Advice needed : 1908 Canadian Sov

[Darren9330]

As above really, I've been offered a 1908 Canadian Sov. I'm well aware of the rarity but prices seem to be all over the place. Does anyone have any experience of these and the prices? 

 

Cheers 

[JunkBond]

@Elements is your man.

[Elements]

Hi Darren. With a rarity like this condition is key. Is it graded? 

1 hour ago, Darren9330 said:

As above really, I've been offered a 1908 Canadian Sov. I'm well aware of the rarity but prices seem to be all over the place. Does anyone have any experience of these and the prices? 

 

Cheers 

 

[amiddleton]

 

https://www.ngccoin.com/price-guide/world/canada-sovereign-km-14-1908-1910-cuid-1034988-duid-1270516

[Darren9330]

Hi Elements, it's been graded as SP 61 with NGC

[Elements]

Couple of SP3s have sold this year one at heritage and one at coincabinet for around £8500. 2 grades up sp65 have also been sold for around £16k almost double. Not sure you can apply the same logic 2 grades down halves the value but it’s a reasonable estimate.- 4k ish good starting point.

[Elements]

There was an SP63 sold in London coins for 15k also in September . As you say prices all over the place. They come up so rarely

[Darren9330]

Thanks, this one is offered at £12k. I think it's a bit rich personally. The bit that I'm struggling with is Marshes rate it as R6, but there must be more than 3-4 sovs in existence? 

[Elements]

On 12/10/2020 at 21:09, Darren9330 said:

Thanks, this one is offered at £12k. I think it's a bit rich personally. The bit that I'm struggling with is Marshes rate it as R6, but there must be more than 3-4 sovs in existence? 

I recon if you really want one, some patience and you’ll get better for 12k. See what this goes for:

One for auction very soon

https://en.auction-world.co/xpai/lot_22-2030.html

 

About £7.5k right now

[Elements]

626 mintage apparently.  26 graded at ngc and 97 at pcgs. I don’t know how he devised the R rating, is it an anecdotal scale like how often he personally came across a coin? @sovereignsteve any idea? I guess there’s a lot just stashed away and very few ever come up for resale. That’s my experience with this particular coin. SP61 is right towards the bottom of those graded.

[Elements]

Finished just over £8k

[sovereignsteve]

16 hours ago, Elements said:

626 mintage apparently.  26 graded at ngc and 97 at pcgs. I don’t know how he devised the R rating, is it an anecdotal scale like how often he personally came across a coin? @sovereignsteve any idea? I guess there’s a lot just stashed away and very few ever come up for resale. That’s my experience with this particular coin. SP61 is right towards the bottom of those graded.

Your tag got me thinking about this and I had to dig out my old copy of Marsh to check. I remember reading what he'd said but couldn't remember the exact words.

"The rarity guide.......based on coins being in very fine condition.....many common sovereigns become much rarer when in uncirculated grade".

I can't find it but I think the rarity scale was originally based on his experience, observing auction sales over the years etc etc.

So, if a coin is stated as R6 (4 to 8 examples known) this must mean at grades VF and above. There may be loads known below this grade.

This muddies the waters; if you are buying a coin at grade EF for example that is quoted as R6, the price is likely to reflect the situation where there are only a maximun of 8 examples known. There may be loads of examples at slightly below VF grade but this will only be known anecdotally by experienced collectors or the trade.

Marsh did recognise his guide wasn't an exact science and he does mention some being revised and I'm sure Steve Hill will have revised some in the re-written edition.

There are still some obviously incorrect ratings but before these coins were regularly graded, it will have been difficult to get a handle on it.

Looking at NGC/PCGS population numbers can also be problematic as you never know how many regrades this includes. Although if you are re-submitting in the hope of a 1 pip upgrade that could increase the value substantially, you'd think you'd have the sense to cancel the first number so as not to dilute the value of your asset.

[jultorsk]

5 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

Your tag got me thinking about this and I had to dig out my old copy of Marsh to check. I remember reading what he'd said but couldn't remember the exact words.

"The rarity guide.......based on coins being in very fine condition.....many common sovereigns become much rarer when in uncirculated grade".

I can't find it but I think the rarity scale was originally based on his experience, observing auction sales over the years etc etc.

So, if a coin is stated as R6 (4 to 8 examples known) this must mean at grades VF and above. There may be loads known below this grade.

This muddies the waters; if you are buying a coin at grade EF for example that is quoted as R6, the price is likely to reflect the situation where there are only a maximun of 8 examples known. There may be loads of examples at slightly below VF grade but this will only be known anecdotally by experienced collectors or the trade.

Marsh did recognise his guide wasn't an exact science and he does mention some being revised and I'm sure Steve Hill will have revised some in the re-written edition.

There are still some obviously incorrect ratings but before these coins were regularly graded, it will have been difficult to get a handle on it.

Looking at NGC/PCGS population numbers can also be problematic as you never know how many regrades this includes. Although if you are re-submitting in the hope of a 1 pip upgrade that could increase the value substantially, you'd think you'd have the sense to cancel the first number so as not to dilute the value of your asset.

Great memory! The last sentence on Preface:

"As far as for rarity and availability are concerned I have given a rating for every sovereign listed; this rating is based on sovereigns found in very fine condition but it should be remembered the some of the more common sovereigns can be rated quite scarce if discovered in uncirculated grade."