Silver ETF?

[Silvs]

Hello,

Does anyone have any experience with these? How have you found them? How are they taxed and are there and hints and tips for investing in these?

[Bimetallic]

1 hour ago, Silvs said:

Hello,

Does anyone have any experience with these? How have you found them? How are they taxed and are there and hints and tips for investing in these?

When I was looking I Googled best silver etfs, and found a useful site in ETFdb.com. They list eight options. ETF.com lists 13 silver ETFs.

There's no VAT on ETFs (or allocated), but I don't know about capital gains tax in the UK.

[sixgun]

i have held SLV and PSLV in the past. SLV is the biggest silver ETF. They are USD as most of these will be. They are easy to buy and sell - the spread between bid and offer prices is tight. 

i have dealt with them b/c they have options which i can sell for a bit more alpha. 
The shares are said to be backed by silver bullion - there is much debate about this. Personally i doubt all the silver is there. You will never be able to redeem shares for silver. 
Their price is near a spot equivalent price - the price moves with spot and they are cheap to trade. As long as this carries on like this all is good. The argument against them is they are like the unallocated bullion stories you hear where the gold was never in the vaults and you get cash settled. If there were not all the silver in the vaults the price of SLV would evaporate. Would this ever happen? Who knows. 

The safest ETF is the Sprott PSLV. i am confident the silver is there. It is actually one of the reasons there are doubts about the silver not all being there with SLV. Eric Sprott has talked about how hard it can be to get hold of the physical - SLV whose custodian is JP Morgan never seems to have issues. If they weren't actually buying the silver there wouldn't be a problem.
Ease of trading SLV
Sure the silver is there PSLV

[Clockpuncher]

Just be careful - some of the ETFs mentioned above are US listed. You probably wouldn’t be able to buy them through a retail broker anyway as they won’t produce a key info doc or a costs and charges disclosure and thus won’t be compliant with EU regulations (MIFID II).

As a general tax point, UK residents would probably want something which is UCITS compliant and UK tax reporting status otherwise they might end up with any gains not qualifying for CGT and instead taxable at their marginal income tax rate.

Ask a tax advisor if you are unsure!

[sixgun]

i trade shares, options and futures with Interactive Brokers - there have not been any issues for me.

i only hold US and Canadian listed stock. You must present prices in GBP - so know what your purchase and sale prices are in GBP at the time they were transacted. HMRC won't accept non-GBP prices.
I have a company that buy goods and services in various currencies and sells product in various currencies - as long as you present your dealings in GBP prices i have found they have always accepted them. 

[Clockpuncher]

@sixgunDirect debt and equity securities are usually straightforward for UK people. Issues arise on packaged products like mutual funds and ETFs where there is a wrapper holding some underlying asset mix - US versions can be bad for UK investors and UK funds definitely don’t work for US people.

You won’t need key info docs and costs and charges disclosures can be calculated by IB for direct securities which explains why you can transact. They may struggle for foreign funds as some of the key underlying data isn’t disclosed in the proper format to allow them to give you the required ex ante disclosures.

Alternatively IB may have you classified as an elective professional rather than a retail client, so they can sell you anything but the tax side of things is very much your problem as they are just distributing product and don’t have the same duty of care which is required for dealing with retail investors. The fact you’re trading in derivatives probably suggests they do.

 

[sixgun]

23 minutes ago, Clockpuncher said:

Alternatively IB may have you classified as an elective professional rather than a retail client, so they can sell you anything but the tax side of things is very much your problem as they are just distributing product and don’t have the same duty of care which is required for dealing with retail investors. The fact you’re trading in derivatives probably suggests they do.

IB don't assist in my tax calculations - i do my own - i give HMRC a number and it has never been questioned. 
Clearly what goes for me does not necessarily apply to someone else. 

If a person were concerned about their tax then there are some gold silver listed here

https://www.hl.co.uk/shares/exchange-traded-funds-etfs/list-of-etfs?etf_search_input=&x=54&y=31&companyid=&sectorid=355&tab=prices

https://www.hl.co.uk/shares/exchange-traded-funds-etfs/list-of-etfs?etf_search_input=&x=37&y=19&companyid=&sectorid=354&tab=prices

[Clockpuncher]

3 minutes ago, sixgun said:

IB don't assist in my tax calculations - i do my own - i give HMRC a number and it has never been questioned. 
Clearly what goes for me does not necessarily apply to someone else. 

If a person were concerned about their tax then there are some gold silver listed here

https://www.hl.co.uk/shares/exchange-traded-funds-etfs/list-of-etfs?etf_search_input=&x=54&y=31&companyid=&sectorid=355&tab=prices

https://www.hl.co.uk/shares/exchange-traded-funds-etfs/list-of-etfs?etf_search_input=&x=37&y=19&companyid=&sectorid=354&tab=prices

HMRC won't bother checking your figures in the first instance. Errors will only get picked up if you get an enquiry either by chance or because your figures are materially different to what they expect you to be declaring based on what IB will feed them via common reporting standards now that those data streams are flowing.

The point on non reporting foreign funds (which SLV, PSLV and almost all other US listed mutual funds/ETFs will likely be) is discussed here: https://www.ey.com/Publication/vwLUAssets/ey-uk-reporting-fund-status/%24FILE/ey-uk-reporting-fund-status.pdf

and more details on US ETFs specifically here:

https://www.justetf.com/uk/news/etf/us-domiciled-etfs.html

Just be careful with buying SLV/PSLV if you are UK resident.

[Silvs]

4 hours ago, Clockpuncher said:

HMRC won't bother checking your figures in the first instance. Errors will only get picked up if you get an enquiry either by chance or because your figures are materially different to what they expect you to be declaring based on what IB will feed them via common reporting standards now that those data streams are flowing.

The point on non reporting foreign funds (which SLV, PSLV and almost all other US listed mutual funds/ETFs will likely be) is discussed here: https://www.ey.com/Publication/vwLUAssets/ey-uk-reporting-fund-status/%24FILE/ey-uk-reporting-fund-status.pdf

and more details on US ETFs specifically here:

https://www.justetf.com/uk/news/etf/us-domiciled-etfs.html

Just be careful with buying SLV/PSLV if you are UK resident.

I understand a lot of what you're saying here but the thing is a UCITS fund (EU) may not be so stable for a UK based investor right now either 😂

[Clockpuncher]

UCITS is generally fine - it’s an EU wide set of rules to allow funds to be marketed across EU borders. Post Dec I would imagine the UK will try to keep alignment with the UCITS regime anyway as many funds/etfs which UK investors use are Dublin or Luxembourg domiciled anyway so have to be UCITS compliant. In reality who knows though!😅

[ZigZag]

Anybody notice Wisdomtree LSIL which is 2 x leveraged daily leveraged Silver has now made above a 100% gain since this years lows.

Took a lot of profit Friday, as the drop was a reminder how fast it can fall and didn’t fancy giving it back, when up a good deal.

This is my go to silver paper trade for relatively short periods.