eEay hell... small claims court

[Fozi]

Hello all, 

I wanted to share my experience with an eBay seller to help warn others. I purchased a 2002 proof full sovereign from an seller on eBay with 400+ 100% ratings. I have had some previous issues with coins from eBay (who hasn't!!) so I am sure to check with the sellers the condition and obtain better photos of the coins if the listing ones are naff. I make the point that I only buy proof coins in true proof condition. The seller in this case confirmed it was an unmarked coin and the marks visible were on the plastic capsule. So on that basis, I purchased the coin and as the title suggests, the coin arrived scratched. I messaged the seller and he immediately became aggressive accusing me of scratching the coin and taking photos of a different coin. What I did was take photos of the coin and then match the marks on the coin with the marks visible in the original listing photos. Like a fingerprint they match and it is conclusive proof that the coins are one and the same and it was damaged before it was sent to me. Surely faced with this evidence the buyer would back down and accept the return? Nope. He became threatening and said that he reported me to eBay and the police. He also opened a small claims case against me. Finally once eBay stepped in he accepted the return but did not refund me. eBay closed the case in my favour and refunded me, I guess eBay then just charge the seller for the money. Not sure how that works.

Due to the number or late night, threatening messages from him 50+, I blocked messages from the seller and haven't communicated with him since.

So I have my money back but am now waiting for a court date to go and fight this absolutely ridiculous case which the seller has no way of winning. I have spent hours dealing with this and all I ever wanted was a nice coin! 

Thoughts?

Since the return I have purchased only from business sellers on eBay and had no problems. Buying from Silver Forum members or Facebook groups is the answer for me that is working. 

[RacerCool]

24 minutes ago, Fozi said:

Hello all, 

I wanted to share my experience with an eBay seller to help warn others. I purchased a 2002 proof full sovereign from an seller on eBay with 400+ 100% ratings. I have had some previous issues with coins from eBay (who hasn't!!) so I am sure to check with the sellers the condition and obtain better photos of the coins if the listing ones are naff. I make the point that I only buy proof coins in true proof condition. The seller in this case confirmed it was an unmarked coin and the marks visible were on the plastic capsule. So on that basis, I purchased the coin and as the title suggests, the coin arrived scratched. I messaged the seller and he immediately became aggressive accusing me of scratching the coin and taking photos of a different coin. What I did was take photos of the coin and then match the marks on the coin with the marks visible in the original listing photos. Like a fingerprint they match and it is conclusive proof that the coins are one and the same and it was damaged before it was sent to me. Surely faced with this evidence the buyer would back down and accept the return? Nope. He became threatening and said that he reported me to eBay and the police. He also opened a small claims case against me. Finally once eBay stepped in he accepted the return but did not refund me. eBay closed the case in my favour and refunded me, I guess eBay then just charge the seller for the money. Not sure how that works.

Due to the number or late night, threatening messages from him 50+, I blocked messages from the seller and haven't communicated with him since.

So I have my money back but am now waiting for a court date to go and fight this absolutely ridiculous case which the seller has no way of winning. I have spent hours dealing with this and all I ever wanted was a nice coin! 

Thoughts?

Since the return I have purchased only from business sellers on eBay and had no problems. Buying from Silver Forum members or Facebook groups is the answer for me that is working. 

That's a bad experience.  I haven't had that bad of an experience thought I have had losses from liars and thieves while shopping online.

Some people like this guy you're dealing with are just bad people.  Unfortunately we can't always avoid them.

[SilverSlugger]

Sounds like hell (unnecessary hell) and sounds like the seller has been very unreasonable throughout the whole process.

 

I can't believe the court is anything other than a threat unless the seller is really that foolish considering your evidence - probably more just to scare you into not going through the eBay returns process. 

 

I would hope that this is the end of the case for you. 

 

 

[HerefordBullyun]

I just don't buy from eBay it's just a minefield. And there are some right plonkers on there trying to rip people off.

[Fozi]

I think he was trying to get full price for a scratched coin and hoped that the buyer didn't notice or care! Then when I requested the return he used the court case as a threat to try and scare me into not returning it. Jokes on him though really as he had to pay £35 to put the claim in and he will be found in contempt of court if it does make it in front of a judge. He even asked for me to pay the £35 when he realised that he had no case. 

[Scruff]

1 hour ago, Fozi said:

I have my money back but am now waiting for a court date to go and fight this absolutely ridiculous case which the seller has no way of winning. I have spent hours dealing with this and all I ever wanted was a nice coin! 

Thoughts?

Let it get to court and DESTROY HIM!

Show no mercy or remorse. None.

[Fozi]

52 minutes ago, Scruff said:

Let it get to court and DESTROY HIM!

Show no mercy or remorse. None.

Think i will counterclaim for my time and the harassment/threatening language. Have already compiled the messages in a document ready. 

[Woodsy]

1 hour ago, Fozi said:

Think i will counterclaim for my time and the harassment/threatening language. Have already compiled the messages in a document ready. 

How can he possibly take you to County Court when you are protected under the Consumer Rights Act 2015. This gives you 30 days to return any faulty item. Even if the fault is disputed you can still return the item under Consumer Contracts Regulations. Which Gives you 14 days from the date you received the item, to notify the Seller you wish to return the item without requiring a reason. I'm sure this applies to second hand goods as well. Was the seller registered as a Business Seller as the law might be different from a private seller?

[Fozi]

1 hour ago, Woodsy said:

How can he possibly take you to County Court when you are protected under the Consumer Rights Act 2015. This gives you 30 days to return any faulty item. Even if the fault is disputed you can still return the item under Consumer Contracts Regulations. Which Gives you 14 days from the date you received the item, to notify the Seller you wish to return the item without requiring a reason. I'm sure this applies to second hand goods as well. Was the seller registered as a Business Seller as the law might be different from a private seller?

He is a private seller. Yes the law protected me and I got refunded but his claim is that I damaged the coin. He says that it was unmarked when he sent it to me but it clearly was marked because his listing photographs have marks that turned out to not be on the capsule but on the coin. The evidence speaks for itself. My recommendation to anyone is to film yourself opening a package when it arrives and examine the coin all on film to prove you haven't damaged it at all up to the point you decide to return it.

The biggest injustice in all this is that I am not allowed to leave negative feedback on his eBay profile to warn other members. EBay say this is because it is a disputed transaction and they do not want to take sides just enforce their policy. I just hope that I can help people be aware that a 100% positive eBay feedback means F all!

[sovereignsteve]

21 minutes ago, Fozi said:

The biggest injustice in all this is that I am not allowed to leave negative feedback on his eBay profile to warn other members. EBay say this is because it is a disputed transaction and they do not want to take sides just enforce their policy. I just hope that I can help people be aware that a 100% positive eBay feedback means F all!

You could name him on here. If he wants to sue you for libel he will have great difficulty when you win his alleged court case against you.

[Fozi]

17 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

You could name him on here. If he wants to sue you for libel he will have great difficulty when you win his alleged court case against you.

Follow this topic, once the court case is over I absolutely will. For now all I can say is that he is from Wales. 

[sovereignsteve]

13 minutes ago, Fozi said:

Follow this topic, once the court case is over I absolutely will. For now all I can say is that he is from Wales. 

Probably suffering from lockdown fever.

[Sokuryoku]

An unpleasant experience for you but I suspect the court case is merely a smoke screen and it will Peter out soon enough once he fully comprehends that his dishonesty has backfired on him. 

[Woodsy]

8 hours ago, Fozi said:

Follow this topic, once the court case is over I absolutely will. For now all I can say is that he is from Wales. 

He might be a member on here. Which part of Wales is he from?

[Leonmarsh]

2 hours ago, Woodsy said:

He might be a member on here. Which part of Wales is he from?

Im from Wales and for the avoidancw of doubt its not me lol, hope you get it sorted mate 

[Fozi]

3.1 million people in Wales. I will be sure he is named but wont before the case is settled.

[Leonmarsh]

5 minutes ago, Fozi said:

3.1 million people in Wales. I will be sure he is named but wont before the case is settled.

I know mate was only joking 

[Hunter87]

Have you had any official Court documents sent to you? I would keep all abusive or threatening messages he has sent as they will be useful.

[Woodsy]

7 hours ago, Leonmarsh said:

Im from Wales and for the avoidancw of doubt its not me lol, hope you get it sorted mate 

I just have a sneaky suspicion I know which eBayer this is, and he joined this forum a few weeks back 😮 So the location would be a big confirmation.

[dicker]

Very sorry to hear this - there are some very rude and unpleasant people about.  

This is the reason I pretty much stopped using Ebay.

I hope you get closure.

Best

Dicker

[Fozi]

4 hours ago, Hunter87 said:

Have you had any official Court documents sent to you? I would keep all abusive or threatening messages he has sent as they will be useful.

Yes. case number and everything. He has submitted his side of the story as have I. Just waiting on the court to put a date on it. I am not worried about losing at all, I just hate it sitting in my head even though I know I have done nothing wrong.

[RDHC]

1. That number of threatening messages easily constitutes harassment under the Protection from Harassment Act (1997, I think), so he has committed a criminal offence. Tell him that. It should at least shut him up, even though the police are likely to do little (as usual). 

2. What is he claiming when you have had the money refunded and presumably he has his scratched coin back? Breach of contract might apply but only if he has suffered a quantifiable loss, which apparently he has not or at least it would be hard to quantify.

3. Is the court convenient for you? You don't want to have to travel to Wales if you live miles away. You can apply to have the venue changed, especially if he claims that you have committed a civil offence, when you are entitled to have the case heard where the alleged offence was committed i.e. in your county.

Good luck. A cautionary tale all right.

 

[Sokuryoku]

It seems to me this should be pretty straightforward to resolve if indeed you say that you have photos of the original eBay listing and the subsequent photos upon receiving and examining the coin. 
Is it possible that the seller is just upset and he simply didn’t pay attention to the condition of the coin before he sent it out? If so the photos should really close the matter. So in this instance if he has genuinely compared the photos and is still pursuing a small claim then I can only conclude he is hedging his bets assuming he now has the coin back in in his possession. He’s a chancer and it looks like this is his modus operandi and has likely done it before. 

[Fozi]

1 hour ago, rdhcustance said:

1. That number of threatening messages easily constitutes harassment under the Protection from Harassment Act (1997, I think), so he has committed a criminal offence. Tell him that. It should at least shut him up, even though the police are likely to do little (as usual). 

2. What is he claiming when you have had the money refunded and presumably he has his scratched coin back? Breach of contract might apply but only if he has suffered a quantifiable loss, which apparently he has not or at least it would be hard to quantify.

3. Is the court convenient for you? You don't want to have to travel to Wales if you live miles away. You can apply to have the venue changed, especially if he claims that you have committed a civil offence, when you are entitled to have the case heard where the alleged offence was committed i.e. in your county.

Good luck. A cautionary tale all right.

 

1. police doing sweet FA is what we are used to! If I want to counterclaim I think I have to submit it as a new claim and that will cost me money. I'd rather just get rid of this and learn my lesson.

2. His English isn't the best and the claim form was submitted at 1:10 AM. Which is defiantly the right time of day to do these things! From what I can understand, he says the coin is now only worth scrap. His claim is for the full amount of the coin when in reality because he has the coin back, it should be the difference between scrap value and the full amount. So another error on his part.

3. Yes they do a court video link from what I have seen as we have different courts selected on the claim info. 

Thank you 

[Fozi]

1 hour ago, Sokuryoku said:

It seems to me this should be pretty straightforward to resolve if indeed you say that you have photos of the original eBay listing and the subsequent photos upon receiving and examining the coin. 
Is it possible that the seller is just upset and he simply didn’t pay attention to the condition of the coin before he sent it out? If so the photos should really close the matter. So in this instance if he has genuinely compared the photos and is still pursuing a small claim then I can only conclude he is hedging his bets assuming he now has the coin back in in his possession. He’s a chancer and it looks like this is his modus operandi and has likely done it before. 

Possibly. A lack of common sense is more the issue I think. Either way be careful with these dodgy eBay sellers!