Stacking Silver, paying VAT. Best ways to Stack??

[Tnate]

Hi Guys, first post in the forum and I hope to be able to add some value to this community! But I to need some help.

I have recently been putting money into "digital" silver on royalmint.com. 

I am based in the UK and although I've timed my purchases quite well, and currently should be up on my investment, I am not. I can only imagine this is because I have been paying VAT on the silver I've been buying. 

What I'd really love to know is the place to park my hard earned cash into Silver, without having to pay VAT and large fee's etc? 

I should say that I am really only STACKING because I know that silver and gold is SOUND money, and I want to be exposed to what I believe is the coming price discovery on silver (and gold), and also I want my money to not lose it's value by staying in FIAT! 

Thanks guys any help is much appreciated in advance,

Taylor 

 

[BackyardBullion]

I'm not 100% on this because I have not used the Royal mint digital service but I am pretty sure no VAT is charged unless you take delivery of your physical silver, so it won't be that. It is just likely that the price paid on Royal mint is way higher than other potential vaulting services out there 

If you want physical silver at the cheapest price then buying from EU until end of December is your best bet - lower rates (or 0% for Estonia) of VAT.

Beyond that, 2nd hand silver is possible to get cheap, but even the cheapest silver right now is going to be 15% to 20% over spot price.

If you want a better asset for liability swings of percentage then go gold every time.

 

[Tnate]

Thanks for the message, 

I know they've included the VAT in my purchases when I place the orders. and there prices are currently at £21.29 per OZ , at 17:45pm GMT 15/09/2020. which is quite competitive to my research?

What would you say is the best way to stack silver/precious metals in terms of ROI? (Return on Investment). If it's holding actual physical silver coins with me at home in a safe then I would be willing to do that. But for convenience I would prefer to just have my holdings digital. Obviously there is the risk of third parties with the way I've currently started doing it, but it's all a learning curve hey?

when you say EU do you mean EU section of this forum?

Also, do you have any experience with Trusts / ETFs? 

At the end of the day ROI is my aim.

Thanks for the message BackyardBullion, Appreciate it 

[HighlandTiger]

You shouldn't be paying VAT on digital silver. Check out bullionvault, if you want to buy silver and leave it in storage.

 

Although £21.29 looks only a fraction above spot price at the time of your orders, so doesn't look like any VAT on it to me.  

[BackyardBullion]

14 minutes ago, Tnate said:

Thanks for the message, 

I know they've included the VAT in my purchases when I place the orders. and there prices are currently at £21.29 per OZ , at 17:45pm GMT 15/09/2020. which is quite competitive to my research?

What would you say is the best way to stack silver/precious metals in terms of ROI? (Return on Investment). If it's holding actual physical silver coins with me at home in a safe then I would be willing to do that. But for convenience I would prefer to just have my holdings digital. Obviously there is the risk of third parties with the way I've currently started doing it, but it's all a learning curve hey?

when you say EU do you mean EU section of this forum?

Also, do you have any experience with Trusts / ETFs? 

At the end of the day ROI is my aim.

Thanks for the message BackyardBullion, Appreciate it 

Silver is not an ROI investment. 

Yes, you can earn % points on it but this is the biggest misconception about silver. It is intrinsically linked to buying power of home currencies. 

If you are looking for ROI I would avoid silver and gold and go into stocks/shares/bricks etc. 

If you are looking to preserve your buying power and wealth as it stands today then silver and gold are great assets. 

[Tnate]

15 minutes ago, HighlandTiger said:

You shouldn't be paying VAT on digital silver. Check out bullionvault, if you want to buy silver and leave it in storage.

 

Although £21.29 looks only a fraction above spot price at the time of your orders, so doesn't look like any VAT on it to me.  

That's great thanks, I've just signed up to bullionvault and on their order board now. Looks great and good prices, and so is VAT included in this? 

[BackyardBullion]

2 minutes ago, Tnate said:

That's great thanks, I've just signed up to bullionvault and on their order board now. Looks great and good prices, and so is VAT included in this? 

You should never have to pay VAT on anything you do not take delivery of.

I personally have very little time for vaulting services. They work for some but for me its a completely silly idea to invest in silver this way. 

Here are my opinions on the subject. 

https://youtu.be/u_XMLU_6pb0

 

[Tnate]

4 minutes ago, BackyardBullion said:

Silver is not an ROI investment. 

Yes, you can earn % points on it but this is the biggest misconception about silver. It is intrinsically linked to buying power of home currencies. 

If you are looking for ROI I would avoid silver and gold and go into stocks/shares/bricks etc. 

If you are looking to preserve your buying power and wealth as it stands today then silver and gold are great assets. 

Yeah I understand what you mean, although with the current state of affairs in the world I do believe there is a lot of price discovery to be had with many precious metals. But aside from that I am also definitely looking to preserve purchasing power as well as let my cash grow

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Added 0 minutes later...

Thanks very much, I'll check out your video 

1 minute ago, BackyardBullion said:

You should never have to pay VAT on anything you do not take delivery of.

I personally have very little time for vaulting services. They work for some but for me its a completely silly idea to invest in silver this way. 

Here are my opinions on the subject. 

https://youtu.be/u_XMLU_6pb0

 

 

[Martlet]

1 hour ago, BackyardBullion said:

I'm not 100% on this because I have not used the Royal mint digital service but I am pretty sure no VAT is charged unless you take delivery of your physical silver, so it won't be that.

I'm not sure why this error has persisted in our community so long, but VAT is charged on vaulted silver in the UK.  Services offering VAT-free vaulted silver are storing it in vaults outside the EU, in Switzerland or Guernsey for example.  Unfortunately Royal Mint Digital is stored onshore so charged VAT. 

[BackyardBullion]

1 minute ago, Martlet said:

I'm not sure why this error has persisted in our community so long, but VAT is charged on vaulted silver in the UK.  Services offering VAT-free vaulted silver are storing it in vaults outside the EU, in Switzerland or Guernsey for example.  Unfortunately Royal Mint Digital is stored onshore so charged VAT. 

 

There you go - thanks for the clarification!

[Tnate]

So to clarify with you BYB, physical silver coins, without VAT, is a great way to go to get the most out of your Fiat Currency.

Can you recommend some trusted "EU" places to buy silver from please?

as you say, if now until december is the best time to buy, I'll love to start accumulating as soon as possible. 

 

Who really knows how much time we have ! 

[BackyardBullion]

2 minutes ago, Tnate said:

So to clarify with you BYB, physical silver coins, without VAT, is a great way to go to get the most out of your Fiat Currency.

Can you recommend some trusted "EU" places to buy silver from please?

as you say, if now until december is the best time to buy, I'll love to start accumulating as soon as possible. 

 

Who really knows how much time we have ! 

Every time go for https://www.europeanmint.com/

[sixgun]

1 hour ago, Martlet said:

I'm not sure why this error has persisted in our community so long, but VAT is charged on vaulted silver in the UK.  Services offering VAT-free vaulted silver are storing it in vaults outside the EU, in Switzerland or Guernsey for example.  Unfortunately Royal Mint Digital is stored onshore so charged VAT. 

If the silver is in a 'bonded warehouse' it should not be liable to VAT. There are dealers who say they vault the silver in the UK.

https://www.thegoldbullion.co.uk/gold-bullion-storage/buy-vat-free-silver/

[sixgun]

i would get hold of some physical silver in hand. Always good to have physical with you. 

If you want VAT free vaulted silver and gold you could take a look at https://kinesis.money

There is a youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXJEH6DxUixkTYhH4XxI7kQ and Telegram thread https://web.telegram.org/#/im?p=@kinesismoney
When the project gets going there will be yields on metal held and no vaulting fees. 

[Divmad]

On 15/09/2020 at 18:58, BackyardBullion said:

Every time go for https://www.europeanmint.com/

That's a joke, right? I've just looked at their current Silver price list, with Spot Silver at €19.67.

The cheapest silver coin is priced at €24.5, and the most expensive is over €50. And these are quoted before transportation to the UK!!!

So a Silver "investor" pays a premium over spot through this "cheap" EU dealer of between 25% and 150%, before postage. That's the hurdle rate that the said "investor" must overcome, if and when he wants to cash in his investment, back to ANY dealer. Good luck with that strategy.

 

I'm not really rounding on EuropeanMint, by the way. It is immaterial which dealer you choose for this comparison. It's just a seller's market. Caveat emptor.

Best to accumulate circulated silver coins at or below spot. But they're not pretty to look at or to hold, are they.

DYOR.

[BackyardBullion]

1 minute ago, Divmad said:

That's a joke, right? I've just looked at their current Silver price list, with Spot Silver at €19.67.

The cheapest silver coin is priced at €24.5, and the most expensive is over €50. And these are quoted before transportation to the UK!!!

So a Silver "investor" pays a premium over spot through this "cheap" EU dealer of between 25% and 150%, before postage. That's the hurdle rate that the said "investor" must overcome, if and when he wants to cash in his investment, back to ANY dealer. Good luck with that strategy.

 

I'm not really rounding on EuropeanMint, by the way. It is immaterial which dealer you choose for this comparison. It's just a seller's market. Caveat emptor.

Best to accumulate circulated silver coins at or below spot. But they're not pretty to look at or to hold, are they.

DYOR.

Not sure you are fully understanding how silver purchasing in the UK/EU from dealers (not second hand market) works.

This premium over spot price is basically as good as it gets for new silver at the moment. Pre-covid the premium was about 15% for the cheapest silver coins. 

The €50 coins will be collectable coins, not bullion coins.

When selling silver at the other end, yes if you go to a dealer they will give you a spot price buyback - that's a big swing and a it potential liability. If you take the time to sell your coins on the second hand market you can easily achieve better prices for items. You see it every day here on the forum, private sellers sell silver for £22 to £25 per oz every day!

It's about how much work you want to put into things.

That's the nuts and bolts of it.

So in answer to your question, no - I am not joking that the EU mint is the place I would recommend every time for silver purchasing if that is a decision you have made and want to buy silver.

[HighlandTiger]

On 15/09/2020 at 18:08, Tnate said:

That's great thanks, I've just signed up to bullionvault and on their order board now. Looks great and good prices, and so is VAT included in this? 

There is no VAT because all the silver and gold are kept in bonded warehouses

[HighlandTiger]

On 15/09/2020 at 18:12, BackyardBullion said:

You should never have to pay VAT on anything you do not take delivery of.

I personally have very little time for vaulting services. They work for some but for me its a completely silly idea to invest in silver this way. 

Here are my opinions on the subject. 

https://youtu.be/u_XMLU_6pb0

 

Vaulting services are probably the best way to invest in Silver, IF and this is an important IF.... you buy silver on a monthly basis. That way the monthly fees can be incorporated into the cost of each monthly purchase. Fees far less than any premium on coins/bars etc

It has by far the smallest premium / spread of any physical pm asset. With the ability to buy and sell instantly. 

People rarely think of the end game and how you will sell their silver.

To me, this is the most important thing in stacking silver. Forget obsessing how to buy cheaply, people should be obsessing on how to sell quickly at a maximum price

 

However, everyone has differences of opinion, no one is right, no one is wrong. Everyone has to find their own way.

[HighlandTiger]

On 15/09/2020 at 18:50, Martlet said:

I'm not sure why this error has persisted in our community so long, but VAT is charged on vaulted silver in the UK.  Services offering VAT-free vaulted silver are storing it in vaults outside the EU, in Switzerland or Guernsey for example.  Unfortunately Royal Mint Digital is stored onshore so charged VAT. 

Sorry , but I'm afraid you are wrong.

 

This is a quote from bullionvault

How to buy silver bullion online at the lowest costs

You can buy and own investment silver in a number of ways. The key difference and biggest cost factor is whether you are charged VAT or sales tax. Investment silver stored in a London Bullion Market Association (LBMA) approved vault is exempt of VAT.