Europeanmint milk-spotted silver coins

[silverdocket]

3 minutes ago, thesongofthunder said:

Anyways, I don't want to continue this, because it builds tension.

Not sure why, but nobody will thank me or appreciate for telling them!

Just an honest discussion.

That's what the forum is for.

It's good that we all don't agree in society... life would be boring

 

[songofthunder]

6 minutes ago, BackyardBullion said:

I don't mind you sharing this, I mind lack of context in some of the follow up posts you and others have made. 

Assumptions are not good and context is often so badly overlooked.

I am hoping European Mint will be more careful in the future, and they would return the milk spotted coins to the mint before selling them to the customers.
What do you guys think? Is that a fair and good business model? Will it bring more happy clients? Or am I wrong?

[BackyardBullion]

1 minute ago, thesongofthunder said:

I am hoping European Mint will be more careful in the future, and they would return the milk spotted coins to the mint before selling them to the customers.
What do you guys think? Is that a fair and good business model? Will it bring more happy clients? Or am I wrong?

I think this is a good way to leave the thread, this is the last I will comment on it.

Again, sorry you had a bad experience and I wish you the best for future purchases whether that be the EU mint or anywhere else.

[songofthunder]

2 minutes ago, BackyardBullion said:

I think this is a good way to leave the thread, this is the last I will comment on it.

Again, sorry you had a bad experience and I wish you the best for future purchases whether that be the EU mint or anywhere else.

Thank you @BackyardBullion!

 

 

[Faiz]

I agree that dealers should supply the highest quality of product if they want to hold on to their customers. However, do you think it may be due to supply issues? The lockdown has affected businesses in many different ways, it may be a glitch in the whole silver bullion supply chain. 

[Faiz]

sorry, a little late in my comment there chaps. Case closed.

[Rll1288]

I have always had good service from European mint and I believe its fine to make them aware on the situation. They do seem to have made a fair response although but I can see why an exchange for some would be expected. BU Coins I see as long term investment and I expect that over the years the ones I have now will possibly "milk" and tone. Some context I have bought many things from the RM and as it stands, I have had more issues on quality control with some coins being exchange several times. That said, like the EU mint, they have tried to recompense either through discounts or exchanges. It happens but from what I can see its not systemic but time will tell if the standards (for both) improce.

[HighlandTiger]

12 hours ago, thesongofthunder said:

I am hoping European Mint will be more careful in the future, and they would return the milk spotted coins to the mint before selling them to the customers.
What do you guys think? Is that a fair and good business model? Will it bring more happy clients? Or am I wrong?

I actually think you are spot on. Blindly absolving any company that sells milky coins (without first informing the customer that this is a possibility), just because "that's the way it is" and "get used to it" isn't an attitude that will help improve a business.

However the consumer has the right to vote with their feet. If the fact that this thread has made someone think before buying with this company, then that can only be a good thing. People are entitled to receive what they have paid for and the quality of the coins should be part of it. If a dealer has milky coins, inform the public, sell them at a lower price and everyone will be happy. Offering a discount on a future order, rather than a refund or partial refund on the spot, is poor business practice in my opinion. By offering a discount on a future order they are able to spread the refund cost over the two orders. Which is clever tactics but a little cheeky. Hopefully someone from the European Mint will see this thread, take the comments on board and consider changing how they do business.

Now don't forget with Brexit coming up and probably a deal on WTO terms, you won't be getting the same prices after the new year, you'll probably have to pay 20% VAT on the silver as soon as it crosses our shores. So this business may lose a lot of its UK business, by improving standards, being more open with the quality of the coins, they may be able to hold on to some of their UK customers.

 

[StackemHigh]

IMHO if service or quality doesn't impress then i would shop elsewhere. There are plenty of different sources of precious metals and in general not too many have massive problems.  Some of the best vendors will have problems now and then but it's only then you will find out how good they are. Royal mint have a terrible QC department as did RCM and i haven't bought any of their goods in recent years.  I still collect silver and gold and would expect quality but if it's cheap go cheap. If it's quality that's wanted then i feel then you have to pay just a bit more.

[Roy]

Hi @thesongofthunder

It's been 2 weeks now and you still haven't made an introduction post.

Roy

 

[songofthunder]

On 04/10/2020 at 18:29, Roy said:

Hi @thesongofthunder

It's been 2 weeks now and you still haven't made an introduction post.

Roy

 

Hi @Roy,

Nice to meet you!

[songofthunder]

Dear silverforum fellows,

Meanwhile I have ordered 5 Britannias from EuropeanMint and believe it or not, I have received them milk spotted. It looks like their promises weren't kept. I have attached some pictures of it. Including the package. 
I am very disappointed.

 

[Faiz]

@thesongofthunder I really feel for you mate. I can't stand milk spotting. It seems however airtight you keep Bullion grade coins, they ultimately develop some spotting. I've also noticed that if the coins experience the cold, they are more likely to milk spot. I have moved away from stacking Bullion grade coins, as they all seem to suffer from this issue to some degree. I hope you can get your money back on these ones, as I wouldn't accept them in this condition. I can't help but wonder whether the European Mint has issues with their sourcing of coins. No evidence, just a thought that occurred to me when this thread was started.

[Coolsmp]

I wonder how the EU mint stores its silver. Anyone know???

[Hunter87]

On 28/09/2020 at 18:12, thesongofthunder said:

Heya,

I thought I should share this with y'all: 

https://www.trustpilot.com/reviews/5f6bad86798e6f0aa4e2e90f

It looks like I am not the only one in this situation. If EUmint will keep following this bad business model, it will spread and clients will stop buying from them. I know I will think twice before purchasing from now on.

Thank you!

 

On 28/09/2020 at 18:32, BackyardBullion said:

This is what pissed you off? A €20 refund is about 9% of your order value and way more margin than the dealers make on these coins. 

Out of interest, what resolution were you expecting or would be happy with?

I’m guessing  he would be happy with the order he got minus the milk sports.... it’s not rocket science.

[Hunter87]

On 07/10/2020 at 10:24, thesongofthunder said:

Dear silverforum fellows,

Meanwhile I have ordered 5 Britannias from EuropeanMint and believe it or not, I have received them milk spotted. It looks like their promises weren't kept. I have attached some pictures of it. Including the package. 
I am very disappointed.

 

Looks like someone spunked over the lot of em!  

[BackyardBullion]

14 minutes ago, Hunter87 said:

 

I’m guessing  he would be happy with the order he got minus the milk sports.... it’s not rocket science.

You have taken my comment out of context - he said he was annoyed with the response, not the fact the coins had milk spots. Apparently it is rocket science. 

[Hunter87]

Doesn’t anyone else find it strange that BYB is so quick to stick up for the European milky mint. I guess he won’t bite the hand that feeds. 

[ChrisSilver]

Members are asked to please discuss/debate respectfully, even if opinions differ between one another. 

[silenceissilver]

I can understand both sides. Obviously no one wants milk spots. I have to say I have ordered a few monster boxes from them, I had no issue. At least the last time I looked, which was quite a while ago, they had no milk spots.

I think it's a fair point not to blame the seller but the mint. My monster boxes were sealed and the European Mint would not have been able to tell if they had milk spots or not. And for smaller purchases, with those margins, they can't check every coin or tube and even if they did and went into a big fuss with the mint, they would have to increase their prices, I assume.

But then of course, as buyer, how do you get the mint not to send such coins to retailers? By making a big fuss, of course. So I understand that too. But, I think there is a better solution and also I think the European Mint has very good prices, if a lot of people make a fuss, the prices necessarily will go up and that's principally true for all dealers. After Brexit it won't really matter a lot, as I expect the European Mint will lose most of their UK customers because of the different tax situation then.

Some say, they went away from silver or modern silver coins for because of that issue.

If you want to buy modern silver coins, the best reaction in my opinoin would be to go to coins that don't milk spot. This will tell the other mints, to take care of this issue.

I have not bought any silver in a while but it's my understanding the Canadian mint shield technology works.

So, if you want to make sure you don't have milk spots, buy Maples. If they increase their market share enough, other mints will stop producing milking coins, too.

 

[Faiz]

"Canadian mint shield technology", is this new? 

[RiverbankSilver]

Milkys are everywhere ....

Take a look at this coin at the time 7.20.

•  
•  
•  
•  

 

[silenceissilver]

1 hour ago, Faiz said:

"Canadian mint shield technology", is this new? 

In place since 2018

https://blog.providentmetals.com/new-rcm-mintshield-technology-reduces-milk-spotting.htm

 

[silversky]

My experience of milk spotting is that it tends to develop within a few months rather than years if it's going to.  It's therefore entirely possible to buy a brand new Royal Mint coin from ANY dealer and within a short time span find that it's gone all milky.  BU is essentially bullion in all but name only and it can certainly have milk spots on it without it being against the BU trade description.  It's just not made crystal clear that there's a chance that your coins might be milky.  Don't blame the dealer though, blame the mint.  If you doubt me, just ask the mint if a milked coin meets their BU standard.  I dare you. 

They only replace milky special coins or proofs that were bought (at a premium) directly from them.  Anyway, BU is just a razzmatazz word for bullion with some wordsmith tiny difference which is irrelevant, If you buy a BU coin at a standard premium to spot then you ARE buying it as bullion for it's metal content.  You may wish that their beautiful artwork designs were better preserved on a better medium through a better manufacturing process, but they aren't!    That is just the cruel and frustrating reality and they don't care.  If you bought some fine art painted onto basic printer paper, you wouldn't be surprised when it yellowed a bit over time would you?  And you certainly wouldn't blame the auctioneer.

If you search for complaints about milked coins, two mints consistently compete for the top spot.  I think we all know which ones they are!!!  Perth Mint on the other hand, did a lot of work to make sure that their 999 silver doesn't suffer milking and they have a fantastic record for quality control.  Some of their BU coins come with very delicate frosting and some actually look like proof coins they're so well made.  I have heard the odd tale of milk spots on Perth Mint coins but I've never actually seen any in person.  It's certainly very rare if indeed it's real rather than just poor handling or a storage issue.

Anyway, my point is that it's not a dealer's fault that Royal Mint products are made with casual attention to their milk problem.  If one buys a product that most newbies know has a tendency to suffer from milk problems, one shouldn't be surprised when they develop them a few months later or even if they arrive with the marks straight away.  If you want milk free Royal Mint coins, buy them second hand, a year or so after release.  You can confirm with the seller that they're good examples and that they're completely free of milk.  It's either that or accept that you may need to buy a few before getting a good enough example to fill a gap in your collection.

The moral of the story is that if you want low premium BU coins that don't milk, don't buy British.  I'm very sad to say that but until the RM properly get their act together, I'm not going to blindly support them out of a sense of patriotism.  Don't get me wrong, I'd love to champion the Royal Mint because I love their recent designs, but their care over the canvass they're minting onto is just not good enough for me to treat them like collectors coins.  It's frustrating but it's best dealt with by using your wallet.  Buy a different mint's product.

[HawkHybrid]

On 07/10/2020 at 10:24, thesongofthunder said:

Dear silverforum fellows,

Meanwhile I have ordered 5 Britannias from EuropeanMint and believe it or not, I have received them milk spotted. It looks like their promises weren't kept. I have attached some pictures of it. Including the package. 
I am very disappointed.

 

to avoid disappointment, stop ordering from a company that supplies products below the

standard of quality that you consider to be acceptable? it's not stated, but coins are not

guaranteed to be non-milk spotted. if you want a non-milk spotted coin then you need to

pay more to someone/company that guarantees it won't be milk spotted. the basic bullion

britannia is just that, the lowest quality(on average) britannia that is newly minted. buying

newly minted bullion is rolling the dice. bullion coins are guaranteed to be of a certain weight,

purity and of a certain design. there is no guarantee that it will be of a certain numismatic

grade unless separately specified.

as others have already stated you need to work it out what you are actually buying(ignore

the marketing), and if it will fit your purpose.

 

HH