Any knowledge on this coin?

[Stuntman]

Keeping my fingers crossed for you - glad that the crown and shields stack up!

[greendragon]

There is a thread on the "british coin forum" regarding trial coins similar to this

they ( the royal mint) ordered ebay to remove the items as they are not allowed to be sold

this was October 2016

it was a different trial piece, but this may explain why there are none around to compare

However, the centre looks to me like it has been unevenly trimmed  to fit the hole, with remains of a rim on rhs top and an odd looking bit around 11 o,clock

[StackemHigh]

Could it be a piece that was created only to be rejected at an advanced stage. Maybe as a possible £2 all those years ago when they went bi-metallic? 

[AndrewSL76]

17 hours ago, greendragon said:

There is a thread on the "british coin forum" regarding trial coins similar to this

they ( the royal mint) ordered ebay to remove the items as they are not allowed to be sold

this was October 2016

it was a different trial piece, but this may explain why there are none around to compare

However, the centre looks to me like it has been unevenly trimmed  to fit the hole, with remains of a rim on rhs top and an odd looking bit around 11 o,clock

That thread is interesting as it shows the views on the new £1 coin before anyone new anything about it!! I found/read it when trying to find out about this coin. 

The trimmed bit you refer to is interesting...I can’t make out what you mean. Can you please share a highlighted picture? Did you mean the base of the ‘y’ in ‘Royal’? 

Cheers!

[greendragon]

6 hours ago, AndrewSL76 said:

The trimmed bit you refer to is interesting...I can’t make out what you mean. Can you please share a highlighted picture? Did you mean the base of the ‘y’ in ‘Royal’? 

Sorry, my mistake, need better reading glasses

the bottom of the "y" looked like a blob.

the line between the inner out outer looks different on the two images, its just the camera angle, but looked badly fitted with an undulating rim

but if it is a royal mint trial piece, its not surprising

be good to see what they say in the end

 

[AndrewSL76]

I have this morning received the coin back from the Royal Mint. After being with them for the past five months, all they have said is that the coin is authentic. No confirmation of testing results - despite them stating that the coin was going through testing processes and this was part of the reason for the delay. No confirmation of what it was produced for - save to say that they do not keep records and so cannot give any information at all.

I am going to be writing to ask further questions. To say I am disappointed would be a bit of an understatement.

However, at least I now know for sure that it is authentic and was produced by them in order to test different alloys - which is all that they have said. I am pretty sure that they could and should be able to say more - especially if they have subjected the coin to the testing that they have previously referred to.

I will update if I hear anything else. 

Andrew.

[Stuntman]

Still - that's already very good news.

Were you always going to be keeping it, or might you be thinking of selling it?

Not sure what I would do if it were mine.  Unless it fitted into my collection in some way (even as a curiosity) I might be tempted to sell it to someone who would appreciate it more than me.

Either way - well done!

[dicker]

Hi Andrew

That is a very good find and while it is disappointing that the RM were too lazy to explain why it was created it is great modern coin to own and know that is genuine.  

I suspect this is the case of “one that got away” from internal trials / prototyping.

Best

Dicker

 

[AndrewSL76]

53 minutes ago, Stuntman said:

Still - that's already very good news.

Were you always going to be keeping it, or might you be thinking of selling it?

Not sure what I would do if it were mine.  Unless it fitted into my collection in some way (even as a curiosity) I might be tempted to sell it to someone who would appreciate it more than me.

Either way - well done!

Thanks. I don’t know what to do with it to be honest. The combined fee of what I paid for it with the charge from the Mint Museum is probably more than anyone would pay. I would not even know how to price it.

It was just a curiosity that I wanted to know more about.

I will probably hold it for the time being and see if I can get more information first. I cannot believe this is the only one of its kind or that there is not anything else to learn about it.

[AndrewSL76]

18 minutes ago, dicker said:

Hi Andrew

That is a very good find and while it is disappointing that the RM were too lazy to explain why it was created it is great modern coin to own and know that is genuine.  

I suspect this is the case of “one that got away” from internal trials / prototyping.

Best

Dicker

 

You are probably right. Fingers crossed the Mint can be a bit more open when I ask further questions.

[StackemHigh]

On 02/01/2021 at 15:49, AndrewSL76 said:

You are probably right. Fingers crossed the Mint can be a bit more open when I ask further questions.

When the mint reopen for visitors take it in and ask.

[AndrewSL76]

I have already followed up with further questions. Waiting to hear back. Will update if and when I hear.

[AndrewSL76]

I have had a really nice follow up email from the Royal Mint Museum.

What they have said is:

The Royal Mint regularly conducts trials for a variety of reasons and we therefore produce many hundreds of trial pieces. It is not always possible to conclusively tie a piece to the trial it is from and your particular coin is a good example of this. In these cases we are generally circumspect regarding our findings as there is often a lack of conclusive evidence. A good deal of work did, however, go into the examination of this coin. It does not exactly match any of the trial pieces held within the Museum’s collection which we looked through although, in its appearance and in its composition, it closely resembles several bi-metallic, plated steel trial £1 coins produced in 2009 and 2010. Nevertheless, these trials are smaller and do not feature the shaped inner section which is evident on your own and it would be difficult to conclude that your piece relates directly to these trials. We could also find no documentary evidence for trials that exactly matched your coin. This is not unexpected as the volume of records to search through is large and not every trial will necessarily generate a paper trail that is retained.

Furthermore, senior production staff were consulted. They recalled various trials from some years ago which were similar and were conducted to test the aesthetic appearance of a shaped inner. A plated steel blank, like your own, was wire cut to create a shaped hole and a round blank inserted which was then struck in order to expand into the space. Unfortunately, we do not hold any of these trials within the Museum and this has prevented a direct comparison, particularly with regard weight and diameter.

In short, your piece was probably produced around 10 years ago, possibly with a view to testing the aesthetics and practicality of using shaped inners for bi-metallic plated steel coins. Unfortunately, I am afraid that I am unable to offer a more definitive view than this. Nor can I offer an opinion as to whether the trials were conducted with any specific coin in mind or whether it was just one of the many tests that we undertake when looking at the feasibility of certain striking options.

So, the mystery remains! Short of getting into the archives myself and ploughing through the records (an unlikely scenario), this may never be solved!

I am now considering what to do with the coin. The obvious thing to do would be to send it for grading, but I am not sure how either PCGS or NGC would respond given that there is no definitive information save for that shared above. I am not sure whether this is worth anything or whether it is just a curiosity.

I am likely going to seek further advice on this, but for the time being, thanks for comments and for thoughts so far.

Cheers, and good weekend all.

 

Andrew.

[Stuntman]

That's a really good, comprehensive reply from the RM.  Nice to see - and thanks for sharing.

I wouldn't get it graded as I think doing so misses the point for this coin.  You have documentation proving that the coin is genuine, which is probably the most important thing to a prospective purchaser.  And you'd want to be able to handle and enjoy the coin.

 

[Midasfrog]

Very interesting story thank you for keeping us up to date 👍 it must be quite a rare trial coin if the Royal Mint dont have one in their collection.

Looks like there was some round bimetal trial coins made but I cant find anything to match your coin .

[AndrewSL76]

Out of interest, I am considering putting this into a charity auction. Do you think there would be any interest in this or would it be better to hold for a while longer and do a bit more research? 

[dicker]

Hi Andrew,

I think that this coin would do well in a Charity Auction.

I am not sure that it would appreciate more - I guess it was a test coin and many were made by one escaped.

Are you thinking of a charity auction on TSF?

Best

Dicker

[AndrewSL76]

Hi @dicker. I am consigning a few coins to Sovereign Rareties (for their April auction) and was going to ask them if they would include this. I expect them to say no, but I can only ask. I would be looking to sell and donate a large percentage of the final fee to Parkinson's UK. I think the coin could do quite well there as a curiosity, if nothing else. I am going there on Thursday to drop off the coins I am consigning and will take the Trial with me for their thoughts. 

 

[dicker]

Excellent thought. Let me know if SR accept this for auction and I will put in a few bids knowing it is going to charity.

Best

Dicker

[AndrewSL76]

Some good news - Sovereign Rareties have accepted the Trial coin and will be auctioning this in the forthcoming April auction - date to be confirmed.

The coin will sell with all the paperwork from the Royal Mint.  

[dicker]

Good on you Andrew. 

Best 

Dicker

[AndrewSL76]

This coin has now been withdrawn from the April Sovereign Rareties auction. Apologies if anyone was waiting for that auction to bid on this trial piece.

It will likely now be held for the foreseeable future whilst I figure out and gather more information. 

[dicker]

Let us know Andrew - it is a curious coin.  I have a one pound coin that came straight out of a bag of one pound coins that is an exquisite error.  
 

Personally I decided to hold on to it, not for value but simply because it is interesting.  I would not blame you if you chose to do the same!

Best

Dicker

[AndrewSL76]

This has now been listed on Ebay.

I do not expect this to sell for above what I paid and invested into researching it (which ended up being a lot more than initially intended as I got carried away), but anything that does go over that level will be donated as per my original plan for this.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133701214866

Thanks. 

[LawrenceChard]

On 15/04/2020 at 11:18, AndrewSL76 said:

I've had a response from the RM who have confirmed that the museum remains closed and so they are unable to reply substantively to my query at the moment. I am going to forward them the coin once the museum re-opens. In the meantime, here are some more pictures so that you can see the size of the coin and the milling around the edge.

It is too big to be a 10p trial coin (though it has the same depth. It is the diameter of a £2 coin, however, but does not have the depth. It is around 3/4 the depth of the current £2.

Any thoughts from anyone on this one?

 

If you send the coin to the Royal Mint, they are likely to confiscate it, but possibly pay you 80p for it.

Regarding the £1 trial coins, these were supplied to relevant parties on the strict condition that they were all returned to the Mint, who were very active at the time, clamping down on ebay and other listings for them. The RM stance is that they are legally the property of the Royal Mint. Although I am sure they are perfectly entitled to do this, I believe it is s short-sighted, uninformed attitude.

While I would not encourage you to illegally remain in possession of the coin, armed with the above knowledge, you can consider carefully what action to take.