Elton John coin

[jacksj1]

No first day cover. Did that release later for Queen ?

[BrumChris]

I can't see any of these at the coin connection. Bit odd.

[richatthecroft]

45 minutes ago, BrumChris said:

I can't see any of these at the coin connection. Bit odd.

https://www.thecoinconnection.co.uk/product-category/music-legends/

[PapaLazarou]

The Word from the Herd

 

Whilst there is a possibility that these Elton John coins might be flipped in the short term for a profit, I would humbly venture to suggest that the long term prospects for its premium are a cause for great concern in both silver and gold.

 

A price of nearly £100 for a 1oz silver coin with no track record is, quite frankly, absurd. If you truly believe that a premium of 500% over spot is sustainable in the long term then I politely suggest that you should see a specialist. The gold versions will similarly trend towards the spot price over time, so why not just buy sovs?

 

It is very easy to forget that not all the "legends" in this RM list are anything like a certainty to be household names in even 30 years time. Of course, there are obvious exceptions, The Beatles and Queen being prime examples.  How many of today's youngsters (the future's numismatic collectors/buyers) could actually name a couple of songs by Sir Elton?

 

The chances are that the majority of coins in this "collection" will be confined to the ignominy of bullion in due course, just as most PM coins from the 20th century - no matter how attractive - are now regarded as little more than melt. This design is not a classic and never will be.

 

These comments are not aimed at collectors, of course, but anyone searching for the next Una should look elsewhere...nothing to see here.

[GrahamDiamond]

All coins are available at The Koin Club, you can Pre-Order the Five Ounce Silver Proof Coin Coinsters !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[AppleZippoandMetronome]

1 hour ago, richatthecroft said:

If you scroll down the products you come across this button: 

And access to a web form to declare your interest in 5oz Silver & Gold:

 

 

Wow...  they really are milking this series for everything they can. With this much dilution I'm so glad I shifted all my 2oz proofs while there was still profit in them!

[AppleZippoandMetronome]

17 minutes ago, PapaLazarou said:

Whilst there is a possibility that these Elton John coins might be flipped in the short term for a profit, I would humbly venture to suggest that the long term prospects for its premium are a cause for great concern in both silver and gold.

 

A price of nearly £100 for a 1oz silver coin with no track record is, quite frankly, absurd. If you truly believe that a premium of 500% over spot is sustainable in the long term then I politely suggest that you should see a specialist. The gold versions will similarly trend towards the spot price over time, so why not just buy sovs?

 

It is very easy to forget that not all the "icons" in this RM list are anything like a certainty to be household names in even 30 years time. Of course, there are obvious exceptions, The Beatles and Queen being prime examples.  How many of today's youngsters (the future's numismatic collectors/buyers) could actually name a couple of songs by Sir Elton?

 

The chances are that the majority of coins in this "collection" will be confined to the ignominy of bullion in due course, just as most PM coins from the 20th century - no matter how attractive - are now regarded as little more than melt. This design is not a classic and never will be.

 

These comments are not aimed at collectors, of course, but anyone searching for the next Una should look elsewhere.

I agree with your points and would add one more thing that will inevitably affect this series long term - dilution. The Royal Mint have diluted this series so much with all the different variants in proof silver, proof gold and even bullion for the Queen one. While people will likely still aspire to own one of the "nicer" more limited versions there will be a lot of people who will settle for what they can afford so demand won't be what it should be.

[jacksj1]

40 minutes ago, PapaLazarou said:

Whilst there is a possibility that these Elton John coins might be flipped in the short term for a profit, I would humbly venture to suggest that the long term prospects for its premium are a cause for great concern in both silver and gold.

 

A price of nearly £100 for a 1oz silver coin with no track record is, quite frankly, absurd. If you truly believe that a premium of 500% over spot is sustainable in the long term then I politely suggest that you should see a specialist. The gold versions will similarly trend towards the spot price over time, so why not just buy sovs?

 

It is very easy to forget that not all the "icons" in this RM list are anything like a certainty to be household names in even 30 years time. Of course, there are obvious exceptions, The Beatles and Queen being prime examples.  How many of today's youngsters (the future's numismatic collectors/buyers) could actually name a couple of songs by Sir Elton?

 

The chances are that the majority of coins in this "collection" will be confined to the ignominy of bullion in due course, just as most PM coins from the 20th century - no matter how attractive - are now regarded as little more than melt. This design is not a classic and never will be.

 

These comments are not aimed at collectors, of course, but anyone searching for the next Una should look elsewhere...nothing to see here.

 

Disagree strongly, especially on the gold versions.

And Elton Johns worldwide pull dwarfs Queens and his version has smaller mintages.

The jury is out on the silver versions, though I'm not pessimistic about their potential.

 

[BrumChris]

53 minutes ago, richatthecroft said:

https://www.thecoinconnection.co.uk/product-category/music-legends/

I couldn't see that at 10am. Looks like they found some down the back of the sofa once RM had sold out at £195 💷

[goldmember44]

There's only one Una.

[BrumChris]

11 minutes ago, jacksj1 said:

 

Disagree strongly, especially on the gold versions.

And Elton Johns worldwide pull dwarfs Queens and his version has smaller mintages.

The jury is out on the silver versions, though I'm not pessimistic about their potential.

 

He's known worldwide but I've never seen evidence that his fans are as dedicated/obsessive as for bands like Queen. Also the secondary demand for the Queen coins hasn't been as strong as I expected. You might be alright with the 2oz special gold.

---

Added 0 minutes later...

3 minutes ago, goldmember44 said:

There's only one Una.

For the moment....

[richatthecroft]

Anybody missed out? 
 

EBay is always your friend! 😂 

 

 

 

[richatthecroft]

I particularly like the £395 bit of the £15,395 price point of the 2 Ounce- maybe the seller is thinking that psychologically it will be compelling to any perspective buyer when he shaves this amount off to make for a respectable £15k price point? 
 

[BrumChris]

It's a bit annoying really. People now buy to flip as a preorder risk free. When it doesn't sell it goes back to RM who then pass all those extra costs to the rest of us through higher prices and postage fees.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, richatthecroft said:

https://www.thecoinconnection.co.uk/product-category/music-legends/

If you buy from coin connection remember to use the code George for the Numistacker 2% discount

[Guest]

1 hour ago, AppleZippoandMetronome said:

I agree with your points and would add one more thing that will inevitably affect this series long term - dilution. The Royal Mint have diluted this series so much with all the different variants in proof silver, proof gold and even bullion for the Queen one. While people will likely still aspire to own one of the "nicer" more limited versions there will be a lot of people who will settle for what they can afford so demand won't be what it should be.

I dont think anyone who aspires to a good version will settle for a bad version. What do you base that on?

If i was shopping for the 2oz Silver version i cant imagine for one moment i would be seduced by the .5 oz version or the BU

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, richatthecroft said:

Anybody missed out? 
 

EBay is always your friend! 😂 

 

 

 

The £15,395 price on the 2oz may be a bargain. The Queen 2oz sold for £22k at Coin Cabinet and the Elton has both a lower mintage of 50 and Elton is alive and is likely to buy some of these to give them away as party treats...

[AppleZippoandMetronome]

Just now, Numistacker said:

I dont think anyone who aspires to a good version will settle for a bad version. What do you base that on?

If i was shopping for the 2oz Silver version i cant imagine for one moment i would be seduced by the .5 oz version or the BU

I base it on what I've seen in other collectable markets when items get reproduced or reissued in a slightly different form. There will always be some who won't settle and have to have the best but there will be some that just like the design and are happy with whatever they can easily get. The top end will probably always do fairly well (as is generally the case) but this level of dilution will damage everything below it long term. I also question whether fatigue will become an issue with these releases. I bought the 2oz coins purely to flip but if I were a collector of these I would be getting pretty annoyed by now that just when I think I've managed to get one of the best they announce yet another release.

[Guest]

Just now, AppleZippoandMetronome said:

I base it on what I've seen in other collectable markets when items get reproduced or reissued in a slightly different form. There will always be some who won't settle and have to have the best but there will be some that just like the design and are happy with whatever they can easily get. The top end will probably always do fairly well (as is generally the case) but this level of dilution will damage everything below it long term. I also question whether fatigue will become an issue with these releases. I bought the 2oz coins purely to flip but if I were a collector of these I would be getting pretty annoyed by now that just when I think I've managed to get one of the best they announce yet another release.

Almost all modern mints do exactly the same thing though. Perth, Canada etc they have a large number of releases and many variations and generally the strategy has changed considerably from say 15 or even 10 years ago. Before it was larger mint runs with fewer variations and smaller number of releases. Just look at proof sovereign mintages of a few years ago compared to the last 5 years. With technology they can scale and do economical limited runs and they have worked out that the collector market is happeir with 20 x 1000 mintages compared to 1 x 20,000 mintage run. I agree with this strategy as it provides collectors with things to collect. I take the view that modern coin collecting and bullion stacking has been leading the way in recent years and tomorrows numismatic collectors will come from today's modern coin collectors as the older ones die off.

Flipping is the excitement that feeds the growth of the hobby. False rarity or finding an error coin or a variety are the fuel the will ensure we all have a healthy hobby. Its a sad fact that if the mint produced more than the market needed most of the time then this would not encourage collecting it would kill collecting. Already 95% of the commemorative coins minted are financial losers for most buyers but at the same time most buyers like it if a couple of buys have a value that grows in the secondary market.

[BrumChris]

34 minutes ago, Numistacker said:

The £15,395 price on the 2oz may be a bargain. The Queen 2oz sold for £22k at Coin Cabinet and the Elton has both a lower mintage of 50 and Elton is alive and is likely to buy some of these to give them away as party treats...

That's a great result. Time will tell if EJ will be the same. Interesting that it made it onto the open market rather than selling before release.

[sovereignsteve]

1 hour ago, Numistacker said:

The £15,395 price on the 2oz may be a bargain. The Queen 2oz sold for £22k at Coin Cabinet and the Elton has both a lower mintage of 50 and Elton is alive and is likely to buy some of these to give them away as party treats...

That's less than 30% profit after expenses and on a £15k+ investment, it takes big b*lls to put that much out on such a huge premium with no guarantees.

Good point about himself being alive and such a big spender though.

[AppleZippoandMetronome]

2 hours ago, Numistacker said:

Almost all modern mints do exactly the same thing though. Perth, Canada etc they have a large number of releases and many variations and generally the strategy has changed considerably from say 15 or even 10 years ago. Before it was larger mint runs with fewer variations and smaller number of releases. Just look at proof sovereign mintages of a few years ago compared to the last 5 years. With technology they can scale and do economical limited runs and they have worked out that the collector market is happeir with 20 x 1000 mintages compared to 1 x 20,000 mintage run. I agree with this strategy as it provides collectors with things to collect. I take the view that modern coin collecting and bullion stacking has been leading the way in recent years and tomorrows numismatic collectors will come from today's modern coin collectors as the older ones die off.

Flipping is the excitement that feeds the growth of the hobby. False rarity or finding an error coin or a variety are the fuel the will ensure we all have a healthy hobby. Its a sad fact that if the mint produced more than the market needed most of the time then this would not encourage collecting it would kill collecting. Already 95% of the commemorative coins minted are financial losers for most buyers but at the same time most buyers like it if a couple of buys have a value that grows in the secondary market.

I agree completely and understand it entirely from the Mint's point of view. The world has changed and they still need to operate profitably - fair enough. I just question how good of a strategy it is long term. You mention the Royal Canadian Mint and I'd say its something they're the extreme example of - churning out release after release utterly saturating the market with "collectable coins" most of which never get sold. How seriously are they taken by collectors these days? The Royal Mint has a certain...  prestige (for lack of a better term) that other mints do not have. It would be a real shame to see that lost in the pursuit of short term profit taking.

Also for clairty I should really say that my issues so far are with the Queen Music Legends release. I understand fully that most coins get released with multiple variants. My issue with the Queen coins though is that they had their initial release, than a further release a few months down the line and now there is going to be an additional release plus at some point the silver bullion version was released. I think these blind staggered releases specifically are what I have an issue with and what I see as diluting the population of initially released coins. It just makes it so much less special (and valuable IMO) when they keep deciding every few months to do another run of the same design in a slightly different size.

[silenceissilver]

On 05/07/2020 at 15:18, Metalisreal said:

Isn't there a great British musician/composer like Mozart, Chopin, or Handel that can be featured on a coin who actually deserves to be there? I'll have to research that topic and get back to you! I believe the Mint may be trying to attract younger people to coin collecting so it doesn't die off completely and I can see the rational there. However a great institution like The Royal Mint shouldn't have to compromise like this.

Attracting younger people with Elton John? Young at heart?

I'd say the best known names amongst British composers are Henry Purcell and Benjamin Britten, the first one a Barock composer, the second one, well 20th century but not atonal music, no clue what exact category he falls under.

I doubt they make great coins though. No one even buys Mozart coins apart from some Austrian and a handful of German grannies, I'd assume.

Back to the Elton John coin. These coins together with Disney and other similar joke coins, almost make me wonder if gold has a future as precious metal because if it's so precious why are there such c.ap coins produced with it, you could ask yourself.

And I'm not speaking of the design. It's actually clever. As someone else said, you recognise it's Eltion John even though you can see him and even if it wasn't written on the coin, you'd still recognise it. But Elton John on a coin? Why? It's just another sad expression of modern Western nihilism to put such a trivial artist on a coin. Queen, fair enough, if you like them or not Freddie Mercury was an exceptional musician. But Elton John??!!

 

[sovereignsteve]

53 minutes ago, silenceissilver said:

I'd say the best known names amongst British composers are Henry Purcell and Benjamin Britten, the first one a Barock composer, the second one, well 20th century but not atonal music, no clue what exact category he falls under.

I'd add Elgar, Britten and Vaughan Williams.

As you say Purcell was from the Baroque era and if you want to go even further back, there was Thomas Tallis, and incredibly influential composer of choral music.

On 05/07/2020 at 15:18, Metalisreal said:

Isn't there a great British musician/composer like Mozart, Chopin, or Handel that can be featured on a coin who actually deserves to be there? I'll have to research that topic and get back to you! I believe the Mint may be trying to attract younger people to coin collecting so it doesn't die off completely and I can see the rational there. However a great institution like The Royal Mint shouldn't have to compromise like this.

Handel, although born in Germany, spent most of his adult life in England. He kind of became a honorary Brit, cmposing most of his best known works here.

 

[GoodAsGold]

On 04/07/2020 at 19:38, RiverbankSilver said:

The current design reminds me of the  invisible man 🙃

I only saw the coin design late on Monday and thought exactly the same. Perhaps an awful modern remake of the original movie.