Collecting Proof coins and sets

[Divmad]

As I read more posts on this forum, I see that several of you go for the ultimate quality accolade of gold and silver coins, the Proof version.

I can understand that, as I have a few modern UK proof coinage issues myself. But what I would like to know is, are these proof coins less valuable when taken out of sets or split from their COA boxes? Or is it best to collect them in their original condition of sale? Or, better still to focus on independently graded agencies like NGC, in slabbed format, for the long term investment value?

 

 

 

[ChrisSilver]

I think members will have different opinions and opinions may even change over time. And also on what the particular item is.

I just recently started collecting NGC graded coins, and specifically like the blue Early Releases or First Releases Label followed by standard brown labels. If a coin is really nice I think it is nice to have a PF 70 of it but I completely understand that come resale these coins may be hard to find a collector buyer looking for those specific coins, but I am only buying a few and for my personal collection that I do not intend on selling in the future.

In terms of investment the raw ungraded versions may be easier to sell in the future (in my opinion) but this is also dependant on the particular coin. Some really collectible coins for example may be easier to sell in PF 70 graded format, especially if it has been a problematic coin series with not that many good examples.

Bullion is always the easiest to sell, providing the spot price is higher when you come to sell it then no problem. But collectors proof coins (depending on what the particular coin is) may provide some protection when buying at all time highs, incase the spot prices were to fall?

Lots of members also follow the rule of buy what you like   but you could change this to add "Buy what you like and also buy a PF 69 or PF 70 version of the coin if you really like it" 😄

Graded coins used to seem to be not so popular in the UK (at least on the forum) but the popularity seems to have grown over the years. There are those who do not like graded coins at all and it is perfectly understandable, everyone has different opinions to graded vs ungraded. 

This is just my opinion and many people have completely different opinions especially when it comes to graded coins, I do not think there is a right or wrong way to do things. But just your own way  

[InvestInCoins888]

1 hour ago, Divmad said:

As I read more posts on this forum, I see that several of you go for the ultimate quality accolade of gold and silver coins, the Proof version.

I can understand that, as I have a few modern UK proof coinage issues myself. But what I would like to know is, are these proof coins less valuable when taken out of sets or split from their COA boxes? Or is it best to collect them in their original condition of sale? Or, better still to focus on independently graded agencies like NGC, in slabbed format, for the long term investment value?

 

 

 

To retain the best chance of returning highest value, I’d personally advise not to split sets. It’s usually much easier to sell with original box and COA, buyers in general like to have them.

Im always looking for ways to squeeze extra value out of the PM coins I buy. If I can get a proof version of a coin for only a few % more than the bullion version, it’s a no brainier for me. 

For investment purposes I look for coins that are backed by their bullion value and have a Numismatic element or elements to them that will also command a premium. The trick is to buy when that premium is still low and then you can sit and watch growth on two fronts.

Im coming to love Slabbed and Graded Coins, so long as the premium isn’t silly. I’ve definitely noticed buyers are much more interested lately and they do provide a great deal of security for new collectors. It’s certainly another way to find a element that increases value.

The short answer to your question really is it’s coin dependent.

Use the forum, there is a wealth of knowledge here and plenty of people welcoming enough to share their thoughts and opinions.

Chris is absolutely right though, buy what you like and this is the true valuer of a coin, what you are willing to pay for it. If you invest in coins you love, you really can’t go to far wrong.

[SilverMike]

I personally think the markets are bigger for the individual coins where people collect a size / type (£5, Sovereign, half etc). Rather than the market for full RM issued sets. Where the £5 and the sovereign seem to be the biggest markets (at the moment)

Its expensive for “type” collectors to buy a full set to get a certain coin so they want the premium low so they can sell off what they don't want and get the coin they want at a good price. Where if they see the coin they want they are more likely to be willing to pay a bit of a premium imo. Things start to get a bit skewed for rare / desirable sets though (1937 as an example), especially with the 3rd dimension grading brings.

Then there is the definition of what a set is (soveregn date run, head type run, five special reverse sovereigns, proof set from a given year, SOTD, etc) then if you have them, would you want one in a 69 and the rest in a 70 or vice versa, I wouldnt, messes with my ocd 😄.... is that even a set!?!

I have very few coins that (in my head) stand alone, but what a set is in some cases is what I determined it to be, part of the fun / addiction Imo is building it rather than having it presented to you even though that might be the cheapest route 🤔

It also seems to me anyway. that by slabbing the need for the COA and box presentation is less important and more a nice to have. Look at the amount of empty boxes that get sold off (but interestingly there is normally a buyer!?) And I have yet to buy a slabbed coin of CC where I get the box and COA.

There is something lovely about having an ungraded set in its original presentation, but its seems most accept that to move it on and get the best / highest price it needs grading (and has to be a 70).... 69 seems to have a bit of a premium, but in most cases you’d get the same for an ungraded coin as a 69.  (With the exception of some coins, again like 1937 where 70’s simply don't exist (yet).)...

[ChrisSilver]

Thanks for sharing your opinions also @SilverMike  

1 hour ago, SilverMike said:

best / highest price it needs grading (and has to be a 70).... 69 seems to have a bit of a premium, but in most cases you’d get the same for an ungraded coin as a 69.

From what I have seen, but obviously from only a few selected coins of personal interest. Is that the cost of buying a PF 69 is basically the same cost as buying a coin raw and grading it. And the PF 70’s sell at a premium. Presumably because of the demand for people who wish to buy an already graded PF 70. Though this is of course very dependant on the coin as I have also seen some coins that are graded a PF 69 sell for less than the raw version.

There are advantages/disadvantages of buying already graded vs sending in for grading but that is another topic  

 

1 hour ago, SilverMike said:

It also seems to me anyway. that by slabbing the need for the COA and box presentation is less important and more a nice to have. Look at the amount of empty boxes that get sold off (but interestingly there is normally a buyer!?) And I have yet to buy a slabbed coin of CC where I get the box and COA.

This is an interesting subject to touch upon. I personally (as a collector) do not value the COA and box for myself (if buying raw) but attach some importance on it as I know it will likely be somewhat important come resale. But if buying a graded coin the COA is no longer needed and it has never crossed my mind to even desire one as the holder itself becomes a COA and guarantee of authenticity. 

[Divmad]

This is s really great discussion for me, learning with every post. Many thanks all of you.

Moving on, maybe there is a psychological element to the collecting method of each of you. By that I mean, with a slabbed coin, even in top grade, do you feel more "remote" from that coin? It's tucked away totally free from human touch, and can't be viewed as closely or handled in the same way as one that is in a capsule. Does this make sense even?

Taking this one step further, if the hunting down of particular coins in a run or type of a big part of the fun in collecting, is it a bigger thrill to snare a good proof coin in a capsule at a bargain price, even without box or COA, or one that is a top graded coin, but costing much more? In each case, the intrinsic floor level value of the coin is the same.

[Fivepoundfred]

There are some advantages of owning graded coins - protection of the coin, easy viewing, easy storage and possible financial gain if the coin grades well. 

Hunting down coins for your collection is all part of the fun. Personally i buy raw coins and grade them myself but to get top grades you need to find top quality which can be time consuming and difficult. In most cases you will find it a lot more cost effective to do it this way. For example i have purchased  raw gold £5 coins and graded them 70 myself and later often seen the same coin for sale already graded for £600 - £900 more. Of course some people prefer to buy the ready graded coin which is their choice but they will often pay a fairly hefty premium. 

 

 

[Antwerpstacker]

Silver coins can spot, tarnish and who knows what else. Buying a perfect Slab is also a small guarantee that the coin stays perfect. The premium on these can possible be recouped when selling, probably easier than on non graded coins. 

If people that grade coins often, sell raw coins on here, I assume they think it will not grade perfect and would be cautious to buy it. 

I collect gold pf70 coins, well aware I often buy the Slab and not the coin. But I like having the nuts, and they will be easier to sell than lesser grades. 

[SilverMike]

2 hours ago, Antwerpstacker said:

Silver coins can spot, tarnish and who knows what else. Buying a perfect Slab is also a small guarantee that the coin stays perfect.

Not always mate, if conserved it gives you fighting chance I think, but a surprising amount (to me anyway) do tone while in the slab. Same with old copper pennies etc (but with them you have to get them re-graded every tens years)

2 hours ago, Antwerpstacker said:

If people that grade coins often, sell raw coins on here, I assume they think it will not grade perfect and would be cautious to buy it. 

There's probably some truth in that but most people on here are honest in their sale. Equally i've had coin that I was confident would grade very highly but sold them ungraded for a few reasons (liquidity or I like the coin but knew I would move it on and didn't want to wait the circa 2 months to get it back or decided ).