A little friendly advice :)

[BiigT]

Hi All,

I'm new to the forum and whilst I've been searching all the 'newbie' threads, I've not been able to find advice particularly helpful to me, so I hope you don't mind me asking a couple of questions. Firstly, I'm brand new to this, but I come into it with a pragmatic approach and understand the risks. I got into the crypto hype a few years ago and lost a couple of thousand pounds, but part of taking the is accepting you can lose it all, so I can live with my mistakes.

I'm coming into this largely to collect physical PM with a view to sitting on it for 10+ years and hoping that I get a fairly good return for my money. I have been saving money in small amounts since I was a young man and now (25 years later) I feel it's worth risking some of it to see what happens. Also, it's a fairly interesting hobby to get into so it'll be fun looking out for good deals or collections which might become more valuable etc.. 

I have around £5k available to hand and also top up an investment pot on Nutmeg which is sitting at around £7k. I've got a 3rd longer term pot, so I'd rather avoid using that. The initial plan was to buy 2 or 3oz of gold, but the more I read, the more it looks like the crypto situation i was in a couple of years ago, so I'm thinking of watching that with interest whilst I look at some silver. At its current price, silver is obviously attractive, but larger quantities can be tedious to shift or you can risk losing a little money if shifting in bulk. 

So I'll cut to the chase and get to the questions - firstly, I was thinking of buying some 'queens beasts' silver coins in 10oz. My thinking is that they are collectable in their own right and buying a 10oz coin seems a little bit better VFM instead of 10 x 1oz coins. At approx £250 each, I was looking at all 10 for £2.5k. Looking on the web, it seems like stock seems to be a problem so I wondered (a) whether people think my plan is reasonable and (b) is there anywhere I can buy all 10 in a set?

Outside of that, i haven't really got a plan, but would like any advice on collecting normal price sets of coins (if that makes sense) i.e. like the lunar range or similar. Can they be bought in sets or do I have to go hunting for each coin at a time? I would obviously prefer the former, but would be willing to do the latter if needed. My overall plan is to stack physical silver in the short term, stacking sets of coins in the hope that that particular range becomes more collectable (and therefore valuable) over time.

any other advice or guidance would be really welcome, thank you 😀

Tony

[Aknot]

Let me start off by I have no idea what im talking about and take whatever I say with a grain of salt....

It is of my opinion when you "collect" something the value of it is secondary to your want/desire/hobby to collect it. When I collect sports cards I look at the player (if I want to collect) and the designs of the card (if I want to collect). The overall value and or possible value of the card is secondary. Autographs (usually on sports cards also) is another one. There are some unknown players out there that have nice/cool signatures. Then there are highly collectable (think money) autographs out there that look like they couldnt be bothered with their name and do a squiggly line. Guess which ones I go after? Or went after....

I take PM (at least what I am doing with it) as a investment/hedge to the 401ks I have and some other bonds. Also something I can have on that very slim chance the sky falls... or something off the books I can leave to my son and his family.

I dont look at the collectors aspect of it because within reason an ounce of silver (or gold) is an ounce of silver or gold. Not saying the collectors aspect shouldnt figure in I just dont. I try to find the best price of silver "rounds/bars". Be it buffalo, WLs, Maples, Asahi, SilverGoldBull etc. With a collectors item you also need to realize will it always be a collectable item?

To end all of this.... do what makes you happy. Do research (if you are collecting certain sets which you are) ask around more than one place, try to visit a show or shop as most times they have been doing this for a bit and love to talk about how they started what happened and why they may do or not do certain things.

And welcome! there are a lot of great people around here.

[JudyPuiul]

Hey there  

I am also new in TSF (the silver forum), so welcome 🙏!

I think as in any new thing you get in either is stocks, gold, real estate and so on is important to understand the 'game'. Do you understand the precious metals market?

As for the crypto, it has some things to acknowledge. I got into the crypto hype as well and kind of get burned because i did not totally understand the way of trading, the volatility and the speculation going around there, so.. I feel ya 😆.

So going back to your questions.. I personally don't in the position to tell you what to buy or what not to, but I would like to advice you to truly understand what's going on in the first place.

Like..Why would you invest in precious metals and not in other commodities, why is the price of silver appreciating, etc. Be sure you understand what is a premium, what is a proof coin, what is a coin & what is a round, what are the advantages of buying 1oz coins vs buying 10oz ones or bars, understand the purity of the coins and so on.

Could be a good idea to make a plan. Some advise to have a ratio of 75% gold 25% silver portfolio, but that depends only on you - how do you feel, what do you believe in and what are your finances.

As resources maybe have a look on zerohedge.com / goldsilver.com / Mike Maloney's series on youtube / Ray Dalio's posts on LinkedIn.

Hope it helped a little bit. My inbox stays open if you need anything.

Bee 🐝 safe!

 

[JasonDavies]

1 hour ago, BiigT said:

I was looking at all 10 for £2.5k.

Only the first 7 have been issued so far; the 10oz versions are about a year behind the 2oz versions.

[matrawr]

If you want something you can offload easily or should an emergency come up and you needed to sell then go for bullion. But then you're relying solely on spot price for appreciation

If you don't mind paying extra and prefer the fancy stuff go with collectable PM's

[BiigT]

Three really helpful replies so far... Thank you. I do intend to read up on it firstb and will certainly take the advice here. I'm drawn to both collecting and stacking, but the latter is what I came here for so my focus is more on that because the former requires deeper knowledge about the subject for some of the reasons you've mentioned.

I've no idea why silver is appreciating or what the differences are between premiums and proofs and all the others you mentioned! This would be a great place to start so I'll check out the references mentioned. 

I want aware about the queen's Beasts either so again, thanks for the heads up. It's like day one at school!

[BiigT]

5 minutes ago, matrawr said:

If you want something you can offload easily or should an emergency come up and you needed to sell then go for bullion. But then you're relying solely on spot price for appreciation

If you don't mind paying extra and prefer the fancy stuff go with collectable PM's

Bullion being bulk silver? Apologies, in brand new to this and had to look up the definition.

I think your second point sums up my issue. I need to decide one easy or the other. I will definitely go bullion, but think the odd collectable at the point of release is something I'll also consider if the price is not much more than the prices of stand PM. 

[matrawr]

1 minute ago, BiigT said:

Bullion being bulk silver? Apologies, in brand new to this and had to look up the definition.

I think your second point sums up my issue. I need to decide one easy or the other. I will definitely go bullion, but think the odd collectable at the point of release is something I'll also consider if the price is not much more than the prices of stand PM. 

We often refer to bullion or bullion grade as PM's which are worth at or just over spot price.

Something collectable would range from being fancy  artwork/limited editions/vintage/numismatics

[BiigT]

1 hour ago, matrawr said:

We often refer to bullion or bullion grade as PM's which are worth at or just over spot price.

Something collectable would range from being fancy  artwork/limited editions/vintage/numismatics

Ah, OK thanks... So I definitely want bullion, that's for sure. I've seen people mention bullion by post, silver to go and this forum as a good place to buy. I'm seeing 1oz at around £25 at the moment, which I'm assuming is the average selling price? Anywhere else in the immediate that I should be considering? 

[matrawr]

7 minutes ago, BiigT said:

Ah, OK thanks... So I definitely want bullion, that's for sure. I've seen people mention bullion by post, silver to go and this forum as a good place to buy. I'm seeing 1oz at around £25 at the moment, which I'm assuming is the average selling price? Anywhere else in the immediate that I should be considering? 

There's also the group orders where it's purchased from one of the European dealers.

Just don't go via ebay at least until you've familiarised yourself with whatever you're after. They do have a counterfeit problem.

[BiigT]

1 minute ago, matrawr said:

There's also the group orders where it's purchased from one of the European dealers.

Just don't go via ebay at least until you've familiarised yourself with whatever you're after. They do have a counterfeit problem.

Thank you very much for helping me. I'm also looking at coininvest as Chris has posted up a code for free delivery which seems a good opportunity to grab some bits to get me going. They have at least 3 of the 2oz queen's beast coins for under £50 which in happy to pay considering I'll try and collect the others as I go. 

Thanks for the link though, going to read through that now

[matrawr]

Happy to be of help 👍

[HillWalkerDundee]

All of the previous comments are perfectly reasonable. If you are looking for and investment or as simply a means of storing wealth then silver is fine. Many will say that shares will give you a better return and over a period of time. A 10ounce Queens Beast should hold its value though the same amount invested in shares should be more profitable. The difference is the pleasure I get from looking at silver. It is a thing of beauty.

[JacquesHaul]

Hi, 

Like you Biig T, I am new to this forum. I see that it is a great source of sound advice and support for the thing that most, if not all here are passionate about, which is precious metals. If I may share my experience when it comes to completing sets, the faster you acquire the earliest issues of the set, the better it would be. As the set is almost about to be completed in terms of release by the Mint, the harder and more pricey it gets for the early released coins of the set, to be acquired. Popular designs in a set would also command more in price than other issued coins within the set. I have been religiously into precious metals for almost a decade, and ventured in it at the worst possible time. Given that, I don't know if any advice or comment I share would actually be helpful.  Good luck!

[sixgun]

You have got some cash you want to put into precious metal - good. We are in a bull market that could well last for years.

You are in the UK so i understand your position.

• Start by getting some sovereigns and half sovereigns - this is the place most here would recommend. You could blow all your cash on them in a very short time but i would drip feed the money in - 
• Buying on the forum is a good place - there are a lot more coins appearing than i have ever seen before - you need a premium membership to see the adverts when they come out. The best deals will have gone and you will miss them otherwise.
• Longer term members here can be trusted - you cannot necessarily trust elsewhere other than reputable dealers. 
• Silver is relatively much more expensive (premium over spot) but i expect the upside will be much more, even though we have seen a lot already - there is still the opportunity to get VAT free silver until the end of the year - i don't know what will happen then - there may still be ways around this but we will have to see.
• Personally i like bars especially vintage bars and rounds - it is just what appeals to me these days. With vintage bars and bars in general you don't have to worry about tarnishing and milk spot. You can hold the bars - except the high premium ones like the PAMP Fortuna bars.
• Remember UK coins do not attract CGT in the UK - it should not be a problem with your CGT allowance and the amount you have to invest but if you collect UK coins you do not have to worry about CGT. Personally i have not worried about it and i have got what i liked.
• Buy what you like but don't get sentimental - this is an investment. You are doing this to protect your capital and hopefully help it appreciate.
• You can compare prices quickly by looking at https://gold.de - it is in German but it compares prices between a lot of German dealers. You can also see what sold prices are on ebay - but be careful about buying there - i haven't for a long time now. 
• There are a number of well known UK dealers - Chard https://taxfreegold.co.uk  - Lawrence Chard posts here quite a bit now - https://Atkinsonsbullion.com - https://hattongardenmetals.com (not a cheap as they used to be) - there are others - https://bairdmint.com is good for their own bars. - there are a number of others https://goldsilver.be https://www.europeanmint.com/ (example of the 'VAT free' European dealers)
• Read around - there are lots of people here who know about gold and silver and coins/bars.

[richatthecroft]

Ditto what. @sixgun  has stated and I would reiterate surrounding getting sentimental- this is my downfall. 

[sixgun]

4 minutes ago, richatthecroft said:

Ditto what @Silvergun has stated and I would reiterate surrounding getting sentimental- this is my downfall. 

@sixgun there can only be one.

[richatthecroft]

1 hour ago, sixgun said:

@sixgun there can only be one.

Sorry- fat finger syndrome! Correction made. 

[BiigT]

5 hours ago, JacquesHaul said:

Hi, 

Like you Biig T, I am new to this forum. I see that it is a great source of sound advice and support for the thing that most, if not all here are passionate about, which is precious metals. If I may share my experience when it comes to completing sets, the faster you acquire the earliest issues of the set, the better it would be. As the set is almost about to be completed in terms of release by the Mint, the harder and more pricey it gets for the early released coins of the set, to be acquired. Popular designs in a set would also command more in price than other issued coins within the set. I have been religiously into precious metals for almost a decade, and ventured in it at the worst possible time. Given that, I don't know if any advice or comment I share would actually be helpful.  Good luck!

Thank you, that's a really helpful comment. I've already seen that some of the coins are £100+ versus others that are £48! I understand what you're saying though and will look for the others to see if I can get them at a price I'm happy to pay.

I think I'm mainly stacking, but I also like the look of the coins so it's pulling me in both directions (as mentioned in there post about yours)!

[BiigT]

5 hours ago, sixgun said:

You have got some cash you want to put into precious metal - good. We are in a bull market that could well last for years.

You are in the UK so i understand your position.

• Start by getting some sovereigns and half sovereigns - this is the place most here would recommend. You could blow all your cash on them in a very short time but i would drip feed the money in - 
• Buying on the forum is a good place - there are a lot more coins appearing than i have ever seen before - you need a premium membership to see the adverts when they come out. The best deals will have gone and you will miss them otherwise.
• Longer term members here can be trusted - you cannot necessarily trust elsewhere other than reputable dealers. 
• Silver is relatively much more expensive (premium over spot) but i expect the upside will be much more, even though we have seen a lot already - there is still the opportunity to get VAT free silver until the end of the year - i don't know what will happen then - there may still be ways around this but we will have to see.
• Personally i like bars especially vintage bars and rounds - it is just what appeals to me these days. With vintage bars and bars in general you don't have to worry about tarnishing and milk spot. You can hold the bars - except the high premium ones like the PAMP Fortuna bars.
• Remember UK coins do not attract CGT in the UK - it should not be a problem with your CGT allowance and the amount you have to invest but if you collect UK coins you do not have to worry about CGT. Personally i have not worried about it and i have got what i liked.
• Buy what you like but don't get sentimental - this is an investment. You are doing this to protect your capital and hopefully help it appreciate.
• You can compare prices quickly by looking at https://gold.de - it is in German but it compares prices between a lot of German dealers. You can also see what sold prices are on ebay - but be careful about buying there - i haven't for a long time now. 
• There are a number of well known UK dealers - Chard https://taxfreegold.co.uk  - Lawrence Chard posts here quite a bit now - https://Atkinsonsbullion.com - https://hattongardenmetals.com (not a cheap as they used to be) - there are others - https://bairdmint.com is good for their own bars. - there are a number of others https://goldsilver.be https://www.europeanmint.com/ (example of the 'VAT free' European dealers)
• Read around - there are lots of people here who know about gold and silver and coins/bars.

This advice is good in itself.... Really helpful, thank you. I'll admit that I'm more nervous about gold than silver because it looks sky bound at the moment, but my experience in crypto is telling me to hold off and wait for the burst. I appreciate it's all crystal ball theory at the moment, but the last thing I want to do is sink £2k into gold and find it's only worth £1500 three weeks later.

Silver is more attractive if for no other reason than its price. The premiums feel a little hefty, but I've just got to swallow it and do what I'm comfortable with.

Ordered my first but if silver the other night (£400 worth) which got me a couple of the queen's Beasts 2oz coins and done kangaroo coins that were priced at £23. I only read up on CGT after buying them and wished is have gone for the Brits, that said, I'm well within allowance so it's a moot point.

Great advice and links though, thanks

[BiigT]

Apologies, one last question... Does anyone know of bullion dealers in central London that are fairly priced? As I work there, I'm thinking of buying direct to save on postage costs.

 

[Martlet]

42 minutes ago, BiigT said:

Apologies, one last question... Does anyone know of bullion dealers in central London that are fairly priced? As I work there, I'm thinking of buying direct to save on postage costs.

London is better for gold than silver generally, that said Bairds is probably best in London for silver.  Other bullion dealers are Hatton Garden Metals, Sharps Pixley, and ATS bullion.  Best postage online i've found is eldoradocoins, Coininvest is good too for modest amounts.  

[BiigT]

1 hour ago, Martlet said:

London is better for gold than silver generally, that said Bairds is probably best in London for silver.  Other bullion dealers are Hatton Garden Metals, Sharps Pixley, and ATS bullion.  Best postage online i've found is eldoradocoins, Coininvest is good too for modest amounts.  

Great, thanks so much

[Stuntman]

Sharps Pixley is good just to go in and view what the coins and bars actually look like.  They tend to have quite a few different items on display in their cabinets.  

I don't live or work in London, but I do sometimes call in at Sharps Pixley for a browse if I'm up in London on a weekday for a business meeting or just being a tourist.

[BiigT]

Thanks for the tip. I looked on their website and didn't see much, but I wouldn't mind seeing some of these items in the flesh just to get an idea the size and weight of them.