Posting more than £2500 with Royal Mail - NO INSURANCE GIVEN - Be aware of the liabilities

[BackyardBullion]

So, I have recently been having issues with Royal Mail. 

Having done some digging I feel it is my duty to share some information previously unknown to me about their Special Delivery insurance "service"

Firstly, Special delivery is the only service that will cover precious metals, coins, money, jewellery etc. 

You can get cover of £500, £1000 or £2500 for your parcel. 

I bet you didn't know however that if your parcel has a total value of £2500.01 + (even just a penny more) then your entire insurance is invalidated. Indeed you can also be on the hook for any costs and legal fee's that are incurred by Royal Mail for this parcel. 

This is taken from their general terms and conditions. 

So, be very careful and understand what you are getting yourself into if you are selling and posting coins worth more than this. 

As a business I am better suited to go to an insurance company for external cover - but for the average person and seller this is not a practical option. 

Royal Mail = Pirates. Ye be warned!

[ilovesilverireallydo]

43 minutes ago, BackyardBullion said:

So, I have recently been having issues with Royal Mail. 

Having done some digging I feel it is my duty to share some information previously unknown to me about their Special Delivery insurance "service"

Firstly, Special delivery is the only service that will cover precious metals, coins, money, jewellery etc. 

You can get cover of £500, £1000 or £2500 for your parcel. 

I bet you didn't know however that if your parcel has a total value of £2500.01 + (even just a penny more) then your entire insurance is invalidated. Indeed you can also be on the hook for any costs and legal fee's that are incurred by Royal Mail for this parcel. 

This is taken from their general terms and conditions. 

So, be very careful and understand what you are getting yourself into if you are selling and posting coins worth more than this. 

As a business I am better suited to go to an insurance company for external cover - but for the average person and seller this is not a practical option. 

Royal Mail = Pirates. Ye be warned!

Just FYI - you can get special business posting rates (so SD at £6.35) and buy business cover up to £10000 per item with RM direct if you register as a business seller. 

https://www.royalmail.com/business/shipping/uk-services/special-delivery-guaranteed

[BackyardBullion]

4 minutes ago, ilovesilverireallydo said:

Just FYI - you can get special business posting rates (so SD at £6.35) and buy business cover up to £10000 per item with RM direct if you register as a business seller. 

https://www.royalmail.com/business/shipping/uk-services/special-delivery-guaranteed

Nope, That is consequential loss not for the value of the item. It is for any losses incurred as a result of not having the item on time or at all. 

It would also be invalidated by their T&C's if the item value was £2500 or more. 

Check the T&C's 

https://www.royalmail.com/sites/royalmail.com/files/2020-03/special-delivery-guaranteed-by-9am-terms-conditions-march-2020.pdf

 

[BackyardBullion]

[ilovesilverireallydo]

@BackyardBullion you looking at the normal sheet - business sheet is here https://www.royalmail.com/sites/royalmail.com/files/2020-05/royal-mail-specific-terms-for-parcel-products--v-3_3--1-june-2020.pdf 

However it appears the £2.5K per item limit is still active on Business accounts - so I dont see the point of them paying for additional cover up to 10K? WTF. So charge for the insurance, but dont ACTUALLY insure it to the value insured to? 

I am going to flag this to all the bullion dealers. Its bullcrap

 

[BackyardBullion]

5 minutes ago, ilovesilverireallydo said:

@BackyardBullion you looking at the normal sheet - business sheet is here https://www.royalmail.com/sites/royalmail.com/files/2020-05/royal-mail-specific-terms-for-parcel-products--v-3_3--1-june-2020.pdf 

However it appears the £2.5K per item limit is still active on Business accounts - so I dont see the point of them paying for additional cover up to 10K? WTF. So charge for the insurance, but dont ACTUALLY insure it to the value insured to? 

I am going to flag this to all the bullion dealers. Its bullcrap

 

Yep, 100%

The consequential loss cover is a joke.

The icing on the cake is that none of this is easy to find or plain to read. You have to delve into the T&C's to understand it. 

But plastered all over the front pages of Special Delivery is "cover up to £2500" or "cover up to £10,000" 

I would be very intrigued to find out if any dealers have ever had a successful claim for a special delivery item. 

[Martlet]

6 minutes ago, ilovesilverireallydo said:

However it appears the £2.5K per item limit is still active on Business accounts - so I dont see the point of them paying for additional cover up to 10K? WTF. So charge for the insurance, but dont ACTUALLY insure it to the value insured to? 
 

Would expect the additional insurance has a separate contract that supercedes this.  Good to have it checked and raised by other businesses, to get attention. 

[ilovesilverireallydo]

Just now, Martlet said:

Would expect the additional insurance has a separate contract that supercedes this.  Good to have it checked and raised by other businesses, to get attention. 

I looked and cannot find any info on it. 

[Goldhooked]

39 minutes ago, ilovesilverireallydo said:

However it appears the £2.5K per item limit is still active on Business accounts - so I dont see the point of them paying for additional cover up to 10K? WTF. So charge for the insurance, but dont ACTUALLY insure it to the value insured to? 

Consequential loss cover (the up to £10k option) isn’t really relevant for covering goods in most cases.  It doesn’t cover the actual goods that are in the package.  It’s to cover something like sending important documents, for example where a business might lose out on a contract if important signed documents were lost.  I believe you have to apply in advance too and may or may not be accepted.

[Arganto]

This is bizarre...so when a dealer sends by SD a package worth over £2500 the contents aren't covered by the insurance...but the dealers state "fully insured" when using this service. The only way to cover them would be to break the package down into relevant lots (if possible depending on each item's individual weight), which is silly.

I assume when a courier is used that doesn't normally insure PM the dealer has a special business arrangement that covers the package? Like DHL for instance?

[BackyardBullion]

8 minutes ago, Liam84 said:

This is bizarre...so when a dealer sends by SD a package worth over £2500 the contents aren't covered by the insurance...but the dealers state "fully insured" when using this service. The only way to cover them would be to break the package down into relevant lots (if possible depending on each item's individual weight), which is silly.

I assume when a courier is used that doesn't normally insure PM the dealer has a special business arrangement that covers the package? Like DHL for instance?

The dealers will likely have their own "good in transit" insurance as part of their general business insurance package

[Arganto]

That makes sense, so using special delivery for them isn't for the insurance purposes it's likely more a cost saving exercise especially if they get business rates...plus the bonus of being able to use the royal mail insurance if the item in question is less than £2500 worth rather than their own goods in transit policy.

This thread is highlighting a lot of things I didn't know. I hope to never have to sell larger amounts of PM, but if I did at least I know the caveats of special delivery! It would be time to weld quarter inch steel plate and a ram bar to the car and drive it out myself 🤣

[Melon]

This is really interesting. I never knew that if you went over £2,500 your cover was fully void. Thanks for sharing. 

[Jaconet]

Very interesting indeed. Top man for passing it on!!
Is the answer to go to a courier service like ups/dhl? What do people do if they’re shipping coins to be graded?

[Arganto]

Many courier firms state in their T&C's that precious metal isn't covered/not acceptable for transit...although I can't speak for all of them of course.

[Seasider]

19 hours ago, Melon said:

This is really interesting. I never knew that if you went over £2,500 your cover was fully void. Thanks for sharing. 

I think it may be worse than that.  If you read @BackyardBullion's other thread it may be grounds for ""disposing of those items".  But I may be putting 2 + 2 together to make 5!

[BackyardBullion]

2 minutes ago, Seasider said:

I think it may be worse than that.  If you read @BackyardBullion's other thread it may be grounds for ""disposing of those items".  But I may be putting 2 + 2 together to make 5!

From my understanding this wouldn't constitute reason to dispose of the parcel unless they deem it on the dangerous or restricted list.

Many dealers and businesses will send more than £2500 per parcel and have their own insurance.

That is my understanding if it anyway.

[Seasider]

1 minute ago, BackyardBullion said:

From my understanding this wouldn't constitute reason to dispose of the parcel unless they deem it on the dangerous or restricted list.

Many dealers and businesses will send more than £2500 per parcel and have their own insurance.

That is my understanding if it anyway.

Fair enough but I read their note to you as including failure to comply with their Ts&Cs along with the dangerous stuff as justifying "disposal"

But then I am guessing that the £2500 limit came up in your discussions with customer "services" about RM's treatment of your parcel.

[BackyardBullion]

19 minutes ago, Seasider said:

Fair enough but I read their note to you as including failure to comply with their Ts&Cs along with the dangerous stuff as justifying "disposal"

But then I am guessing that the £2500 limit came up in your discussions with customer "services" about RM's treatment of your parcel.

In the T&C's it just outlines the liability for loss and damage etc. It doesn't set out such a breach as at eason to dispose of the parcel.

[Melon]

44 minutes ago, BackyardBullion said:

From my understanding this wouldn't constitute reason to dispose of the parcel unless they deem it on the dangerous or restricted list.

Many dealers and businesses will send more than £2500 per parcel and have their own insurance.

That is my understanding if it anyway.

Agreed. Although what's interesting is clause 6.7 makes clear you're not allowed to send anything of value over £2.5k regardless of insurance. While I very much doubt they'd randomly dispose of it, it's technically breaking the rules. 

I bet people get caught out with this, as naturally you'd put in a claim for the full £2.5k coverage in the event a parcel went missing and the folk at Royal Mail probably get real excited whenever they see a £2.5k claim come in, knowing full well it's likely the item won't qualify. Horror show! 

[Arganto]

1 hour ago, Melon said:

Agreed. Although what's interesting is clause 6.7 makes clear you're not allowed to send anything of value over £2.5k regardless of insurance. While I very much doubt they'd randomly dispose of it, it's technically breaking the rules. 

I bet people get caught out with this, as naturally you'd put in a claim for the full £2.5k coverage in the event a parcel went missing and the folk at Royal Mail probably get real excited whenever they see a £2.5k claim come in, knowing full well it's likely the item won't qualify. Horror show! 

Replace horror with a slang word for faecal matter and you'd be closer to the mark. It also helps with the sibilance.

I know we're supposed to read the agreements for this sort of thing thoroughly but I'm sure it's some accepted fact that Average Joe Assumesalot doesn't as a general rule. It should be in bold somewhere visible when purchasing on the website and explained over the counter. I mean they ask the value of the parcel sometimes but not always and people don't necessarily want to divulge that. "Maximum value of £2500 on special delivery sir/madam plus other terms and conditions available on our website, or on this handy pamphlet right here. Okay to proceed?" .

🙃

 

 

[sovereignsteve]

RM have plenty of scope for reneging on their insurance commitments for SD. As well as the £2500 max limit they also muddy the waters with regard to what value they will accept/assign to the goods. If something is close to the limit, I'm sure they will twist things to make sure the value is slightly above!

[BackyardBullion]

10 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

RM have plenty of scope for reneging on their insurance commitments for SD. As well as the £2500 max limit they also muddy the waters with regard to what value they will accept/assign to the goods. If something is close to the limit, I'm sure they will twist things to make sure the value is slightly above!

One would imagine that market value and retail value might be interchanged where needed to get that value over £2500

[MancunianStacker]

On 16/07/2020 at 11:30, Liam84 said:

This is bizarre...so when a dealer sends by SD a package worth over £2500 the contents aren't covered by the insurance...but the dealers state "fully insured" when using this service. The only way to cover them would be to break the package down into relevant lots (if possible depending on each item's individual weight), which is silly.

I assume when a courier is used that doesn't normally insure PM the dealer has a special business arrangement that covers the package? Like DHL for instance?

That’s what I’ve done in the past. For a £5,000 coin. £2,500 for one box (coin in capsule), £2,500 for one box (box, COA etc). However, the problem is, if only one box of the two gets “lost” it’s either worth £4,950 or £50 (at best). It does reduce your risk a little but costs twice as much 😬 

[Prophecy]

3 hours ago, BackyardBullion said:

One would imagine that market value and retail value might be interchanged where needed to get that value over £2500

The value is determined by receipts, invoices or equivalence. The insurers will ask to see proof of value beyond spot. The problem will arise if it is a unique item.