HELP!!! Silver - To Clean or Not To Clean

[Mox]

So, I have a complete set of John Pinches Michelangelo's, in the original packaging with a full set of cards (even with 40+ of the original reciepts). I was considering cleaning them either to keep or before selling. Either way I would love to see them as they were originally but I just cant decide.

https://24carat.co.uk/frame.php?url=medallionsindexoriginal.html

I have seen them online cleaned and uncleaned and the cleaned ones look absolutely stunning. With this sort of item I am not sure what adverse effect cleaning would have either to value or condition.

I was going to use the baking soda and foil method to avoid damaging them or possibly silver dip (as, if you really want to, are advised as the best ways).

There is a set for sale on eBay, with only 42 of the cards, for £2,925, it appears to be the same set sold at an aution in Feb 2012 for £1,586. Apart from that I am struggling to get an idea of the value. The da Vinci set is about 100g heavier and is on sale at The London Coin Company for £2,500 so if I sold it wouldn't be cheap.

What would you do?

Edited December 20, 2020 by Mox

[greendragon]

I have around 40 of these

some doubles and some missing from the series, and around 30+ info sheets

I bought them for a fraction over scrap, and will sell them the same way

though i plan on keeping a few that i like the design of

As for value, there is a website that lists the value of sets like these and their rarity

this set is not very rare

i would clean them if they add to your enjoyment of them

[Mox]

15 minutes ago, greendragon said:

I have around 40 of these

some doubles and some missing from the series, and around 30+ info sheets

I bought them for a fraction over scrap, and will sell them the same way

though i plan on keeping a few that i like the design of

As for value, there is a website that lists the value of sets like these and their rarity

this set is not very rare

i would clean them if they add to your enjoyment of them

I don’t know how many sets were made, this was subscription number 596 according to the paperwork. There is even a pair of gloves that came with the set. I bet there’s not many complete sets around with this much paperwork etc.

[greendragon]

2 minutes ago, Mox said:

I don’t know how many sets were made, this was subscription number 596 according to the paperwork. There is even a pair of gloves that came with the set. I bet there’s not many complete sets around with this much paperwork etc.

23441 sets issued i believe

[greendragon]

Franklin mint tends to issue in large numbers

60 medals in this set

issued 1970-76

I would suggest few of their "collectables" really are worth collecting

except for their silver value

[greendragon]

If you are missing any and wanted to try and complete the collection

I would be willing to help, i would exchange weight for weight 

i'm a manc too

[Mox]

I have the full set in original book. I’m now a bit confused, I have found on Worthpoint that they say that Franklin Mint made them ‘around 1974’ but as you can see from the pic the series started in early 1970. Was there an original series then mass production? Seems odd that if there were over 23,000 made there would have been a reserve list for people wanting to buy them, they were sent out one at a time each month, something doesn’t add up.

[Mox]

And Franklin Mint Silver website has it for $3,445

https://franklin-mint-silver.com/franklin-mint-michaelangelos-genius-medals.htm

[kimchi]

With all possible/potential scenarios explained so far I would leave it uncleaned for sure, and simply alert any interested buyer to their two choices after purchase.

[SILVERFINGER]

2 hours ago, kimchi said:

With all possible/potential scenarios explained so far I would leave it uncleaned for sure, and simply alert any interested buyer to their two choices after purchase.

Yeah I agree with this character above, I collect mint old silver and gold, and I like it to look mint so I carefully remove any muck or toning with a coin cleaner, BUT I prefer to buy coins that have not been cleaned first and would rather do this myself if needed, if keeping clean them, if selling leave them, the toning helps prove to a potential buyer they have not been molested with.

[sovereignsteve]

They are mass produced medals, made specifically for their aesthetic value and as such, heavy toning like yours spoils them IMO. They are currently little more than bullion.

Personally, I would draw a distinction between these and coins of numismatic value and happily dip them if it restored them to their original condition.

[dicker]

Personally I never clean coins and would not clean these.  I am not sure it would affect the value to any significant extent.

Best

Dicker

[HighlandTiger]

These sets from makers such as Pinches are not worth much more than scrap value. There is no collecting market for these overpriced items. 

Personally I'd clean them using a silver dip and a soft cloth. You might add a few percent extra on the price you can get. 

[greendragon]

This is the site i took the information from

Franklin Mint Michelangelo's Genius Medals (franklin-mint-silver.com)

there are several other sites concerned with these collectables

 

[HighlandTiger]

4 hours ago, greendragon said:

This is the site i took the information from

Franklin Mint Michelangelo's Genius Medals (franklin-mint-silver.com)

there are several other sites concerned with these collectables

 

Lol, the Franklin Mint. Anybody who buys any of their tat, brand new at those prices needs their head examined.

I know coin dealers with safes full of this stuff, which they buy and sell below spot value, (much to the surprise of the seller who having paid well over the odds, thought they were onto a winner) I've bought loads of this stuff over the years, never paid more than 5% over spot and never sold it for much more either. 

 

[Wampum]

Looks like this was caused by the folder it was in, would be nice to see if the toning is on the opposite edge on the reverse.

If you really have to clean a silver coin, I wouldn't use silver dips, these are basically a week solution of Sulphur acid, and a ligand, and are designed to remove a microscopic layer of silver,

with repeated dipped making the coin look lifeless, dull and grey. They can also be cancerogenic, which would be something I would not want to use, myself.

Your best bet is the tin foil and baking soda,the hotter the water the faster the reaction, you can also use a little salt to to help the overall reaction.

The water is good from a condenser dryer if you have one(without any fluff),as this purer than tap water.

Once you are happy with the reaction ,remove with a latex glove--(not a nitrile glove)--,and wash with pure Acetone,which will bond with the water and remove the excess.

I would not use the acetone on bare skin as it is readily absorbed through your pores, however it also washes the oil from your hand onto the coin,to give a milky apearance.   

You can sometimes get a milky appearance depending on what was on the coin itself, with repeated washings this can disappear, however not always.

I have two bottles used Acetone in one for first/second wash, and brand new for final rinse.(This might be slightly anal-retentive).  

Pick something that your not overly fussed with to practice on first, just to get the feel for it.      

----Just as a separate point, a lot of times when people dip coins they say that toning appears again much quicker. I think the reasoning behind this, is that an older coin has had years to build up a fine layer of people holding it, dust settling on it, oils covering it, and just normal day to day detritus, leaving a protective layer which inhibits the toning, slowing it down, and aging it until it is one of your favourite pieces.

                                                  or you could dip it, strip it, and have it blast white. 

                                                           

     

Edited December 21, 2020 by Wampum

[Pipers]

4 hours ago, HighlandTiger said:

Lol, the Franklin Mint. Anybody who buys any of their tat, brand new at those prices needs their head examined.

I know coin dealers with safes full of this stuff, which they buy and sell below spot value, (much to the surprise of the seller who having paid well over the odds, thought they were onto a winner) I've bought loads of this stuff over the years, never paid more than 5% over spot and never sold it for much more either. 

 

Don't hold back then HT!  Let him down gently

[sovereignsteve]

3 hours ago, Pipers said:

Don't hold back then HT!  Let him down gently

why would he start now?😁

[sovereignsteve]

6 hours ago, Wampum said:

have two bottles used Acetone in one for first/second wash, and brand new for final rinse.(This might be slightly anal-retentive

Not at all, just good laboratory practice😉

 

 

[HighlandTiger]

10 hours ago, sovereignsteve said:

why would he start now?😁

Hey, believe me, I wish I had a Highland Tiger telling me the stuff I bought in the start of my PM journey was a load of old overpriced tat. Instead I had a number of forum members who were flogging the stuff telling me I was doing the right thing. (something I still see happening) 

I learnt the hard way......  

[Mox]

2 hours ago, HighlandTiger said:

Hey, believe me, I wish I had a Highland Tiger telling me the stuff I bought in the start of my PM journey was a load of old overpriced tat. Instead I had a number of forum members who were flogging the stuff telling me I was doing the right thing. (something I still see happening) 

I learnt the hard way......  

Cheers Tigger, good to know you think I flog old tat, Happy Christmas to you too.

[HighlandTiger]

2 hours ago, Mox said:

Cheers Tigger, good to know you think I flog old tat, Happy Christmas to you too.

Apologies, I wasn't directing that comment specifically at yourself. However I am just repeating what at least 4 coin dealers that I know personally are saying. They just can't shift the stuff. 

Here at the silver forum, most of our members are extremely savvy, and are always looking for a bargain. The chances of you getting the price you are thinking of is going to be low. Simply because the people on this forum are more interested in silver bullion and proof pieces from national mints. 

However I'd suggest advertising them on eBay, or even Etsy, (I've seen sets like yours for sale there in the past). Chances are you'll get closer to your asking price. 

Good luck. 😁👍

 

 

[sovereignsteve]

7 hours ago, HighlandTiger said:

Hey, believe me, I wish I had a Highland Tiger telling me the stuff I bought in the start of my PM journey was a load of old overpriced tat. Instead I had a number of forum members who were flogging the stuff telling me I was doing the right thing. (something I still see happening) 

I learnt the hard way......  

while I don't agree with everything you say by any means, I have always appreciated your direct, to the point manner.😉

[MrFreezerrr]

Sorry for “stealing” the attention in this post with my own question, but it is a similar question and don’t want to start an unnecessary new topic for it.

Made a visit to my father today. I remember in my youthyears my parents always had a big coin in one of the drawers of their desk. It’s been there as long as I can remember...This fact crossed my mind several times past years and now I finally asked about it so I can search some more info.

Nothing really special...it should be 90% silver but it has a more copper/brownish look. Offcourse I’m keeping it, but wonder if I should clean it? What would be the best way to do that? I know cleaning is actually a big no-no but for a not so valuable coin like this maybe I can make an exception? 

 

Edited January 30, 2021 by MrFreezerrr

[sovereignsteve]

I don't think it's valuable but even so, don't clean old coinage such as this. It would look unnatural and definitely be spoiled.