All! Beware of fake gold graded coins in fake holders

[bft6969]

Hi All, 

Some pictures fake gold coins along with fake graded holders  on Ebay..

As always, be careful everyone. 

[Ravoma]

This is why I would never use fleabay 😡

[Booky586]

How do you tell if a slabbed coin is a fake? 

Take the 1oz American buffalo 2011-W. I've just submitted the unique number on the pcgs website and it came back verified. Can you share the distinguishing features you are using to recognise the counterfeit?

[dicker]

Indeed.  Two weeks ago, I messaged an eBay seller who had a few coins for sale.  One of which was a US Trade dollars that was very obviously counterfeit.  
 

I messaged him to say it was counterfeit and the reply back was “who do you thing you effing are the eBay police”.  
 

I strongly suspect he knew what he was selling, and I reported the counterfeit and it was removed.  
 

People do all sorts of things to make their sales look genuine, so thanks for posting. 
 

Best

Dicker

[bft6969]

14 minutes ago, Booky586 said:

How do you tell if a slabbed coin is a fake? 

Take the 1oz American buffalo 2011-W. I've just submitted the unique number on the pcgs website and it came back verified. Can you share the distinguishing features you are using to recognise the counterfeit?

Hi Booky586 , 

So far, I've seen many of the counterfeit slabbed dated 2011 - W buffalo's . I'm not sure why the 2011 W buffalo's. My own experience handling enough buffalo gold coins, I can just spot the quality just looking at the pictures. I don't know how to tell fake slabs, but as for the buffalo's I can tell by looking at it. 

But here's some legit pictures of real 2011-W buffalo in PCGS holder. 

[bft6969]

Here are some more 2011-W buffalo fakes & fake NGC holder. 

 

 

[Booky586]

Yes, I see now, thanks for the extra information. It's easier to see the difference between genuine and fake coins by comparison.

I used to think buying slabbed coins was a safe option, but I've come to realise that it's much harder to check if one is genuine. You can't measure it's diameter, thickness or weight accurately without having to break the coin out, which defeats the object of buying slabbed in the first place.

[Robb]

22 hours ago, Booky586 said:

You can't measure it's diameter, thickness or weight accurately without having to break the coin out, which defeats the object of buying slabbed in the first place.

That is why I purchased a Sigma Metalytics Verifier, which can read most coins through the slab using one of the accessory wands.   Why people slab common bullion coins is beyond my understanding but I guess there is a market for them.

[Abyss]

Before started stacking came across lots of YouTube videos of fake Gold. In the end it formed part of my strategy to avoid graded coins or bars in assay wallets. As soon as I receive package regardless if it is from a dealer or private sale I will perform a video recorded unboxing using caliper, scales and neodymium magnet. Any doubt move onto a gravity test. I personally want to be able to hold my coins and test them without any obstacles (assay card / graded holder) getting in the way.

Only buy from reputable dealers/private individuals I was so tempted to buy 1 oz Gold Britannia bar for absolutely ages but in the end because it did not fit my strategy I avoided the purchase.

You only have to search on wish and amount of fake gold bars/nuggets/coins from China is unbelievable. If it was not for all these fakes I truly believe a lot more of the general public would be involved in wealth preservation via holding onto precious metals.

All photos below for fake Gold on wish. If you spot any of these on eBay I avoid like the plague.....

 

 

[Ravoma]

Ohhh glowy shoes for £1 sign me up!

[Gordon]

I was talking to a guy a couple of weeks ago about gold and he showed me a photo of his gold stack and he had a fake 1oz gold ngc graded coin in there that i could tell was fake right away. So i let him know that it was a fake. But he had the coin to long to return it through ebay so i told him to open a case with paypal and i think he got his money back

[Heirlooms]

6 hours ago, Abyss said:

I was so tempted to buy 1 oz Gold Britannia bar for absolutely ages but in the end because it did not fit my strategy I avoided the purchase.

I agree on the gold in assays. My temptation is a 1oz Geiger. Lovely bar but in reality it doesn't fit my strategy ☹️

[WickedD]

Came across this terrible fake the other day myself! I thought to myself at the time, this coin looks really wanky for a Perth mint coin! I screenshot it to share with my son as a buyer beware message in case he was purchasing coins by slab grades....

 

[FabulousLunar]

New type of fakes I see last time on ebay. All pictures very unclear, however on picture with queen you can clearly see fake coin. I'm not sure why they made so unclear pictures, maybe to avoid ebay rules and eBay Money Back Guarantee.

Edited November 8, 2020 by FabulousLunar

[Hunter87]

The label should have a UV security Mark on it.

[HighlandTiger]

This thread is the reason I won't touch slabbed coins. Every year the fakes get better and better, and I strongly believe that within 5 years fakes will be indistinguishable from the real thing unless you break open the slab and check the coin.

Just wait until 3D printing gets out of it's infancy and into its element. 

[FabulousLunar]

1 hour ago, HighlandTiger said:

This thread is the reason I won't touch slabbed coins. Every year the fakes get better and better, and I strongly believe that within 5 years fakes will be indistinguishable from the real thing unless you break open the slab and check the coin.

Just wait until 3D printing gets out of it's infancy and into its element. 

It depends on coin. I don't think we gonna see indistinguishable fakes for proof modern coins and bullion coins made by Perth Mint for example. Just because technology is too complex. And too easy to find that out. As for old coins we already have such fakes.. I don't want to be unfounded but 2 years ago I read on biggest Russian numismatic forum topic where expert said that NGC graded coin very likely was fake. And I can believe in that, as it is obvious that Russian expert have much more experience in Russian coins than American expert. It was gold coin made from real gold, but it has huge numismatic premium. That was a reason why I decided to skip old coins. Too risky.

[WMLB]

My first post here....Thank God for this forum and for bft6969's post. I just almost got taken by the fake buffalo mentioned here on Craigslist. https://chicago.craigslist.org/sox/clt/d/oak-lawn-gold-buffalo-coin/7236421934.html I was moments away from meeting up to purchase this when I got suspicious. The seller offered to sell it to me for $73 under spot and I wondered why he would not just stumble into any coin shop. That is when I found this thread and decided to investigate further.

It seems there are too many coins with the same PCGS number out there.  

PCGS company cannot verify the authenticity of the coin. 506885.70/81852632

https://www.pcgs.com/cert type in this number 81852632 and you get "Notice from PCGS Management: If you own the item with this certification number, please contact Stephanie Marine at 949-567-1296 for an important message."

Here is one for sale with the exact same PCGS number for $2600. https://www.ebay.com/itm/50-American-Buffalo-9999-Fine-Gold-PCGS-/392968098714 probably also a fake

Anyway. Thank you thank you thank you bft6969.

This internet company uses the same PCGS number as well... https://www.moderncoinmart.com/2011-w-50-gold-buffalo-pcgs-pr70-dcam-proof-70-deep-cameo.html 

Edit:Getting to the bottom of it....

 Here is the end of the trail. Same PCGS number shipped direct from China Gold plated Tungsten  

https://www.bonanza.com/listings/American-Buffalo-2011-fine-gold-plated-1-5-grams-999-gold-graded-PF70-one-troy/619403465

Edited December 1, 2020 by WMLB
Getting to the bottom of it

[bft6969]

@WMLB , 

I'm glad my post helped you . Just always be careful . 

Great job on doing more deep research to get to the bottom of it. 👍

"If it sounds too good to be true, then its probably not" 🙌 

🍻

[dicker]

The giveaway is the poor quality rendering of the Indian head.  
 

It will be harder when the counterfeiters up their game.  
 

Best

Dicker

[BullionExchanges]

Not sure if anyone has seen the new PCGS slabs, but they have updated them to be even more secure than they have previously been. Has anyone had any experience with the new slabs?

Here's some info if any of you are not up to date on the new features in their packaging https://www.valuewalk.com/2020/10/pcgs-nfc-insert-challenges-counterfeiting/

Also, we posted a video on how to use their app with the new slabs. 

 

[Connor]

On 14/09/2020 at 20:38, Booky586 said:

How do you tell if a slabbed coin is a fake? 

Take the 1oz American buffalo 2011-W. I've just submitted the unique number on the pcgs website and it came back verified. Can you share the distinguishing features you are using to recognise the counterfeit?

I would imagine they use the same number from real graded coins on the counterfeit 

[FabulousLunar]

Noticed that dragon on ebay. Seller has very high reputation with no negative feedback and lots of real coins on sale. However dragon in fake slab looks fake to me. Here is images and image of original perth mint coin from same seller in original slab. Difference can be clearly seen. Beware. Those fakes looks better each year.

[Ceaiu]

There are (coin) accessory producers like Lighthouse that have in their offer slabs, so you could label and slab your own coins if you like consistency in storage /presentation.

I don't know if that's the case here...

[FabulousLunar]

Idk about slab itself, but I clearly see that coin is fake..