Did I destroy perfectly good coins?

[Smoldish]

Hi there,

So I recently got into stacking and collecting silver coins. I has just found a Morgan Dollar and Peace Dollars my mother had collected and since the looked dirty or tarnished I decided to clean them. I looked up online ways to clean them and used the whole tinfoil, hot water, baking soda and cold water method. After I did this they looked great to my opinion but after doing some further research on coins I had found out that cleaning your coins could destroy the value in them depending on how you cleaned them. Does anyone know if I just totally destroyed what could have been a valuable coin? Is there a way I can fix this? Does the price of it go down severely? The Morgan I have are from 1889 and the Peace Dollars is 1923, 1922 and 1923. Thank you for all your help.

-Smol D

[ChrisSilver]

Moved go the silver area of the forum as it is a discussion topic.

The trade section is exclusively for items for sale via the forum, opposed to discussion topics.  

[RedDragon77]

2 hours ago, Smoldish said:

Hi there,

So I recently got into stacking and collecting silver coins. I has just found a Morgan Dollar and Peace Dollars my mother had collected and since the looked dirty or tarnished I decided to clean them. I looked up online ways to clean them and used the whole tinfoil, hot water, baking soda and cold water method. After I did this they looked great to my opinion but after doing some further research on coins I had found out that cleaning your coins could destroy the value in them depending on how you cleaned them. Does anyone know if I just totally destroyed what could have been a valuable coin? Is there a way I can fix this? Does the price of it go down severely? The Morgan I have are from 1889 and the Peace Dollars is 1923, 1922 and 1923. Thank you for all your help.

-Smol D

Not an expert but from my very limited knowledge yes, *if* they had numismatic value you probably destroyed most of it. Micro-scratches from abrasives cannot be repaired, anyone trying to grade them will know they were cleaned almost immediately.

I wish these things came with a giant flashing light saying "Do not attempt to clean you stand to lose lots of value!" 

[LongJSilver]

Never clean your coins

[BrumChris]

Physical cleaning will damage the coin and destroy much of its numismatic value. I'm not sure about the method you used but generally collectors quite like the aged tarnished look on silver.

[Martlet]

The process described is chemical, reversing decades of tarnishing from oxidation or other reactions. Having done this myself it doesn't leave a completely clean coin, just lifts the heavier tarnish, leaving a fair amount of patina. If that's the case, and the premium on such coin isn't huge, it might not have much affect on coin value. 

[jultorsk]

Don't beat yourself up. Your bicarbed coins will likely tone right back over time. Unless they were in high (gem) mint state the losses in any case are not huge, as those are common years. Morgan 1889 in MS63 is listed on 2020 Blue Book for $40 (mintage 21 million) and those Peace dollars $28 each in MS63 (1922 51 million and 1923 31 million minted). (To ascertain the grade you'd need to have them sent to e.g., NGC or PCGS - which in USA costs about $25 per coin I think.) 

For condition comparison guideline of Morgan and Peace dollars have a look at PCGS Photograde

https://www.pcgs.com/photograde#/Morgan/Grades

https://www.pcgs.com/photograde#/Peace/Grades

Then you can look at what kind of coins people have paid top dollar for. There's all sorts; ugly mottled toned, fancy rainbow toned and flashy white coins. See e.g.,

https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1889-1/7188

https://www.pcgs.com/prices/detail/morgan-dollar/744/most-active

The good thing about USA coins is that there's a very robust market for them and price discovery is strong - you'll always be able to find tons of information and tools online on what the current price for your coins is. 

Learn from the experience and enjoy the addictive hobby 😊

[Pete]

Mass produced coins that are abundant in the market are only worth what is the current going rate.
Most will have been poorly stored and abused so a bicarb bath will not have done anything to devalue your coin.
Nothing inappropriate in getting rid of the grime and tarnish to make it resemble a once shiny silver coin but silver polish or rubbing might make it look unnatural as some finishes are slightly matt and will become more reflective.

If you want to blacken it again or create a patina place it inside a sealed plastic bag with half a boiled egg and let it "mature" until you gain the desired effect.

As others have stated - for a collectible, valuable or numismatic coin - LEAVE it alone.

[Midasfrog]

@Pete have you any tips for a polished gold sovereign , I picked a Victorian one up from a jewellery shop that has been buffed up 😆I am keeping it but would like to tone the shine down a bit , is there any methods for gold ?

[sovereignsteve]

3 hours ago, Midasfrog said:

@Pete have you any tips for a polished gold sovereign , I picked a Victorian one up from a jewellery shop that has been buffed up 😆I am keeping it but would like to tone the shine down a bit , is there any methods for gold ?

I've tried a few methods but never had much success.

[Arganto]

5 hours ago, Pete said:

 

If you want to blacken it again or create a patina place it inside a sealed plastic bag with half a boiled egg and let it "mature" until you gain the desired effect.

 

Have you done this Pete? It seems like it would be a good little science experiment to do with my girls. I'm sure I could sacrifice something I'm not too attached to...maybe... 😁

 

[DarkChameleon]

16 hours ago, Smoldish said:

Hi there,

So I recently got into stacking and collecting silver coins. I has just found a Morgan Dollar and Peace Dollars my mother had collected and since the looked dirty or tarnished I decided to clean them. I looked up online ways to clean them and used the whole tinfoil, hot water, baking soda and cold water method. After I did this they looked great to my opinion but after doing some further research on coins I had found out that cleaning your coins could destroy the value in them depending on how you cleaned them. Does anyone know if I just totally destroyed what could have been a valuable coin? Is there a way I can fix this? Does the price of it go down severely? The Morgan I have are from 1889 and the Peace Dollars is 1923, 1922 and 1923. Thank you for all your help.

-Smol D

They are not high value, for peace its 21, 28, 34 and 35, 22 if its a deep relief..morgans tend to be cc mint.

[Wampum]

I think as long as you don't rub/scrub the coin, this method will only change the Silver Sulfide, however would never do any cleaning on coins with Numismatic interest.  

Coins are best left no matter what shape/colour they are, as any type of cleaning will devalue them.

Dipped coins always look as if the letters are haloed compared to the rest of the surface,and you can't repair hairlines.

This method you are still altering the surface through an electrochemical reaction which won't remove any Silver, however removes the Sulfides by turning it into Aluminium Sulfide, with the baking 

making the transition easier. That's why you can smell bottom burps when this is happening,as sulphur is released.

The eggs are a good way to speed up the process, I think from memory it is the white on an egg and not the yolk,that is best which I would have thought would have been the other way around.

Sulphur matches in a box with your coins, or old brown envelopes that contain Sulphur where always ways that work ,however nothing is guaranteed, and you could be left with a munter

The best way is the put them on display without a capsule and let them tone down naturally that way any thing that happens is controlled.

This last one I have seen with silver forks, so would be good to see with a bullion value scraper coin, and that's to use a dishwasher on highest setting, it brings Silver forks out with a colourful

tarnish.                      

[sixgun]

The issue with cleaning coins is mainly abrasive cleaning. Rubbing the coin causes microscratches - these are picked up under a loupe and if the coin is graded. They will effectively reject the coin. Often the coin has a different appearance. From a collector point of view they have been damaged and lost value. By the sounds of it you haven't done much if any harm.

[Bimetallic]

On 06/12/2020 at 20:22, RedDragon77 said:

Not an expert but from my very limited knowledge yes, *if* they had numismatic value you probably destroyed most of it. Micro-scratches from abrasives cannot be repaired, anyone trying to grade them will know they were cleaned almost immediately.

I wish these things came with a giant flashing light saying "Do not attempt to clean you stand to lose lots of value!" 

He didn't use abrasives. He used the aluminum foil and baking soda method, which cleans tarnish. There won't be any scratches from that method.

[RedDragon77]

11 hours ago, Bimetallic said:

He didn't use abrasives. He used the aluminum foil and baking soda method, which cleans tarnish. There won't be any scratches from that method.

If you scrub with baking soda are you not creating micro scratches?

[JunkBond]

19 minutes ago, RedDragon77 said:

If you scrub with baking soda are you not creating micro scratches?

You don't scrub with baking soda, you create a solution and dip.

[RedDragon77]

Just now, JunkBond said:

You don't scrub with baking soda, you create a solution and dip.

Cool, in the handful of videos I've watched people do all that, then add more baking soda onto the coins and scrub with a toothbrush. That's the part that put me off, and then I assumed the rest of the process wouldn't do much without the brushing so was otherwise pointless on it's own.

[JunkBond]

3 minutes ago, RedDragon77 said:

scrub with a toothbrush.

Definitely don't do this or you will get scratches. 😂

I have dipped a few of my silver bars as I am not a fan of toning and it works a treat, you should not need to scrub if the solution is strong enough and hot enough.

[RedDragon77]

3 minutes ago, JunkBond said:

Definitely don't do this or you will get scratches. 😂

I have dipped a few of my silver bars as I am not a fan of toning and it works a treat, you should not need to scrub if the solution is strong enough and hot enough.

Great, thanks for the info buddy, funny screen-name too!

[RedDragon77]

I'm keeping the grime on my junk in case a jerk demands to weigh it. 😆😅😂🤣🤣🤣🤣

[Bimetallic]

On 08/12/2020 at 09:19, RedDragon77 said:

If you scrub with baking soda are you not creating micro scratches?

As others noted, you don't scrub or rub. It's a soak treatment. You just dump the baking soda onto the aluminum foil, pour hot water, then just lay the coins into the soup, flipping after maybe 25 seconds. Then remove, rinse, let air dry. It works like a charm, and you can add a dash of salt to improve the effect. I like to use disposable aluminum foil tart pans or lunch-sized meatloaf pans. They were pennies a piece on Amazon. I also got pure salt, which is surprisingly hard to source – it's the canning and pickling salt, which doesn't have any anti-caking agents added like normal salt does. I didn't want to risk the unresearched effects of those anti-caking agents on silver, but you always rinse after the soak so it's probably not a big deal to use normal salt.

[dicker]

I meant to reply to this thread again previously.  I purchased a very nice Morgan dollar a couple of months ago and the dealer sold it as cleaned.  I spoke to him and he didn’t want to sell it as uncleaned because he couldn’t be 100pct sure. 
 

I compared to one of my MS64 Morgan’s and it wasn’t different at all. (Used magnification, took photos etc).

So it could be that some cleaning is just not detectable (ezest etc).  I suspect some coins get cleaned and the graded and re graded. 
 

Best

Dicker

[DarkChameleon]

The graders can tell cleaned better then we can, some are dipped so no scratches but can leave Micro dirt next to the letters and devices that 3 x can see, thats the level they work at for grading.

[RedDragon77]

On 09/12/2020 at 15:21, Bimetallic said:

As others noted, you don't scrub or rub. It's a soak treatment. You just dump the baking soda onto the aluminum foil, pour hot water, then just lay the coins into the soup, flipping after maybe 25 seconds. Then remove, rinse, let air dry. It works like a charm, and you can add a dash of salt to improve the effect. I like to use disposable aluminum foil tart pans or lunch-sized meatloaf pans. They were pennies a piece on Amazon. I also got pure salt, which is surprisingly hard to source – it's the canning and pickling salt, which doesn't have any anti-caking agents added like normal salt does. I didn't want to risk the unresearched effects of those anti-caking agents on silver, but you always rinse after the soak so it's probably not a big deal to use normal salt.

Yes, salt sans anti-caking agents is surprisingly hard to find! Even things that were recommended as such have it in the ingredients, but I finally found the pickling salt and now I have another (potential) use for it.