't Renewable.

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Just now, Bigmarc said:

Yes but once you get to that goal of a box each, then what, is that your minimum and trade the rest? Or move on to gold?

For Silver that's my end game, no more no less.  At todays prices it's ~£10k - £12k each in silver depending how/when they choose to offload.

I'll be buying Gold along the way but the focus will be on silver, overall a similar amount of both in terms of value would be a nice amount to gift them.

Looking to complete a date run of Bu Sovs and still require; 2010, 2011, 2018 & 2019

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20 minutes ago, sixgun said:

Always think about selling the piece before you buy it. Disappointment in this game usually occurs when you sell, not when you are buying.

This is the most sound piece of advice I think I've seen posted on this forum. Thought it worth quoting just so people hopefully read it again.

As for the topic at hand...  There isn't a specific right answer (IE - 1000oz) but I think it is good to have some and much like @sixgun I won't be selling anything I do have. The current situation with the insane premiums is a real tough one so I can understand wanting to look elsewhere. Once the premiums shot up last year amongst the shortages I more or less stopped buying silver and focused more on gold. That is pretty much where I remain.

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5 minutes ago, AppleZippoandMetronome said:

This is the most sound piece of advice I think I've seen posted on this forum. Thought it worth quoting just so people hopefully read it again.

As for the topic at hand...  There isn't a specific right answer (IE - 1000oz) but I think it is good to have some and much like @sixgun I won't be selling anything I do have. The current situation with the insane premiums is a real tough one so I can understand wanting to look elsewhere. Once the premiums shot up last year amongst the shortages I more or less stopped buying silver and focused more on gold. That is pretty much where I remain.

That is kind of where I am. My budget only allows me to purchase gold every couple of months so I'm getting itchy feet. My original thought was to cash in on 20 % of my stack as it seems a seller's market as it's not hard to undercut the premiums. I only have made two purchases of gold and was eager to speed things up a little. I must admit it was a lot easier when stacking on your own. Seeing all the different ways people do things, kind of makes me loose sight of my original goal. On the other hand it's good to bounce a few ideas of people.

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I believe that there is no set amount that anyone should be aiming for, rather a stacker should formulate their own sort of checklist of conditions to be met prior to choosing to add silver to the stack.  Price, premiums, availability, % of total investment, means of storage,  etc. all good considerations to take into account.  I think if you have conviction behind the reasons why you have chosen to purchase metals to begin with, then you are selling yourself short by choosing to stop buying silver just because you have reached an arbitrary set amount of ounces. 

Me personally?  I like to stack silver at a particular ratio relative to my gold.

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Enough to carry in the event of a disaster!!!!!.... personally though I look to have similar to Robda, 300 + oz and then if i get some to flip i may keep a couple just to add to the stack, depends on my mood and if I have over 500 then anytime i fancy generating some money i can sell without worrying my long john silver treasure chest is going to empty... 

Guard it like Golum and don't let Frodo take it!!!!

It does not matter how slowly you go so long as you do not stop.

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1 hour ago, stefffana said:

Hi, @Bigmarc,

I believe the real potential of silver is in spot price, not in premium. So, now I am stacking only low premium silver, very easy to sell near spot price (1000g,  500g bars, old british currency, and scrap ). I sold already all high premium coins and I've converted all in sovereigns and another silver low premium.

Why? Because in next future the industrial demand will generate a rise in spot price and my stack's value will increase and I will do profit only waiting. The shiny silver coins ( now at spot + 60-95% ) will lose from their high premium when the spot price will be high. The market demand will be for cheap silver, not for expensive coins. 

I can't understand why people are interested to pay now for a silver 1oz coin £28 - £35, equivalent at £18.42 spot price + 52% to +95% premium, when the same metal can be bought easy at 0 to 30% premium in a different shape. I am not talking about numismatic or collectible products. This is another story, I don't know this game, I am talking only about pure stacking.

About quantity... Depends on your style of life, your age, your plan of retirement, depends on what you want to give to next generation. But a minimum one is around 15kg silver and equal value in low premium gold in your stack.

This is my opinion, I am not a guru in PM, but I prefer to stay safe, speculating only the spot price and ignoring high premium products. 

 

Let's imagine a scenario, using today's spot price £18.42/oz silver and a future potential spot price x2.5 = £46.05/oz silver.

 

John bought today from a dealer 1 kg bar, paying £790.62, VAT and shipping included. This is £24.58/oz, +34% premium.

Jane bought today 32oz (app.1 kg) silver Royal Arms and she paid £1129, VAT and shipping included. This is £35.28/oz, +91.5 premium.

After few years, the spot price is £46.05/oz = £1480.7/kg and it is time to sell. 

John will sell quick 5% over spot, having in hand £1554.7. His pure profit is £764/kg.

Jane will struggle to sell at 30% over spot, but because the spot is so high, she will accept finally only 10% over spot, having in hand £1628.7. Her pure profit is only £499/kg.

It is a difference of £265/kg between John and Jane. If the stack is 15kg, the difference is £3975.

 

But let's talk about Bob. He bought today 1kg scrap silver at spot price. He paid £592. He sold his silver in the same day as John and Jane at spot price, having in hand £1480.7. His pure profit is £888.5.

Position in this game:

1. Bob:   £888.5 profit/kg;

2. John: £764 profit/kg;

3. Jane: £499 profit/kg.

 

This is rough, because in reality, Bob was able to buy more scrap than John and Jane, using the same money.

If we are talking about the same money invested, the difference is huge.

 

Let's compare now only Bob and Jane, to be more visible this difference.

Jane paid £1129/kg for Royal Arms and Bob used the same money, buying 1.9kg scrap silver.

Jane is selling after years at £1628.7 with profit £499.

Bob is selling after years at £2813.3 with profit £1684, with a difference between them of £1185.

If the stack is 15kg, the difference of profit between Bob and Jane is £17775.

 

This is the reason I am trusting in spot price, not in premiums.

I hope my explanation was clear enough for all new stackers. I know, it is difficult to see the real potential of scrap. But from scrap to treasure it is only a little step.😊 When you will see here scrap silver at spot price, do not hesitate and buy quick!😁

Happy stacking, guys, happy stacking!

Stefan.

 

 

 

Steffana.

We have very similar stacking habits. Your recent activity on the for sale section of this forum probably prompted me to ask this question in the first place. (Very well explained).

If silver was to get rid of the precious metal and jewelry label it would probably have risen as much as copper, zinc and tin over the years. 

I do find the premium thing a bit of a strange concept to deal with. The gold sovereign stackers like to pay roughly 4% premium on a purchase, a sovereign has 92% gold in it. Sterling is 92% with about the same premium if that. Sterling seems to be treated as junk. Why pay that much more for bullion grade? 

 

Thanks all for your replies. I think the general consensus is how much you can carry. Fortunatly that is quiet a bit as my name suggests. 

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I am not british, but in history this word "Sterling" or "Stirling" was a high standard of quality and value all around British Empire. I totally agree with you. A people who will learn from his history will be able to stand straight in the future.

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2 hours ago, stefffana said:

I believe the real potential of silver is in spot price, not in premium.

 

This has been my conclusion for a few years now. There was a time when high premium coins did best and that was in the days of falling silver prices. The times they are a changing.
 

Silver coins generally carry a premium over spot. Some of that will be the cost of making the coin - some is VAT and dealer / mint profit - some of it is the perceived value of the coin - the collectability. 

The higher the collectability of the coin, the higher the premium. The collector value helped protect coin values in the days of falling silver prices. The price of some coins actually rose despite the value of the silver falling - this was b/c of rising collector values.

To get a better idea on how things might turn out with a significant rise in the value of silver we need to look at gold coins.
These coins have much lower premiums as a percentage of the total price of the coin unless they are something very, very special.

If we consider in some imaginary world where the price of silver coins went up to that of gold, we can see that in percentage terms the value of the actual silver in a coin would have to go up much more than any premium on silver coins.
 

Let's take the example of the Three Graces 2 oz silver coin.  There have been various prices in the after market but i have seen £1200 (and more).
The silver in the coin is worth say £40, so the premium is £1160.

If silver jumped to £100 / ounce in a reset (a five times hike) the silver would be worth £200.
Do we expect the £1160 premium to jump to 5 x £1160 = £5800?

i am virtually certain the premium of these coins will not jump to anything like £5800. 

So what does this mean? Well it means the silver bug who spent £1200 on a few tubes of spotty Maples or silver grain and so got themselves more silver would be quids in compared with the collector who got a prized Three Graces.

This is the reason i put in my earlier post "Don't go overpaying and don't go for faddish pieces."

The Three Graces is a very beautiful coin - a real prize - but it will not make the most bang for your buck come the reset.

Edited by sixgun

Always cast your vote - Spoil your ballot slip. Put 'Spoilt Ballot - I do not consent.' These votes are counted. If you do not do this you are consenting to the tyranny. None of them are fit for purpose. 
A tyranny relies on propaganda and force. Once the propaganda fails all that's left is force.

COVID-19 is a cover story for the collapsing economy. Green Energy isn't Green and it isn't Renewable.

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The primary purpose to stack any metal is to both retain its "purchasing power" value and hopefully be able to sell for a profit in the future.
Ignoring premium stuff and sticking to bullion - the real issue with silver now in the UK is the VAT of 20%.
You may have to hold your silver for a very long time before you can ever expect to sell and not loose money since a dealer will not pay you the VAT element.
So you may end up choosing to sell privately but if you need to shift 1,000 ounces or more that takes a lot of work.
If silver ( and platinum ) was VAT free then stack silver ( and platinum ) but not now.
Go for gold.
 

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I've stopped stacking silver  at just shy of 2000 Toz (inc. collections)  but that was due to Brexit/TAX. I've added 2 Toz in sovereigns to my gold stack and a further 1.75 Toz in semi-numi collectables too. When my current series are complete i will be stopping the silver completely except the Perth mint lunars, kooks, wedgetail eagles.

I find that silver is something that i prefer the look of but like Platinum more and more when i can get it.

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17 minutes ago, Pete said:

The primary purpose to stack any metal is to both retain its "purchasing power" value and hopefully be able to sell for a profit in the future.
Ignoring premium stuff and sticking to bullion - the real issue with silver now in the UK is the VAT of 20%.
You may have to hold your silver for a very long time before you can ever expect to sell and not loose money since a dealer will not pay you the VAT element.
So you may end up choosing to sell privately but if you need to shift 1,000 ounces or more that takes a lot of work.
If silver ( and platinum ) was VAT free then stack silver ( and platinum ) but not now.
Go for gold.
 

Indeed Pete and we'll never get rid of VAT on silver as long as it has an industrial use so we may as well get used to living with it and having to deal with the prices that go with it as industrial use for silver ain't going away .....

It does not matter how slowly you go so long as you do not stop.

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44 minutes ago, Gordy said:

Indeed Pete and we'll never get rid of VAT on silver as long as it has an industrial use so we may as well get used to living with it and having to deal with the prices that go with it as industrial use for silver ain't going away .....

VAT on silver in Germany is actually 19% ( I think ) but the bullion dealers manage to invoke the differential VAT loophole meaning VAT is minimal or absorbed in the premium of the coin, but not possible with bars.
Same in Austria and Belgium and maybe some other EU countries.
We in the UK have to pay an additional VAT of 20% on top because none of our dealers seem willing to follow those in the EU.
When we were in the EU we still paid 20% VAT so this isn't anything to do with silver ( and platinum ) being industrial metals it is all about using / not using the tools available to lower VAT. Industrial users are unaffected as they recover the VAT in their businesses.
Silver is described still as a precious metal rather than an industrial metal so another reason to work the differential VAT scheme here.
 

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3 minutes ago, Pete said:

VAT on silver in Germany is actually 19% ( I think ) but the bullion dealers manage to invoke the differential VAT loophole meaning VAT is minimal or absorbed in the premium of the coin, but not possible with bars.
Same in Austria and Belgium and maybe some other EU countries.
We in the UK have to pay an additional VAT of 20% on top because none of our dealers seem willing to follow those in the EU.
When we were in the EU we still paid 20% VAT so this isn't anything to do with silver ( and platinum ) being industrial metals it is all about using / not using the tools available to lower VAT. Industrial users are unaffected as they recover the VAT in their businesses.
Silver is described still as a precious metal rather than an industrial metal so another reason to work the differential VAT scheme here.
 

Maybe a precious metal yeah but as long as it has industrial uses governments will use that to tax it... 

It does not matter how slowly you go so long as you do not stop.

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4 hours ago, stefffana said:

I believe the real potential of silver is in spot price, not in premium. So, now I am stacking only low premium silver, very easy to sell near spot price (1000g,  500g bars, old british currency, and scrap ). I sold already all high premium coins and I've converted all in sovereigns and another silver low premium.

Some great posts on here and this is just one snippet from many.

I have some semi-numismatic (even some faddish coins, some of which I regret a bit) and when silver first spiked their premium was initially largely retained. I believed that it was time to sell them all and buy bullion instead, but alas circumstances didn't allow me to.

Now there seems to be a 'squeeze' where the some of the premium coins (many of the more popular ones especially) are not even approaching the premiums they should be over basic bullion (I fully understand why). So I'm just sitting tight and hoping for a repeat that I will be able to take advantage of. It may well not come again, but I'm lucky in that almost all premium coins I bought are offset by tubes at less than £15 a coin (my best deal being £12.50 posted from Europe to England, and then by a friend on to me). Pretty much at current prices (and I don't expect significant pullbacks in future) all my premium coins are covered cost-wise.

So, although I could be sitting on more, I'm very thankful. Again I'm not saying it'll repeat but even the coins and bars I bought in the UK with VAT before I found the Silver Forum are looking cheap now.

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