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Perth Mint Blanks


dicker

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Hi All

Bit of a left of field question...

The PM make very high quality blanks (gold and silver) which are sold to mints across the world.  I had heard that the PM gold and silver blanks are supplied to our friends at the Royal Mint for Britannia’s in gold and silver.

I am interested in obtaining a silver blank.....

Has anyone ever seen (for sale) or own any silver blanks produced by the Perth Mint?

Best

Dicker

 

https://www.perthmint.com/minting_services_precious_metal_blanks_view.aspx

Not my circus, not my monkeys

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I have thought about that...but not on this occasion.  
 

Quite simply, I am interested in owning one or two or more.  I have seen them through a bullet proof window at the Perth Mint, but didn’t think to ask if I could buy one when I was there!  
 

If no one here knows, I will mail the PM and let the forum know if it is possible to source them.

Best

Dicker

Not my circus, not my monkeys

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Hi All

I mailed the PM and this is their response.  They did not say that they don't supply to retail....

Best

Dicker

=================================================================================

Dear Dicker,
 
Thank you for your email, here is a link to blanks from our website https://www.perthmint.com/minting_services_precious_metal_blanks_view.aspx
 
Regards
 
 
Graeme Uren  |   Customer Service Officer, Retail
Tel. (+61 😎 9421 7218
Toll Free 1800 098 817
perthmint.com

Not my circus, not my monkeys

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I have been told that in some countries, the government backed mints aren't allowed to sell blanks as they are viewed similar to the material that they use to print fiat currencies. I think that Perth Mint is also owned by the Australian government, though it's worth asking if they have these blanks available for consumer sales. I wonder how they'd price a blank considering there wouldn't be a numismatic value, but it could be considered to be a collectible.

 

Curious to see what comes from this :)!

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I have relatives in Perth, I will ask if one of them can go to the PM and have a chat to one of the (very helpful) staff.

Pricing would be very interesting.....

Best

Dicker

Not my circus, not my monkeys

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3 hours ago, Alex944 said:

I have been told that in some countries, the government backed mints aren't allowed to sell blanks as they are viewed similar to the material that they use to print fiat currencies. I think that Perth Mint is also owned by the Australian government, though it's worth asking if they have these blanks available for consumer sales. I wonder how they'd price a blank considering there wouldn't be a numismatic value, but it could be considered to be a collectible.

 

Curious to see what comes from this :)!

Surely a blank would be priced as it’s weight plus a bit for the making of it? Only gold or silver until made into a coin like you say. Intriguing.

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On 07/01/2021 at 18:35, dicker said:

The PM make very high quality blanks (gold and silver) which are sold to mints across the world.  I had heard that the PM gold and silver blanks are supplied to our friends at the Royal Mint.

Where presumably the RM dip them in special 'Milking Solution' prior to pressing the coins and kicking them around for a while before finally packing and selling them...

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Well indeed.  My Perth Mint silver doesn’t seem as prone to environmental issues as RM silver.  Could be because I don’t have lots of silver but maybe it is in the final part of the minting process.

Best

Dicker

Not my circus, not my monkeys

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1 hour ago, TheShinyStuff said:

Where presumably the RM dip them in special 'Milking Solution' prior to pressing the coins and kicking them around for a while before finally packing and selling them...

My question would be how many different types of blanks they produce and what are the differences, because Perth Mint Roos (not to be confused with the premium Royal Australian Mint Roos) are just as bad as Brits for milking in my experience.

Their capsuled stuff is generally extremely reliable, the same as how capsuled Brits like the Oriental etc seem to fare much better (as well as being better struck imo). @dicker would that be a distinction you'd make yourself in your own experience (capsuled and premium - if rather less 'more expensive' on the 'special' Brits - rather than loose bullion)?

Interestingly I've had my first ever Kook spot (having seen hundreds beyond hundreds of these coins)- a 10ozer, ouch! I haven't had it long (bought second hand from here) and the only 'issue' when it arrived (which I didn't take too much notice of) when it arrived was that the capsule wasn't snug - I think it may be a replacement (I'd have to check) but that is my working hypothesis.

So:

1) Is it the blanks?

2) Is it the care and extra steps (or simply being more rigorous about cleaning dies) in production/packaging?

3) Is it the capsules?

4) Unknown environmental factors in the supply chain before reaching you (including unknown handling etc if bought second hand, particularly).

So far my feeling is that 3) definitely plays some part, as I have seen one Kook badly tarnished which was also in a replacement cap. I expect 2) at least in the production of Perth Mint Roos compared to Kooks etc. 1) I had always assumed. In fact many capsuled coins from certain Mints do spot anyway, but is it the quality of the capsule rather than the quality of the blank?

I don't expect many answers, but will certainly follow the thread with great interest :)

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38 minutes ago, TheShinyStuff said:

Where presumably the RM dip them in special 'Milking Solution' prior to pressing the coins and kicking them around for a while before finally packing and selling them...

😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Brilliant!!! The direction of this thread has gone from a mere curiosity for me to a technically fascinating scientific inquiry! Subbed.

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Hi @kimchi

Sorry to read about your 10oz milking.  Ouch!

I agree completely about the pure bullion Roos and similar they do tarnish at pretty similar rates.  
 

My Kooks are all completely free of tarnish.  Most were bought directly from the PM in Perth over the years (thanks to a very helpful relative who likes 2km from the Mint) older ones were purchased from dealers - I am pretty sure all being in their original capsules.  
 

Conversely, I have three RM coins in their original capsules that have milk spotting / tarnish.  The worst being the £5 Millennium Proof Crown.

I like your 1,2,3 analysis.  The coins with issues are ones that are a little older and that I have not owned from new.  You may be correct that the capsule quality is a factor.  I also wondered if people opening the capsules played a part, they are airtight and perhaps they don’t react to whatever might be in the atmosphere.

Note: All the above is obviously 999 silver.  I have some .925 Piedfort one pound coins that have started to tarnish brown / orange around the rim.  Again I didn’t own these from scratch and when I took them out of the (ghastly) RM blue box with a velour interior, none of them had been screwed tight.  When I checked all the others I had they were tight and untuned.  

Best

Dicker

 

 

Not my circus, not my monkeys

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15 minutes ago, RedDragon77 said:

😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Brilliant!!! The direction of this thread has gone from a mere curiosity for me to a technically fascinating scientific inquiry! Subbed.

That’s the great thing, people share ideas, knowledge here very freely. I have learned a great deal.

On a completely different topic, I am thinking about doing a detailed post on the protection mechanisms embedded in banknotes, which is fascinating.  
 

Best

Dicker

Not my circus, not my monkeys

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To add something constructive to this thread the best evidence I have is my own experience. Admittedly I dont have huge amounts like others here, maybe 20-30oz each of RM & PM coins. I have 2 older kooks - a 1998 1oz which I received in a quadrum which to my eye looks perfect. Also a 2006 2oz Kook in it's original case which is also in really nice condition. To the best of my knowledge none of my PM stuff is milky.

I have milky (although not too bad to be fair) Brits from 2015-2020.

I think mint capsuled coins definitely have an advantage, but I also think PM just take more care/pride in their product.

Back to the OP - I would also buy some PM blanks if it was possible, so i will follow @dickers progress with interest.

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14 minutes ago, dicker said:

Sorry to read about your 10oz milking.  Ouch!

Many thanks. It's a 2016 which is the year I started stacking/collecting and it was the coin that really made me fall in love with silver (such a glorious coin!) so hurts rather. On the flipside, I paid £180 and will never sell for less than that. It's just a shame for such a beautiful coin - 10ozers are amazing.

17 minutes ago, dicker said:

I agree completely about the pure bullion Roos and similar they do tarnish at pretty similar rates.

I would absolutely LOVE to get an idea of the supply chain for blanks, it may help to make things a bit clearer, but I don't know if we'll ever get a sense of it. There's been years of talk on here but we've never got very far really.

Almost all the 'stacking' bullion seems pretty much the same to me (Roos being the particular surprise given Perth's wonderful quality elsewhere). I don't think it can ONLY be the caps because the difference is so stark - the coins are often like different products from premium ones. The minting quality seems/is different. One that particularly makes me cross though is the beautiful Somali Elephant as it's one of the best coins in the world design-wise, but that one is pretty well-minted (all imo). I do wonder if some of these 'less traditional' coin-producing countries (with the coins actually minted elsewhere) are somehow limited to 'inferior' blanks, or 'being hard done by' by the Minting companies in the case of premium coins. These countries (e.g. African ones, Nieu) will never be seen much if at all 'natively', so perhaps as long as folk keep buying no problemo..?

28 minutes ago, dicker said:

Conversely, I have three RM coins in their original capsules that have milk spotting / tarnish.  The worst being the £5 Millennium Proof Crown.

You are quite right - this is shocking and completely unacceptable if bought new. You may remember one of the very worst/notorious/most dramatic culprits was the 2017 Silver Krug Anniversary Proof, which spotted in days or (worse) were graded highly and then spotted.

31 minutes ago, dicker said:

I like your 1,2,3 analysis.  The coins with issues are ones that are a little older and that I have not owned from new.  You may be correct that the capsule quality is a factor.  I also wondered if people opening the capsules played a part, they are airtight and perhaps they don’t react to whatever might be in the atmosphere.

Thanks to this I have edited my post to add a 4th option - unknown supply chain environmental factors (especially with second hand coins). My 10oz Kook may have been taken out to admire (why not, anyone who doesn't know better would want to do that?) but there could be all sorts of environmental factors if they did (pretty much unlimited).

Hmmm.

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Here is the answer from the PM...
 

Best

Dicker
======================

Hi Dicker,

The blanks are only available through the minting services. The only other option we have are for personalised medallions which can be found here, but this would be an order placed in Perth and not via an agent https://www.perthmint.com/catalogue/the-perth-mint-personalised-medallions.aspx

Regards

Graeme Uren  |   Customer Service Officer, Retail
Tel. (+61 8) 9421 7218
Toll Free 1800 098 817
perthmint.com

Not my circus, not my monkeys

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