Fake Sovereign?

[ali187]

Hello All

 

I bought a 1866 Shieldback  Half Sovereign which in the pictures from eBay weighed 3.8 grams instead of 3.99. Is that normal? The seller is a jewellery dealer and described it as genuine.

[dicker]

A picture speaks a thousand words. 
 

Best

Dicker

[ali187]

[ali187]

Weight seems to be now 3.87 grams what do you think folks? 

[HawkHybrid]

try testing your scales with other known weight coins eg 5p, 1p?

try tare weighing with coins on a light dish?

 

HH

[ali187]

I have tried various other coins and they come up fine. Its just this particular coin

[SidS]

Half sovereigns can drop weight a fair bit especially these young head coins, they were very well circulated during the Victorian era. It was a running battle to keep them above legal tender requirement weight, but also they weren't always minted at the correct weight to start with!

Looks like there are some marks just before the V in Victoria and between the VICTORIA and the DEI, these could be edge knocks, hard to tell from the photos.

Does this coin appear polished/cleaned? The marks on the rims around the edge would also indicated whether the coin had been mounted in jewellery or not, there seems to be discolouration on the reverse side between the I and N of REGINA, does this line up with the mark on VICTORIA? If so I suspect this is an ex-mount coin.

From the blurriness of the photos it's hard to tell if it genuine or not, fuzziness/weakness which can be indicative of fake coins can also be products of weak strike/ heavy wear and a thorough polishing.

[ali187]

Thanks Sid for the response. I never knew that the weight drops with the young heads. Definitely got a few knocks exactly where you spotted them. The coin to my inexperience I think has been cleaned. The marks do seem to line as you suspected. I am in 2 minds refund or keep. Help!

[Midasfrog]

Victoria half sovereigns are quite collectable and hold their value well even in worn condition. Its a bullion grade so I would keep it for what it is , It will be easy to sell in future 👍

[SidS]

If it makes you feel better I once had a genuine 1852 which was lighter than the one you have. So from a weight point of view, I wouldn't worry too much.

In another part of this form is a link to The Bentley Catalogue of sovereigns, collected over many years by the aforementioned Bentley, each entry has a weight recorded next to it. You'd be surprised how many of the young head Victorians are underweight, some are even overweight! Seems quite a bit of variation was accepted in the 1850s/60s/70s etc.

[ali187]

Thanks again gents for the knowledge

[dicker]

I agree with the above.  If you want to download the Bentley collection catalogues as a reference (they are excellent) see my link on an earlier post in the gold section.

I collect early Australian Sovereigns.  I have some that are real “dogs” but that adds to the interest for me - they lived a life in Australia, paying miners, drovers and the creators of a nation. Your half Sov is the same. Enjoy!

Best

Dicker

[Roy]

If a sovereign/half sovereign is not the correct weight and dimensions it is not a sovereign/half sovereign! It is merely 3.xxg of gold.

'Between 1842 and 1845, the Bank withdrew and had recoined some £14 million in lightweight gold, about one-third the amount of that metal in circulation. This not only kept the sovereign to standard, it probably removed most of the remaining guineas still in commerce. The unlucky holder of a lightweight gold coin could only turn it in as bullion, would lose at least a penny because of the lightness and often had to pay an equal amount to cover the Bank of England's costs. There was also increased quality control within the Royal Mint; by 1866, every gold and silver coin was weighed individually. The result of these efforts was that the sovereign became, in Sir John Clapham's later phrase, the "chief coin of the world". 

[SidS]

12 minutes ago, Roy said:

If a sovereign/half sovereign is not the correct weight and dimensions it is not a sovereign/half sovereign! It is merely 3.xxg of gold.

Absolutely! However, that is for coins that are as struck. I've just been browsing through the Bentley Catalogue of Sovereigns from the 1860s and the weight range for EF-UNC specimens seems to hover around 7.98g-8.00g, the better VFs around 7.96g-7.97g, the lower VF range around 7.95g, and coins Good Fine/almost VF striking out around 7.92g-7.94g.

Now should a sovereign drop below Fine, into AF or Fair grades then the weight will reduce further.

Half Sovereigns are a smaller coin and therefore would have a higher weight of wear, not saying that 3.87g is good, that is a lot of wear.

Whether the Original Poster's coin is genuine or not, I cannot determine, whilst the low weight (a gram + light) would (and should) raise eyebrows and questions, it's not beyond the realms of possibility if the coin is heavily circulated.

Now a slight correction, I've been looking back through my old coin records and the half sovereigns I had all weighed between 3.96g-3.99g, except for the 1852 which was 3.90g (so was actually heavier than the OP's above - hence my error) - but was only in Good Fair to About Fine condition - hence very worn).

[SidS]

I believe, but I am not certain (and I'm happy to be corrected), that guineas were demonetised and removed from circulation in 1817*. Whether any circulated unofficially beyond that date is another matter entirely.

*The pre-1816 silver coinage was exchanged in February 1817 and the old silver was demonetised shortly afterwards, possibly March 1817. The gold coinage was dealt with afterwards, presumably in the autumn, however, records on the gold are scant. Kevin Clancy did a thorough explanation of the silver exchange though.

 

 

 

 

[Arganto]

Something to add which often gets overlooked is scale calibration/quality. Cheapo scales will often be out a certain amount, and if they're really cheapo-depot that amount will vary each time you measure and they won't take calibrating no matter what you do. 

Even decent scales (not necessarily expensive ones) will require periodic calibration which involves calibration weights and activating the calibration setting of the scales.