Gold is Tanking

[Pete]

Holy sh*t - have you been monitoring the gold price lately ?

Is this for real or is there FIFA style work going on ?

 

A great time to buy if you can find gold for sale at a reasonable margin but pity all the folks that dived in deep as gold was seen as a fairly safe investment.

[Kman]

A great time to buy if you can find gold for sale at a reasonable margin but pity all the folks that dived in deep as gold was seen as a fairly safe investment.

 

I assume anyone who was buying gold wasn't looking to sell 1-2 years in the future, hopefully more 15+ 

 

Also this is why buying numismatic stuff from HGM is much better than just gold for gold, insulated against spot drops 

[Pete]

I assume anyone who was buying gold wasn't looking to sell 1-2 years in the future, hopefully more 15+ 

 

Also this is why buying numismatic stuff from HGM is much better than just gold for gold, insulated against spot drops 

 

Numi's from HGM - how often does that crop up or is there a special alert you can sign up to ?

[Cointreau]

Been offline for a couple days. That was some smackdown Sunday night.

[Kman]

Numi's from HGM - how often does that crop up or is there a special alert you can sign up to ?

 

I must have seen 20 or so Vic shield sovereigns in the past 2/3 months 

 

+ American stuff

 

+ I know Steve got a 1887 £5 for 3% spot 

 

If everyone on the forum said what they had got from HGM numi gold wise in the past 90 days I think it would make a pretty impressive list 

[morezone]

Those working and without regular access to a PC or phone to monitor HGM don't stand much of a chance of getting anything decent.

 

Demand far outstrips supply and if I'd bought only numi gold from HGM as and when I saw it, I would only have a fraction of my current holdings.

[Pete]

I was unaware that HGM would even know the dates of their bullion coins let alone if they were worth more.

Thought they just counted them in and out and set their prices as 3 or 4% over London am fix on the day.

I've just ordered a few sovereigns because the price is so attractive and was surprised to see they had a large amount in stock earlier today.

Pretty bad time to be selling I guess but then who can tell what's round the corner ?

[Kman]

I was unaware that HGM would even know the dates of their bullion coins let alone if they were worth more.

 

They list all Victoria shields at 15% spot

 

If you ring up they will tell you the dates 

[Pete]

They list all Victoria shields at 15% spot

 

If you ring up they will tell you the dates 

 

Must be on the wrong site -  but where do they show Victorian Shields ?

I can see lots of coins listed ( all out of stock now ) but no mention of V.S. or any other category of sovereign or half sovereign.

[Kman]

Must be on the wrong site -  but where do they show Victorian Shields ?

I can see lots of coins listed ( all out of stock now ) but no mention of V.S. or any other category of sovereign or half sovereign.

 

http://www.hattongardenmetals.com/buy/cid0/all-stock

 

That's the link for their in stock items

 

All they have in atm is an Austria 100 corona 

 

Anything good is sold within a couple minutes 

[Bumble]

Holy sh*t - have you been monitoring the gold price lately ?

Is this for real or is there FIFA style work going on ?

 

To answer this question, consider the following. Suppose you are a genuine seller with 50+ tonnes of gold to sell. As a genuine seller, you obviously want to get the best price for your gold, so you want to sell when the market is liquid and lots of buyers are around. Do you:

(a) Divide your gold into several modest amounts, then sell them across several days, choosing to sell them between 13:00 and 17:00 UK time, so that the two biggest exchanges in the world, London and NY, are both trading; or

(b ) Sell the whole lot in one go on a Sunday evening UK time, so that London and NY are asleep, and for good measure choosing a day when Japan has a public holiday.

 

If you answered this question correctly, reward yourself with a cookie. You are now more intelligent and better informed than 99% of the commentators in the public media.

[HawkHybrid]

To answer this question, consider the following. Suppose you are a genuine seller with 50+ tonnes of gold to sell. As a genuine seller, you obviously want to get the best price for your gold, so you want to sell when the market is liquid and lots of buyers are around. Do you:

(a) Divide your gold into several modest amounts, then sell them across several days, choosing to sell them between 13:00 and 17:00 UK time, so that the two biggest exchanges in the world, London and NY, are both trading; or

(b ) Sell the whole lot in one go on a Sunday evening UK time, so that London and NY are asleep, and for good measure choosing a day when Japan has a public holiday.

 

If you answered this question correctly, reward yourself with a cookie. You are now more intelligent and better informed than 99% of the commentators in the public media.

 

I'm going to eat my cookie and then answer b, 

 

there's actually a bit more to it than that. technically, strangely

enough choosing b, might actually make you more money than

choosing a,. it's all paper trading, if the result is a push for gold

to reach ~$1000 and you manage to pile in all your proceeds from

selling your 50 tons, you will then be holding more paper gold.

realistically speaking it much higher risk.

 

HH

[Paul]

..............or if you are in the bankster gansgter cartel of thievery world of Global Money Inc & you have access to limitless £,£££,£££ fiat leverage and zero near % borrowing  - you take your positions, make your decision (red/red/odd/even/up/down) you initiate the trade with the intent of buying back on the other side it is a win win.

 

The physical gold is actually irrelevent. No extra metal is mined, no wages paid, material processed, no refining costs, distribution or logistics.

 

Heck its just figures on a screen 

[Bumble]

Well indeed, you can make money on option b. It is like pump and dump in reverse. Do that with stocks and you risk the FSA jumping on you. Do it with gold however, and the regulators turn a blind eye, because the authorities are OK with gold falling. Paul's question was, is it real or is it fraud? It's manipulation and we can expect it to continue.

 

What can you do about? Again, two main options. You can just be sanguine. After all, the best reason to buy gold is simply because you want to own it. If it becomes cheaper, that's great, just buy more. What does it matter if the amount of central bank debt currency your gold buys goes down? If you are sensible, you are not buying gold just to exchange it for more debt currency later. Gold retains its purchasing power over the long run, whereas debt currency doesn't.

 

The other option, only for the adventurous, is to buy physical gold and hedge it with a paper short, such as an inverse ETF like DGLD, DZZ or GLL.

[Murph]

I've yet to see anything like older US coins or shield sovs on HGM but I don't look every two minutes during the day.

I can't recall buying anything from them recently either.

[DRooster]

Can you folks help me understand something about gold buying/selling, using HGM as an example?

To people who have bought gold coins over the last few years this new lower price is making (for example) £700-ish coins feel like bargains compared to the same coins that were £900-ish ...

therefore more gold buyers are buying coins and when HGM puts some up for sale they're "snapped up"?

Have I got this right?

[Stu]

HGM typically sell 95% of their gold for 3% over the spot price. Other bullion dealers will give you this rate on a special offer for a limited number of coins however others coins from dealers are 10%+

[Danny-boy]

Intriguing to see if the usual Friday smackdown happens tomorrow, possibly new lows.

[Pete]

Can you folks help me understand something about gold buying/selling, using HGM as an example?

To people who have bought gold coins over the last few years this new lower price is making (for example) £700-ish coins feel like bargains compared to the same coins that were £900-ish ...

therefore more gold buyers are buying coins and when HGM puts some up for sale they're "snapped up"?

Have I got this right?

 

Simplistically yes - stackers who paid £900+ for a one ounce coin will be disappointed ( that's polite terminology ) but if they are willing to add by buying the same coin for £700 that's a bargain assuming gold recovers in the future. With such relatively low prices right now ALL gold is snapped up BUT who are these people selling right now ? Are they people who have inherited gold from their deceased family or are they people ( like us ) that think the only way for PMs is down and getting out to minimise losses ?

[Kman]

Can you folks help me understand something about gold buying/selling, using HGM as an example?

To people who have bought gold coins over the last few years this new lower price is making (for example) £700-ish coins feel like bargains compared to the same coins that were £900-ish ...

therefore more gold buyers are buying coins and when HGM puts some up for sale they're "snapped up"?

Have I got this right?

 

The most I've paid for an oz was £830 - a 1oz Briannia

 

That was when I was starting out and I look back on it as a mistake now, much rather have put the money into numismatic gold from HGM, specifically shield sovereigns

 

I've been waiting for the spot price to go up so I could sell them and swap them out for shields when HGM have them, but in the meantime spot price has tanked

 

It's not a big deal, I don't need to sell anything, would enjoy having the sovereigns more but just can't bring myself to sell at a loss..

 

I should say also that I still have money to buy more shields so it's not really a problem, maybe I just like to moan 

[Scuzzle]

I've not long started in gold and I bought in at £800 an ounce only a few months ago, now it's heading to nearer £700 I feel have to keep buying though if only to reduce my average, I bought 4x half sovereigns today and just those alone brought my average ounce price down by £15.  The way I figure it is if I chicken out and sell up I've lost out but if I keep buying as gold prices drop the lower I can make my average price per ounce the sooner gold prices will go above it when it goes the other way.  And I do believe it will go the other way eventually, the big money men play around with everything bonds, stocks, commodities etc, keeping them low while they buy then making them high when they sell and golds time will come again and I plan to be hanging on to the coats tails of the big hitters when that time comes.

[KDave]

I've not long started in gold and I bought in at £800 an ounce only a few months ago, now it's heading to nearer £700 I feel have to keep buying though if only to reduce my average, I bought 4x half sovereigns today and just those alone brought my average ounce price down by £15.  The way I figure it is if I chicken out and sell up I've lost out but if I keep buying as gold prices drop the lower I can make my average price per ounce the sooner gold prices will go above it when it goes the other way.  And I do believe it will go the other way eventually, the big money men play around with everything bonds, stocks, commodities etc, keeping them low while they buy then making them high when they sell and golds time will come again and I plan to be hanging on to the coats tails of the big hitters when that time comes.

It seems many commodities are falling in price in recent times. I would guess the big boys are not involved in driving demand for everything down but I could be wrong. Falling prices usually reflect a fall in global demand or an increase in global supply. I believe it is the former and that the prices are a sign of economic contraction. This theory is supported by the ongoing record low Baltic Dry index figures - check for yourself. 

 

In this context, ask yourself - If the price of everything falls at the same time, is you gold really worth less than when you bought it?

 

Here is an interesting video by Belangp that puts this idea to the test;

 

[Scuzzle]

Cheers KDave,  I'm happy to take the chance on gold and silver, you are right that everything is going down but as to how much manipulation is involved in keeping every down I'm not sure but I'm sure that PM's are heavily manipulated.  I'm also happy to wait as long as it takes for them to snap back like they have in the past, notably the 2x periods when the price trebled.   As my new hobby it's actually nice not to kiss goodbye to my cash completely like I have with all my previous interests.  

[Bumble]

As KDave says, commodity prices generally are falling. As a result, miners are being hit particularly hard, because their margins are really thin. Here is a recent story from Bloomberg that Lonmin are closing a big platinum mine.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-07-24/the-world-s-third-biggest-platinum-miner-just-announced-that-it-s-cutting-production

 

If the downward trend in prices continues, we will start to see gold mining contracting too. Silver is slightly different, because most silver is produced as a by-product from mining other metals, such as lead or copper. But the good thing about buying gold and silver coins is that their value can never go to zero. By contrast, shares and bonds can. Even cash in extreme circumstances: Zimbabwe recently finally accounced that their dollar is being phased out and people who still hold any will be compensated at a rate of 1 US dollar for every 35 quadrillion Zimbabwean dollars.

http://www.rt.com/business/267244-zimbabwe-currency-compensation-hyperinflation/

[Melon]

Great, everything falling except for house prices which decide to spiral upwards right when I start looking