Time to sell numismatic coins

[TheApe]

Going to throw out what may be a little bit controversial.

Many people are starting to stock up on Gold due to the prospect of financial doom hitting worldwide economies. There is a potential for a huge uptick in interested buyers if the terrible really hits the fan, that remains to be seen.

If I held a large quantity of valuable numismatic coins I would strongly be considering selling in favor of bullion. These kind of coins are unlikely to do well as Gold rises in financial crisis in my opinion. Some owners may be forced to sell their numismatic coins while many struggle to get hold of pure bullion to protect their savings. Collector coins are not likely to see big rises and could even lose value.

[GrahamDiamond]

I have been thinking along these lines also, I agree with you Coinster !!!!!!!

[Augustus1]

well in a real crisis ( SHTF moment)I can see only gold weight being the real value /worth/ requirement, so a sov in a slab wont be worth anymore than any other sov as don't think collecting of anything will matter or be of concern over paying for food / survival 

dean.m

[motorbikez]

Not in my opinion, I'm  a collector & am still looking for a few coins & I'll pay good money for them if I could get hold of them. If I was hard up & I'm not, I'd dump bullion coins & bars before I sold any of my collections I spent years hunting for.

[TheApe]

Just now, motorbikez said:

Not in my opinion, I'm  a collector & am still looking for a few coins & I'll pay good money for them if I could get hold of them. If I was hard up & I'm not, I'd dump bullion coins & bars before I sold any of my collections I spent years hunting for.

I may be off but I see collector coins as a luxury that is afforded by a thriving economy and wealth. A luxury that will go out the windows in a downturn.

You may hold on for sentimental reasons but others wouldnt hold same sentiment towards coins, especially all the new entries to the market.

[Martlet]

The collectors are less likely to need to sell, so will be locking in these prices for the next cycle. 

[HGr]

Just started getting into collectables, I think they will be a good hedge against gold falling, just as gold is a good hedge against other stuff falling. 

How much cool old stuff gets melted every time there is a new high? These things become intrinsically rarer with each decade! 

 

 

[Stuntman]

A rising bullion price tends to be a good time to buy the numismatic coins, since their premium relative to bullion tends to be lower in a rising market.  

But I would say only buy such coins if you genuinely want to own them for pleasure, as opposed to maximising your profits.

I only have 3 numismatic/collectable PM coins, for which I happily paid a premium of >50% over spot.

I could sell one of them as bullion for a profit now!

[TheApe]

33 minutes ago, HGr said:

Just started getting into collectables, I think they will be a good hedge against gold falling, just as gold is a good hedge against other stuff falling. 

How much cool old stuff gets melted every time there is a new high? These things become intrinsically rarer with each decade! 

 

 

Collectibles as a hedge against gold falling.

LOL, you are doing it wrong. Try stocks or something. 

[HGr]

Well, I have some stocks too, but my thinking is this: the collectability premium overshadows the value of the metal content when prices are low. The price is bouyed up along with everything else, and the premium dissipates. When price of metals come back down, the premium returns - possibly there will be fewer of them and they could be even rarer. 

Now seems like a good time to buy fancier, slightly more expensive things as everything seems expensive anyway. 

[HawkHybrid]

1 hour ago, TheApe said:

Collectibles as a hedge against gold falling.

LOL, you are doing it wrong. Try stocks or something. 

 

each numismatic coin should be treated as unique(coins that don't have this

uniqueness are not true numismatic).

example hedging with the queens beast lion silver 2 oz from 2016 would have

given a tidy profit, as opposed to the relatively flat price movement of silver.

everyone is unique and have their own way of doing things.

for numismatic coins it boils down to: do you have the artistic ability to correctly

value a numismatic coin. numismatic coins have a limited link to the spot price of

the metal they are made from. thus they play a different role within a strategy.

 

HH

[silenceissilver]

2 hours ago, TheApe said:

I may be off but I see collector coins as a luxury that is afforded by a thriving economy and wealth. A luxury that will go out the windows in a downturn.

I agree, in a SHTF scenario, luxury goods will lose their value. It's a different question though if numismatic coins fall under this category. I tend to agree but I'm not sure. But who buys numismatic coins for a SHTF scenario?

[SilverMike]

Completely different markets driven by entirely different things. Good article by Baldwins here: https://www.baldwin.co.uk/news/coin-investment-in-troubled-times/

The liquidity may not be there in troubled times but then maybe it will, I don't see the value of real numismatic coins being in much trouble. I do see collectors (myself included) buying coins now that we may have hung off on as there is a risk in my opinion that numismatics coins could get pushed exponentially (and artificially) up off the back of the frenzy around rising spot and once they are there people won't want to sell cheaper unless they have fallen on troubled times, but you would sell whatever it is you hold in that situation.

You are not getting my coins 😉 and im happy to send anyone my want list if they are considering selling off their rare coins in a hurry 😄

Good thread though 👍

[SilverMike]

by a "SHTF scenario" I assume you mean the entire and irreversible collapse of the global economy, that being the case the only thing that will be worth anything is food, water, textiles and wood and they will be traded - the only thing a kilo of gold will be good for is beating your neighbours away from your veg patch 😄  Sovereigns would make excellent weapons for the catapult I reckon

[TheApe]

26 minutes ago, SilverMike said:

by a "SHTF scenario" I assume you mean the entire and irreversible collapse of the global economy, that being the case the only thing that will be worth anything is food, water, textiles and wood and they will be traded - the only thing a kilo of gold will be good for is beating your neighbours away from your veg patch 😄  Sovereigns would make excellent weapons for the catapult I reckon

No, I mean a big recession or depression.

People will flock to gold if we see high inflation. Collector coins will be no more valuable than bullion to many. Gold is gold 

[TheApe]

37 minutes ago, SilverMike said:

Completely different markets driven by entirely different things. Good article by Baldwins here: https://www.baldwin.co.uk/news/coin-investment-in-troubled-times/

The liquidity may not be there in troubled times but then maybe it will, I don't see the value of real numismatic coins being in much trouble. I do see collectors (myself included) buying coins now that we may have hung off on as there is a risk in my opinion that numismatics coins could get pushed exponentially (and artificially) up off the back of the frenzy around rising spot and once they are there people won't want to sell cheaper unless they have fallen on troubled times, but you would sell whatever it is you hold in that situation.

You are not getting my coins 😉 and im happy to send anyone my want list if they are considering selling off their rare coins in a hurry 😄

Good thread though 👍

Interesting read alright but maybe look elsewhere than a collector coin dealer to reinforce your confirmation bias.

[SilverMike]

3 minutes ago, TheApe said:

Interesting read alright but maybe look elsewhere than a collector coin dealer to reinforce your confirmation bias.

hmm, not sure its me who is looking for my confirmation bias to be reinforced 

[TheApe]

7 minutes ago, SilverMike said:

hmm, not sure its me who is looking for my confirmation bias to be reinforced 

Just pointing out that no collector coin dealer is going to tell you it's a bad time to buy. 

I'm honestly impartial as a relative collector coin noobie. I only have some sovereigns that are worth a little more premium due to year.  I have little vested interest. I could see expensive collector sovereigns for example, see massive value loss relative to bog standard bullion.

[SilverSceptic]

I have bullion ASE's and slabbed ASE's. I am strongly thinking of dumping the slabbed ones and reinvesting in pure bullion. I may keep one just to have, but they aren't why I collect. For a full on depression, I'd rather have junk silver (I'm U.S. based.)

[blindguy]

why not keep both? i buy bullion and rare collector coins. as far as ase's their all bullion accept for a few dates like the 1995-w or 1996.  as for rare coins i like $3 u.s. gold coins in ms62- ms65. tough to get. also like proof seated coins in cameo. 

[Shep]

I mainly stack gold but I do see the value in true numismatic coins (I.e. not Hattons of London square sovereigns type of c**p) and I don’t really regard them as having a rigid relationship to spot.

I understand the argument that in the “SHTF scenario“ people would see them as simply their intrinsic gold value. 

However, let’s be realistic, in the wholly unlikely situation that a true “SHTF” scenario came to pass, it would probably spell some kind of mutually assured destruction, scorched earth, nuclear holocaust in a fight for the last scraps of resources available, and bring most of our deaths with it. What good would gold do you?

I think i would rather be a pile of dust with my PF70s than live in or wish for the realisation of that world.

Until that happens, economies will recover in one guise or another and true numismatic coins will continue to have worth above their intrinsic gold value.

[RacerCool]

1 hour ago, SilverSceptic said:

I have bullion ASE's and slabbed ASE's. I am strongly thinking of dumping the slabbed ones and reinvesting in pure bullion. I may keep one just to have, but they aren't why I collect. For a full on depression, I'd rather have junk silver (I'm U.S. based.)

When I started rebuilding my stack I began to focus the majority of my silver on 90% junk silver, though most of it is uncirculated. The rest are mostly onzas and Libertads, with a small amount of generic silver. I figure that if I actually need to use it for barter, then the junk silver will be more useful. 

As for numismatic vs bullion, last couple of years I've been selling off almost everything that isn't actually needed, and using that money to buy useful things, including silver and gold. That philosophy includes numi vs bullion: if it's not actually building the stack then with certain exceptions the cash going into PMs is focused on bullion.

[TheCoinCabinet]

Most serious collectors are not financially desperate enough to have to sell their coins in the event of economic downturn. I agree that it looks like we have recession ahead of us and gold looks like a good investment, but this doesn't mean there won't still be people with wealth out there. People hit hard by the crisis probably won't be the ones having substantial coin collections... I don't believe we'll have a scenario where all 'luxury value' suddenly disappears and all there is left is the intrinsic metal value of items. There will be winners and losers and real RARE numismatic coins are likely to increase in value as the winners desperately seek to find returns in other areas than equity markets and traditional investments.

[Fivepoundfred]

I echo the views of Motorbikez, as a collector i will continue to buy the Numismatic coins that add to my specific collection that i have been hunting down for some time. I have no need or reason to sell, however i will now and again sell numismatic coins that i no longer desire and no longer fit into my collection.

Even though we are heading for a recession for sure you can still see people snapping up recently released numismatic coins for over three times their issue price and i think this will continue regardless of what happens.

 Some people may be hit hard and have to sell coins bullion or numismatic to pay the bills which is unfortunate but that's life.

 

[TheApe]

10 hours ago, TheCoinCabinet said:

Most serious collectors are not financially desperate enough to have to sell their coins in the event of economic downturn. I agree that it looks like we have recession ahead of us and gold looks like a good investment, but this doesn't mean there won't still be people with wealth out there. People hit hard by the crisis probably won't be the ones having substantial coin collections... I don't believe we'll have a scenario where all 'luxury value' suddenly disappears and all there is left is the intrinsic metal value of items. There will be winners and losers and real RARE numismatic coins are likely to increase in value as the winners desperately seek to find returns in other areas than equity markets and traditional investments.

 I know you are entitled to write an opinion.

But it does make me laugh a little when its coming from "thecoincabinet"