Buyers - How much effort do you put into finding the best Price for your Gold & Silver?

[BritStacker]

Hi All,

From the activity I have seen on this site I'll assume that this is going to be an ouch topic for most but I still feel it needs to be highlighted.

Buyers - How much effort do you put into finding the best price for your gold or silver?

I'm guessing not too much from some of the prices I see you paying on here. 

Sellers - How much effort do you put into reviewing market levels before posting your prices? Again I'm thinking maybe not too much effort due to the excessive levels I see.

Not all, but most prices I see here are above market rates and I invariably find that I can buy cheaper at Baird Mint and in better condition. An example being new 2020 sovereigns are cheaper than old ones listed on here.

Auctions are another one that baffles me as people start bidding significantly over market levels for generic bullion. I can understand when It is something special and unique, such as BYB, as even I will bid to win something that I desire, but generic bullion, really?

So, I'm curious to understand why buyers are willing to pay more when they can get it at a lower price and why sellers are willing to ask more than high street levels?

Standby for the flack.....

 

 

 

[Clockpuncher]

14 minutes ago, BritStacker said:

Hi All,

From the activity I have seen on this site I'll assume that this is going to be an ouch topic for most but I still feel it needs to be highlighted.

Buyers - How much effort do you put into finding the best price for your gold or silver?

I'm guessing not too much from some of the prices I see you paying on here. 

Sellers - How much effort do you put into reviewing market levels before posting your prices? Again I'm thinking maybe not too much effort due to the excessive levels I see.

Not all, but most prices I see here are above market rates and I invariably find that I can buy cheaper at Baird Mint and in better condition. An example being new 2020 sovereigns are cheaper than old ones listed on here.

Auctions are another one that baffles me as people start bidding significantly over market levels for generic bullion. I can understand when It is something special and unique, such as BYB, as even I will bid to win something that I desire, but generic bullion, really?

So, I'm curious to understand why buyers are willing to pay more when they can get it at a lower price and why sellers are willing to ask more than high street levels?

Standby for the flack.....

 

 

 

Theres a number of reasons people may buy what you consider to be overpriced

• Availability - Sellers in the trade section here have your coin in hand, meaning you can usually get it within 24-48 hours max. Some people value the speed of execution.
• Condition - dealers don't tend to give you much info around the coin you are getting whereas here you can have detailed photos provided to you and interact with the seller to learn about condition before buying
• Credibility - there are plenty of established sellers here who know their stuff. The level of accountability is far higher than somewhere like eBay and the risk of getting a fraudulent coin on here is (in my opinion) far lower. Anybody peddling dodgy goods would be on the banned list pretty fast given how small and connected the community is.
• Rarity - To take your example of 2020 sovs, they are easy to come by and any dealer can source for you, but prior years tend to get increasingly harder to get hold of. Sometimes people want to do a date run or collect a coin for a year which is special to them so they are happy to pay a few more quid to secure the coin. Obviously if you are just stacking weight then go for the cheapest you can find but not everybody has the same goals

As for pricing, the market tends to sort that out. Overpriced stock hangs around for a long period of time until it either gets reduced or the listing gets killed at the 30 day point. Stuff which is keenly priced goes in a heartbeat - have a look at Arshimo2012s listings to see how quick stuff can move (30 seconds from listed to sold sometimes!)

 

Auctions I'm with you on - results can be totally random as people can get tied up with 'winning' rather than buying the coin they want but their money, their choice!

 

 

 

[Jimmock]

Could you list some examples of what and where you can buy that's cheaper than on here,apart from sovereigns.

[Shinus73]

Your characterisation of the forum as a place where people routinely overpay, is likely to be in direct contradiction of the view held by people who try to sell here.

The forum is filled with many long term, knowledgeable stackers / collectors. In my experience, the vast majority of overpriced coins on the forum will never sell.

Tight we are.

[Robda1986]

Simple answer is how much do you value your time ie is it really worth while trolling the Internet for 5 hours looking ebay all bullion sites on here ect to save £5 but on the flip side I do see where your coming from with over priced bullion it's normally p&p that gets me as a kg using sd is an extra £12 

[Tn21]

When buying I do scout the market and see what it is has to  offer. Having said that the majority of my stack has been bought from this very forum and the reason behind that is because of price. Standard bullion items I would buy here first if it's cheaper then a dealer, if not then I would probably favour a dealer tbh. 

 

When it comes to selling I try and price the items better then the dealer's in order to make it more attractive to buy. Everyone wants the best possible price when buying or selling. The circumstances in which an individual is selling can also have an affect on price point, eg someone selling to raise some funds Vs a commercial seller who wants to get the maximum profit (nothing wrong with that) 

Yes you have a point in certain scenarios in my opinion, but the forum is deep and you may only be scratching the surface. 

[Pete]

As @Shinus73 stated this forum has proved its worth in being able to provide a platform where sellers and buyers find and strike deals that are most of the time the best.
I noticed you are relatively new on the forum so you don't have the same experience as many of us who have been buying and selling for many years very successfully.
Many of us are very astute in seeking out good deals and we have well honed experience in checking out competitive prices both when buying and selling.

As a stacker of silver I do research before making any purchases and when for example  @arshimo2012 lists silver bars and coins on the Silver Forum you have to be monitoring your screen live when he lists his stuff because if you blink you have missed a bargain.

If you are desperately seeking a specific coin then you might pay extra because there is no-one else offering this coin.
Some websites like BullionbyPost might show a coin that is out of stock for £30 but you would find it impossible to source anywhere for less than £60 so a seller is going to try and get close to £60. When buying basic bullion then personally I look for the cheapest but factoring in also the cost of shipping or adding VAT plus other charges if purchasing in the USA or Australia.

Last summer I sold a lot of gold coins to forum members at prices you could not even think about getting from any dealers.
Show me a dealer that sells gold proof Britannias, gold proof sovereigns, doubles and quintuples at SPOT price.
Even boxed proof sets at a few percent over spot when your well known dealers were asking 60% premiums on identical sets.

When it comes to selling, some of us research the market very thoroughly and price accordingly.
Serious forum buyers do their homework and if a product is over-priced it does not sell.
Having said that I failed to sell some coins priced at less than £24 here but saw the same coins sell on eBay for over £35 during the same period.
There will always be opportunists and some coins could be overpriced but generally not from any seasoned members.

@Tn21 mentioned you are only scratching the surface so stick with it and if someone is listing at too high a price, don't buy.
Some sellers however might reconsider if you sent them an offer backing up your price as perhaps they weren't as well informed.

It will be interesting to see how silver prices change after December 31 when buying from our VAT free or differential VAT suppliers will have ended.
That's where some of us stackers get our benchmark prices.

[BritStacker]

Wow, 

Great feedback from everyone. Some very valid points raised in regard to collectors wanting to source dates or types. In terms of additional examples I would say the 1/10oz, 1oz and 1/4oz Britannia which I can routinely buy cheaper from Bullion By Post and they aren't cheap. QB's are also high on here from what I have seen and many are scratched. My purchases from main dealers have been in fantastic uncirculated condition with no scratches or dings (maybe I've been lucky?).

In terms of time taken I personally took about 30hrs when starting out to check out the various dealer sites for both trustworthiness and value for money. After that initial outlay of time I had established a base of reputable dealers with best prices and now it only takes me minutes to scan and make a choice (when I have the cash).

Tn21 I have noticed that you offer value prices unfortunately I've only seen your items after pay day so haven't been able to make a buy yet...

Clockpuncher, Good point raised on the market sets the price in that sellers will resort to reductions when things don't move. I have seen this quite a bit which leads me to the ethics question in regard to sellers...surely they know they are asking to much? 

 

[BritStacker]

Pete,

Great response and detail. I also stack Silver and use the EuropeanMint to get it VAT free but I wonder how many out there don't know about these kind of benefits. Yes, its far to ship and you need a lot of faith and trust with your first buy but all my shipments have been without issue and a lot cheaper than the UK VAT man...

Yes, new to the Forum but I've been stacking since 2007 mainly through my gut feeling that something wasn't quite right with the economy...and boom it went. I've always held a stack since then. More so now for a retirement plan. That's why I look more from price than collectable stance. Trying to get the best bang for my buck.

 

[HighlandTiger]

As a long term forum member, here from the early days, the forum has settled into two camps, the stacker and the collector. The collector group appears to be the larger number and as such will pay over the odds for an item, knowing that 1. it exists, and 2. They can have it in their hand in 48 hours.

At the start I too paid silly money for collectibles that I was assured would be winners. They are not, no collectible ever holds the price it has in the first month after release. The longer you hold it, the less profit you will make, (if any). However, the newbies havn't cottoned on to that yet, they listen to the silver collectible pumpers and will pay over the odds.

Gold on the forum is a little different though. Bullion can be bought easily here at less than dealers prices, and sold for more than dealers will offer, so it's a win win situation. With gold collectibles though, see my comments about silver above. 

[Pete]

3 hours ago, HighlandTiger said:

At the start I too paid silly money for collectibles that I was assured would be winners. They are not, no collectible ever holds the price it has in the first month after release. The longer you hold it, the less profit you will make, (if any). However, the newbies havn't cottoned on to that yet, they listen to the silver collectible pumpers and will pay over the odds.

My experience also so that's why I have been gradually "dumping" boxed sets, commemoratives and certified proofs.
Selling at a loss but lesson learned.
Fantastic empty shelf space once the fancy packaging has left the building.
Also in my experience the popular slabbed coins with MS-69 / 70 often don't cover the additional cost of grading.
There will always be odd exceptions to quote though.

On the opposite side I wish I hadn't sold last year my collection of Queen's Beasts Griffins looking at the current price.
Nice to see the Dragon creeping up a bit and wonder how the series will develop ?
 

[Pete]

11 hours ago, BritStacker said:

Pete,

Great response and detail. I also stack Silver and use the EuropeanMint to get it VAT free but I wonder how many out there don't know about these kind of benefits. Yes, its far to ship and you need a lot of faith and trust with your first buy but all my shipments have been without issue and a lot cheaper than the UK VAT man...

Yes, new to the Forum but I've been stacking since 2007 mainly through my gut feeling that something wasn't quite right with the economy...and boom it went. I've always held a stack since then. More so now for a retirement plan. That's why I look more from price than collectable stance. Trying to get the best bang for my buck.

 

A long term stacker !!
Did you follow the herd and buy during the peaks in 2011 ?
Sadly I bought a lot - things were at a fever pitch and coins were selling on eBay the moment they were listed.
At the time you had to pay full VAT buying from the likes of CoinInvest but the German rate of VAT was low ( 7 or 9% ? - cannot recall ) so I bought mainly from German dealers.
I saw my "investment" crash but luckily I wasn't relying on this to pay the bills.
Fortunately I also managed to buy when silver was low and by selling some of this have kind of cancelled some, but not all, of the book value losses.
GS.be and the European Mint have been super but only if you bought sufficient to amortise the shipping.
GS.be also allow you to build up multiple orders to have shipped as a single lot but I wonder how things will look in the new year.
Maybe this is an opportunity for a future branch GS.ie as it may take decades so sort out trade outside of the EU.

[CardiffGold]

As a retail seller, we review pricing weekly or when something comes to light. Normally on weekends when the prices don't move for ease. We try and keep our pricing as low as possible but it isn't always possible especially with some of the "collectable" items. 

We have to display VAT inclusive prices, Google require this. But its a little more clear with no surprises at checkout to customers so we don't mind. 

Stock availability is a big player in some product prices. Especially in the times where demand is higher. 

[BritStacker]

5 hours ago, Pete said:

A long term stacker !!
Did you follow the herd and buy during the peaks in 2011 ?
Sadly I bought a lot - things were at a fever pitch and coins were selling on eBay the moment they were listed.
At the time you had to pay full VAT buying from the likes of CoinInvest but the German rate of VAT was low ( 7 or 9% ? - cannot recall ) so I bought mainly from German dealers.
I saw my "investment" crash but luckily I wasn't relying on this to pay the bills.
Fortunately I also managed to buy when silver was low and by selling some of this have kind of cancelled some, but not all, of the book value losses.
GS.be and the European Mint have been super but only if you bought sufficient to amortise the shipping.
GS.be also allow you to build up multiple orders to have shipped as a single lot but I wonder how things will look in the new year.
Maybe this is an opportunity for a future branch GS.ie as it may take decades so sort out trade outside of the EU.

Hi Pete,

I was all gold back then in 2007 £350-750 an ounce or there about. Stopped buying in 2010 and then sold in 2011 when it started to slide. So didn't catch the top but did make a good profit. Didn't start buying again with profits until 2013/2014 and continued since.

I didn't appreciate value of silver back then so only started buying silver from end 2014 when I saw the rise from 2011. Stacked it since.

I've stopped stacking silver now as I want to see the next level breach before I commit more. There could be a major pull back to 14/15 and if so then I'll dip in again but got enough for now. Definitely a great time to be in silver if you bought low. If silver shows huge potential to continue into the triple figures then I'll be driving over to EuropeanMint once we are out of the EU.

I'm bullish on gold and will continue to stack (its my pension). My silver will be the quick one off win as you only see these cycles once every 20 years and they are fast. Gold hedges against inflation for me as pension pots are worthless and just a con.

 

[BritStacker]

I'm in agreement with Pete and HighlandTiger over the collectables. You struggle to recover the inflated prices on them and in my opinion they are just scams from the mints to make more money. 

They are for true collectors hobby enthusiasts not stackers.

I see Proofs etc on here with scratches and dings and still asking for the inflated price. In my view if a proof has any marks or scrapes at all its no longer a proof but rather bullion and price should reflect this.

Modern day collectables are for the hobby enthusiast as it will take a couple of hundred years before they reach a status to enable recovery of the initial outlay with a profit. Rarity and condition are what drive the price and you wont see that in modern day items.   

Don't misunderstand me some of the items out there are very desirable aesthetically and I have partaken in the Libertads as I love the design but they are my personal / emotional buy and wont ever be sold. As a means to profit and hedge against fiat currency they just don't make the grade....

I crave the US Eagles in Gold and Silver along with the Buffalo but again not a stacking item due to high premiums.

I have also noticed that people struggle to sell on Krugs so I'm a strict Britannia and QB stacker. Keep it to local mintage that is easily traded and recognised. 

[HawkHybrid]

 

19 hours ago, BritStacker said:

An example being new 2020 sovereigns are cheaper than old ones listed on here.

 

18 hours ago, BritStacker said:

Clockpuncher, Good point raised on the market sets the price in that sellers will resort to reductions when things don't move. I have seen this quite a bit which leads me to the ethics question in regard to sellers...surely they know they are asking to much? 

 

for gold bullion what percentages is it overpriced by? 1%, 2%.

is that really so unethical considering the current volatility in the gold price?

is it just setting up the stage for possibly some haggling?

 

if it was so much more profitable to sell on the forum then why not buy from dealers at the

cheaper price and sell on the forum? (or is it that you are not seeing the whole picture?)

 

HH

[Hunter87]

Usually I will just check out 

http://goldprice.eu5.net/#

[HighlandTiger]

3 hours ago, BritStacker said:

I'm bullish on gold and will continue to stack (its my pension). My silver will be the quick one off win as you only see these cycles once every 20 years and they are fast.

 

This is the scenario I'm in. At the age of nearly 55, this could be my last chance of profiting from a bull run before I retire in 8 years time.

So I'm going to have to time my silver exit carefully. 

[HighlandTiger]

3 hours ago, BritStacker said:

I have also noticed that people struggle to sell on Krugs so I'm a strict Britannia and QB stacker. Keep it to local mintage that is easily traded and recognised. 

My cash for gold guy is always trying to sell me krugs, (he always has a big handful in stock), but he knows I'm a sov guy, however he often struggles to keep up with the demand for sovs from his customers.

[BritStacker]

4 hours ago, Hunter87 said:

Usually I will just check out 

http://goldprice.eu5.net/#

Hey, Hunter87 thanks for the link. Great reference piece. I'll use this myself going forward.

[dicker]

Personally, I split my buying into two halves.

(1) Stacking - at close to spot.  Where I try and keep to paying close to Spot as possible.

(2) Collecting - Aussie Sovereigns, and Choice Unc Sovereigns.  Happy to pay for nice examples.

 

Best

Dicker

 

[modofantasma]

I think after a while you get a feel for what prices are normal.

When I'm buying, whilst price is important I'd usually wait for certain sellers or dealers to sell unless it's a particular coin. Just easier than setting up a new payee etc. I might ignore a single sov from a new seller that's £5 cheaper than a bunch of nice ones from one of the established dealers on here.

As an occasional seller I always try to price items I sell below a dealers price, I'll check 2 or 3 to make sure but sometimes a dealer will have a sale the next day. If there isn't much info I might check eBay prices or search the forum for recent sales