Dealer reporting requirements to HMRC

[Hertzvonhyer]

Do the dealers tell HRMC once you hit one of these brackets or from your 1st purchase. Say you bought one sov. 

[ChrisSilver]

I’ve moved this to a separate topic. 

[sixgun]

No you will not be asked for details if you buy one sovereign - we have not entered that Gestapo karzi just yet.

This is the content of an email i received from Atkinsons the other year.

Quote

 

Thank you for your order ref XXXXX

I am writing to request I.D for your recent order, we require this information when you spend £5,000 in a single transaction or £10,000 in a twelve month period. 

I have included below the key points for you, the identification process is in our T&C's which i have attached below should you want any further information .

https://atkinsonsbullion.com/terms-and-conditions

• The Photographic I.D Required is a photograph or scanned copy of a Passport or Driving License
• The Proof of address required is a photograph or scanned copy of a Bank Statement or Utility Bill (dated within 3 months of today)
• We require this information to comply with the HMRC's Money laundering regulations, but once we have this in place it will not be requested again unless you move address.
• We value the trust our customers give us and as such we do NOT pass this information onto third parties 
• Our obligation is to hold the information and ONLY if requested, pass onto  the relevant authorities

At your earliest convenience please forward the documents via this email, if you have any questions whatsoever, please do not hesitate to call us. 

Thank you for your buisness.

 

Kind regards

Kim

 

 

[mr-dead]

38 minutes ago, Hertzvonhyer said:

Do the dealers tell HRMC once you hit one of these brackets or from your 1st purchase. Say you bought one sov. 

the dealer does not automatically notify HMRC when you trigger the £5k/£10k limits they are just required to file a copy of your I.D should HRMC come sniffing around at a future date

[Coolsmp]

28 minutes ago, sixgun said:

No you will not be asked for details if you buy one sovereign - we have not entered that Gestapo karzi just yet.

This is the content of an email i received from Atkinsons the other year.

 

Just out of interest. Did you comply with their request?

[sixgun]

2 minutes ago, Coolsmp said:

Just out of interest. Did you comply with their request?

They wouldn't process my order otherwise. So yes i did.

[Hertzvonhyer]

10 minutes ago, mr-dead said:

the dealer does not automatically notify HMRC when you trigger the £5k/£10k limits they are just required to file a copy of your I.D should HRMC come sniffing around at a future date

Thanks for the clarification. I guess if the GOverment ever seized gold from the public this is how they find out you may have had it. 

[Prophecy]

40 minutes ago, sixgun said:

No you will not be asked for details if you buy one sovereign - we have not entered that Gestapo karzi just yet.

This is the content of an email i received from Atkinsons the other year.

 

The same happens the other way round right? I've been in gold a long time but only vaulted.

[sixgun]

6 minutes ago, Hertzvonhyer said:

Thanks for the clarification. I guess if the GOverment ever seized gold from the public this is how they find out you may have had it. 

We all used to have gold and silver until that tragic boating accident when it was all lost.

[sixgun]

2 minutes ago, Prophecy said:

The same happens the other way round right? I've been in gold a long time but only vaulted.

The reporting requirement probably was something to do with some money laundering BS. No idea if vaults report gold to HMRC - that is a point if you are concerned they will come to steal it from you.

[Prophecy]

16 minutes ago, sixgun said:

The reporting requirement probably was something to do with some money laundering BS. No idea if vaults report gold to HMRC - that is a point if you are concerned they will come to steal it from you.

I don't mind if my vault does, it's when I transfer to coin... That's when I want to go off grid.

[MancunianStacker]

22 minutes ago, sixgun said:

The reporting requirement probably was something to do with some money laundering BS. No idea if vaults report gold to HMRC - that is a point if you are concerned they will come to steal it from you.

Yup but they don’t snoop when you buy Argos vouchers. These are what the small time launderers are using. Prepaid cards as good as cash. 

[Martlet]

6 minutes ago, Prophecy said:

I don't mind if my vault does, it's when I transfer to coin... That's when I want to go off grid.

I'd assume they record all coming and going at the vaults as a matter of security.  Wouldn't be much of a anti-money laundering process if they didn't have that available for HMRC. 

[silvernewbie]

there would have to be some special request, so the chances of them ever having to are tiny!  If this is a concern for you, buy privately to not leave a trail

[4Nines7Hills]

45 minutes ago, Hertzvonhyer said:

Thanks for the clarification. I guess if the GOverment ever seized gold from the public this is how they find out you may have had it. 

The government won't seize your gold. Its  for drug dealers  and the like laundering their I'll gotten gains through buying precious metals 

[Tommmmy555]

It's probably worth remembering that bullion dealers don't get paid by the government to do this sort of thing, so they are hardly going to be highly motivated to do it.

Why should they do HMRC's work for them if they aren't getting paid?

[Toshunya86]

In France you send passport for every buy. Even if you buy 10 euro for a silver coin .

Six-gun - use every account possible below the threshold - your friends ; your brother your father your wife etc etc 

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18 hours ago, 4Nines7Hills said:

The government won't seize your gold. Its  for drug dealers  and the like laundering their I'll gotten gains through buying precious metals 

Maybe but you should start to have border controls and ban gangsta rap if you want no drugs. Not go for the gold stacker. 

[PeterPan]

On 29/05/2020 at 19:10, Tommmmy555 said:

It's probably worth remembering that bullion dealers don't get paid by the government to do this sort of thing, so they are hardly going to be highly motivated to do it.

Why should they do HMRC's work for them if they aren't getting paid?

It's not about motivation, they HAVE to do it. They won't be motivated to pay tax either, but they HAVE to.

Failure to undertake Money Laundering Due Diligence carries some hefty fines and even prison (if I remember correctly). 

HMRC can conduct a records check at anytime. Not to check on a particular customer, but to make sure the regulated business (in this case a bullion dealer) is complying with there due diligence requirements. The emphasis is on the business to collect the required information and report any suspicions they have to HMRC. Unless there was an ongoing investigation it would be rare for HMRC to suddenly request the records they hold for an individual. 

As with most things, if you've nothing to hide then you've nothing to worry about. 

[Prophecy]

When America confiscated all gold they did force all dealers and refiners to reveal all invoices and other paperwork to identify gold buyers.

[Airhead]

Outside of a time of sequestration, HMRC are not the arm of Government that would be interested in our Gold holdings as purchases are VAT free and Sales are CGT free so outside the purview of Revenue and Customs. Those that would be interested are SOCA and perhaps Special Branch if it was thought there was a political of foreign angle.

I can see Revenue and Customs being interested if after 31st of December people continued to source Silver from Europe without declaring it

[Ravoma]

So they simply store your details until HMRC ask. How long do they keep these details on file. Indeffinatly or after the 12 months are up?