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Anonymity


Dimitri

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Hi all,

Apologies if this has been answered a thousand times before, but I'm a bit of a newbie so would massively appreciate any advice you knowledgeable people might have. Anyway, here goes for my first post on the forum 😬

Am looking to buy some sovs and maybe a couple of half-sovs (approx £2500 worth in total) and want to do so anonymously - ie. no name or address. I thought paying cash at a dealer would work under a certain limit, but having spoken to a couple of London dealers, it turns out they require id for any purchase of gold. Online seems like a no-go given the need to create an account and to have the coins sent to my address.

How do you people get round this issue?

Many thanks

Dimitri

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  • Founder & Administrator

May I ask, why did you want to buy anonymously?

If your sources of income are legitimate, shouldn’t be any harm in showing ID to a well established dealer.

My posts are my personal opinions, they do not constitute advice or financial advice.

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Theoretically, the limit is 5000 Pounds as far as I know but unfortunately, some dealers ask for an ID at any purchase. That's also the case because the limit is not just 5K for one purchase but per year and obviously they could forget you after a few weeks or months, so there is a grey area and they want to cover themselves - also one member here said, they are under pressure from the authorities. Of course it has nothing to to with preventing money laundering (that's done with fake businesses) but with a paranoid state.

I have once bought only 2 Sovereigns at a well known London dealer who wanted to see an ID but also 5 Sovereigns at once and a few more over the same year at an unknown local jeweller. However, his prices were not particularly good.

I think the objection, if you don't have to hide anything, you don't need to worry leaving your ID there is not thought through. I don't do anything abnormal on the toilet too, yet I would not like a record of it stored at a shop or even the government. History - and the present - have shown time and again, you can't trust governments. The reset is coming closer, it's principally unavoidable in a fiat system and the powers that be talk openly about it now (e.g. at the World Economic Forum). Of course many people will lose their savings in this process and the government will grab everything they can. I think a literal gold confiscation is yet unlikely as their are much easier ways to get much bigger amounts, from the people. However, chances are that they will continue to make it more difficult, add more taxes etc, around gold. That is unless their attempts to install socialism backfire, of course.

So, you can only look for more bullion dealers/jewellers till you find one that doesn't require an ID. I have also once bought a Sovereign at a pawn shop, they didn't ask for an ID either, however, their sell (and buy) prices are often (but not always) really bad. But trying them out is most likely a wast of time, chances are really low there. Try small and unknown jewellers and shops that offer antiquities.

Edited by silenceissilver
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26 minutes ago, Dimitri said:

Not so much worried, but given that I'm purchasing gold as a long-term way of storing some of my savings, protecting myself against the eventuality of future confiscation seems like a sensible thing to do, however unlikely this eventuality may seem.... today.

If that day ever came you could recount the tale of your unfortunate boating accident. Such a sad story.

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Weird how suspicion is now the default attitude towards someone wanting anonymity - eg. the smaller non-London based dealer I also spoke to this morning, who instantly shut down the conversation, claiming alarm bells were ringing. 

Am wondering if purchasing from abroad solves the problem?

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34 minutes ago, Dimitri said:

Am wondering if purchasing from abroad solves the problem?

For 2.5K it hardly pays off to go abroad for buying it I guess but maybe it does somewhat with a 50 Pound Ryan Air flight if you get away with 100 Pounds altogether for the whole trip. I have bought one ounce in a shop in Vienna, where also nobody asked for an ID. I also brought it to the UK in my hand laguage. They will see the metal in the scanner but no one said anything in may case and the limit for bringing it here is 10K as far as I know. However, if you are unlucky, they might want to see it and then it's not anonymous, any longer - if they take notes of it. Till Last year you could have gone to Germany but they have lowered their limit from 10K to only 2K with the turn of the year.

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There's jewellers and pawn shops here in spain who wont need any ID. However, it's a bit harder sourcing gold coins here at the moment. Even if you do end up buying with ID - where's the proof you kept them? There's a thousand things you might have done with those coins and if it came to a confiscation point in the future - we're all doomed anyway and would've probably used the coins long before to buy our way out of situations.... 

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I was asked for I.d. when I bought my kilo silver bar from a European dealer online a few years ago and they said the order wouldn't go through without it. I said that this is the only thing I'd be ordering from them and they can forget the sale if they want. It went through without any id being handed over. Never used them again but I didn't intend to after that. 

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That is very well put.... although I wonder how many will stick to their lost bullions story under duress, threatened with prison time, etc. Personally I'd rather never find myself in that position, if I can avoid it. Pretty unlikely scenario though, I'll concede + making purchases anonymously does sound rather convoluted, unfortunately.

Anyway, many thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts, much appreciated!

 

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If the government ever wanted to get their hands on your gold, there are much easier ways of going about it than kicking down doors at 6 a.m. to ransack a house because of some receipt from HGM a decade ago.

Why go to all that difficulty and expense when you could make the sale of gold illegal... unless the buyer is the government. That'd hoover most of it up. Sure you could 'stick it to the man' by burying your stash in the woods, but you nor your kids would ever be able to realise its value unless you sold it on a gold black market. Then the government could go after the black market instead. That'd be more effective than chasing the ghosts of some old receipt, less messy than interrogation and a hell of a lot cheaper than locking people up.

That's the way I'd do it. 😈

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16 hours ago, Dimitri said:

Hi all,

Apologies if this has been answered a thousand times before, but I'm a bit of a newbie so would massively appreciate any advice you knowledgeable people might have. Anyway, here goes for my first post on the forum 😬

Am looking to buy some sovs and maybe a couple of half-sovs (approx £2500 worth in total) and want to do so anonymously - ie. no name or address. I thought paying cash at a dealer would work under a certain limit, but having spoken to a couple of London dealers, it turns out they require id for any purchase of gold. Online seems like a no-go given the need to create an account and to have the coins sent to my address.

How do you people get round this issue?

Many thanks

Dimitri

Buy in a few lots under £750. In most cases that value dealers won’t ask for id. 
or buy from the forum, you may have to give address but your details won’t be saved on a system anywhere.

New Forum Sponsor! See Items for sale here  Also on Instagram: Bargain Numismatics 

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Governments around the world will confiscate purchasing power of its citizens via steadily increasing inflation. Any future banking defaults then bail in laws used make the banks whole.

The world market for Gold is to big for any individual government implement confiscation policy and easier ways governments to balance their books.

Chards did not require any ID until I purchased over (I believe) 5 oz Gold. Also purchased lot of Gold/Silver from European Mint also did not require ID. £2.5k worth of Sovereigns best (cheapest) method via forum.

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Future confiscation won't happen. That's too old school antisocial brute force. It will be capital gains and wealth taxes. While the latter would be helped with anonymity, the former capital gains - should you want to sell to someone legitimate - would be your undoing, because if you can't prove purchase price then you'll get capital gains tax forced on the whole.

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6 minutes ago, Prophecy said:

Future confiscation won't happen. That's too old school antisocial brute force. It will be capital gains and wealth taxes. While the latter would be helped with anonymity, the former capital gains - should you want to sell to someone legitimate - would be your undoing, because if you can't prove purchase price then you'll get capital gains tax forced on the whole.

I would agree with the above, they are more likely to tax you upon sale, governments are masters of introducing forms of taxation to keep the average person under the thumb. Just imagine a 20% or 30% tax introduced on the final selling price. 

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1 hour ago, Tickety said:

I would agree with the above, they are more likely to tax you upon sale, governments are masters of introducing forms of taxation to keep the average person under the thumb. Just imagine a 20% or 30% tax introduced on the final selling price. 

Did CGT previously exist in the UK on the sale of sovs, and if so, when did this end?

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