Looking for a mentor

[Roy]

We should ask @Pete

[richatthecroft]

3 minutes ago, Roy said:

We should ask @Pete

And perhaps countless others☹️

Silver is nice to hold and look at- when struck in a nice timeless design and with a degree of real or perceived rarity.

Bulk Silver buying should be confined to a much smaller proportion of ones Gold holdings- and held with caution.

Thats my mentoring- but I haven’t a crystal ball- so take it with a pinch of salt. 

[kalfax]

2 hours ago, Pipers said:

how old are you

26

[kalfax]

59 minutes ago, richatthecroft said:

And perhaps countless others☹️

Silver is nice to hold and look at- when struck in a nice timeless design and with a degree of real or perceived rarity.

Bulk Silver buying should be confined to a much smaller proportion of ones Gold holdings- and held with caution.

Thats my mentoring- but I haven’t a crystal ball- so take it with a pinch of salt. 

i see. personally i have more silver than gold, but ofc that's due to the price differences. i'll probs get more into gold but ill also not stop buying silver since i've got a while to keep saving. 

[goldking]

2 hours ago, sixgun said:

Twice in your lifetime the price of silver shot up - once with the Hunt Brothers and once in 2011. An investment in silver prior to the price explosion and a sale at the highs would have made significantly more than you could have made in gold.

Back in the real world.......... 

Who would be dumb enough to BUY the silver you'd be trying to offload at those short-term inflated prices?  I can't say for sure but I'm reasonably confident if you carted your stash to your local coin stores, their offers would be based on the longer term mean price, not the current price.  The reason for this being that they aren't stupid and know from looking at the historical prices that it's likely to drop back down in the near future.  You saw evidence of this last Monday when the spot price went to £14.50.  HGM (one of the higher paying dealers) usually pay 80% spot for silver, eg. they'll pay today £10.79 for Brits vs spot price of £13.50 (80%) but last Monday when spot was £14.50 they were only paying £10.87, which is only 75%.  I'm willing to bet that percentage would continue to reduce proportionately to the spot price rising until such a time arrived where the higher price was sustained for a long period of time.

There's also the small matter of the costs of getting your stash to them on top of that, which given the weight:value ratio of silver is going to be expensive if it's decent size stash.  You might well counter that argument by saying they could sell on here - which would be true enough - but as we've seen from other members' recent attempts to sell at ATHs, that hasn't panned out like they were expecting and they're still in possession even after reducing the price.

There's also the point to consider that even when the price went to £20-30 toz you'd have needed to have been holding tonnes of the stuff to make it worthwhile liquidating anyway.

The fact that dealers will only pay max 80% spot for silver but will pay 98% spot for gold (Krugs, Brits, Sovs) tells you everything you need to know about where they see the market demand and future price for each metal.

[tennessee]

"Over time silver has been a relatively poor investment compared with gold...."
In 1914 14.25 oz of pure silver could be exchanged for 1 oz of pure gold. As we know we cannot do that now."

I don't consider silver and gold as an investment. It is insurance against monetary disruption and preservation of wealth. I pursued wealth first and then PMs as insurance to protect that wealth. That has worked extraordinarily well for me. 

[HawkHybrid]

3 hours ago, richatthecroft said:

The only safe mentor would be someone with a crystal ball- well a crystal ball that works at least....

 

silver requires a working crystal ball, gold does not.

 

HH

[sixgun]

1 hour ago, goldking said:

Back in the real world.......... 

Who would be dumb enough to BUY the silver you'd be trying to offload at those short-term inflated prices?  I can't say for sure but I'm reasonably confident if you carted your stash to your local coin stores, their offers would be based on the longer term mean price, not the current price.  The reason for this being that they aren't stupid and know from looking at the historical prices that it's likely to drop back down in the near future.  You saw evidence of this last Monday when the spot price went to £14.50.  HGM (one of the higher paying dealers) usually pay 80% spot for silver, eg. they'll pay today £10.79 for Brits vs spot price of £13.50 (80%) but last Monday when spot was £14.50 they were only paying £10.87, which is only 75%.  I'm willing to bet that percentage would continue to reduce proportionately to the spot price rising until such a time arrived where the higher price was sustained for a long period of time.

There's also the small matter of the costs of getting your stash to them on top of that, which given the weight:value ratio of silver is going to be expensive if it's decent size stash.  You might well counter that argument by saying they could sell on here - which would be true enough - but as we've seen from other members' recent attempts to sell at ATHs, that hasn't panned out like they were expecting and they're still in possession even after reducing the price.

There's also the point to consider that even when the price went to £20-30 toz you'd have needed to have been holding tonnes of the stuff to make it worthwhile liquidating anyway.

The fact that dealers will only pay max 80% spot for silver but will pay 98% spot for gold (Krugs, Brits, Sovs) tells you everything you need to know about where they see the market demand and future price for each metal.

You are have created a series of assumptions based of your own prejudices about silver - a form of confirmation bias. i'll leave it there. 

[goldking]

What assumptions are those?  Point them out.

[sixgun]

1 minute ago, goldking said:

What assumptions are those?  Point them out.

Is this helping the member who is asking for advice and mentorship?

[Lr103]

1 hour ago, goldking said:

The fact that dealers will only pay max 80% spot for silver but will pay 98% spot for gold (Krugs, Brits, Sovs) tells you everything you need to know about where they see the market demand and future price for each metal.

No disagreement with generic silver, but since this is a thread for a new member asking for advice, I would point out the these dealer prices are highly dependent on where you live, and what you are selling.  For example, I recently sold a decent amount of 2oz and 10oz silver Queen's Beasts to dealers, and all sales were above spot.  In this case they were closer to 80% of their own list prices for these coins which have developed a premium.

[goldking]

1 minute ago, sixgun said:

Is this helping the member who is asking for advice and mentorship?

Your continual attempts to argue points with opinion and bias rather than fact, no, definitely not, but pointing out the obvious flaws in your "advice" so that he doesn't end up in financial ruin, yes, it most definitely will be of help to him.

[sixgun]

38 minutes ago, goldking said:

Your continual attempts to argue points with opinion and bias rather than fact, no, definitely not, but pointing out the obvious flaws in your "advice" so that he doesn't end up in financial ruin, yes, it most definitely will be of help to him.

Now you are projecting as you did on the other thread - so i'm not going to bother responding to you - additionally this is not helping the member asking for advice.

[Kman]

2 hours ago, goldking said:

Back in the real world.......... 

Who would be dumb enough to BUY the silver you'd be trying to offload at those short-term inflated prices?  I can't say for sure but I'm reasonably confident if you carted your stash to your local coin stores, their offers would be based on the longer term mean price, not the current price.

A dealer would give you around spot, whatever spot is at the time and I'm sure they would be selling it as soon as it came in

Was it hard to sell bitcoin when it was reaching new heights? it was not

Wasn't it when gold was going up and up that cash for gold adverts were popular on tv? 

 

 

 

[goldking]

10 minutes ago, sixgun said:

Now you are projecting as you did on the other thread - so i'm not going to bother responding to you - additionally this is not helping the member asking for advice.

 

5 hours ago, sixgun said:

 An investment in silver prior to the price explosion and a sale at the highs would have made significantly more than you could have made in gold.

Your statement was factually incorrect.  Don't make factually incorrect statements if you're not willing to be challenged on them!

At what point in time do you wish to use to determine "prior" ?

19 July 2010 before the climb?  £11.63 > peak £29.25 on 28 April 2011 = £17.62 gain.  Gold for the same period £777.26 > £919.74 = £142.48 gain.

How about an even earlier time period, say when silver was lowest, to maximise your claim?

3 August 2011 - £1.96 > peak £29.25 = £27.29 gain.  Gold for the same period £189 > £919.75 = £730.75 gain.

Please show me the point in time where silver "would have made significantly more than you could have made in gold" to support your claim.  Providing misleading and incorrect information is not helping the member asking for advice!

[goldking]

7 minutes ago, Kman said:

A dealer would give you around spot, whatever spot is at the time and I'm sure they would be selling it as soon as it came in

Well clearly the 'buy' prices on HGMs site are wrong then .  Perhaps you should give them a ring to inform them of their silly error.

[Kman]

14 minutes ago, goldking said:

Well clearly the 'buy' prices on HGMs site are wrong then .  Perhaps you should give them a ring to inform them of their silly error.

BullionByPost will pay spot for a silver Britannia?

[goldking]

That is interesting..  Will have to wait until (if?) there's another big spike up in the silver price to see if they mirror their competitors in reducing the buy back percentage.  Based on HGM reducing to 75% on a £1 price increase I personally think it's unlikely that BBP were offering £29.25 buy back when spot went up to that in 2011.

[tennessee]

7 hours ago, Roy said:

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see much mentoring going on here. Sorry about Roy's quote, I don't know how to get rid of it

[sovereignsteve]

3 hours ago, sixgun said:

Is this helping the member who is asking for advice and mentorship?

Possibly. If silver were a rubbish investment then I'm sure the OP would like to be told so.

---

Added 0 minutes later...

Not that I'm saying it is, but another member was giving his views to that effect.

[Stuntman]

2 hours ago, goldking said:

 

<snip>

Atof what point in time do you wish to use to determine "prior" ?

19 July 2010 before the climb?  £11.63 > peak £29.25 on 28 April 2011 = £17.62 gain.  Gold for the same period £777.26 > £919.74 = £142.48 gain.

How about an even earlier time period, say when silver was lowest, to maximise your claim?

3 August 2011 - £1.96 > peak £29.25 = £27.29 gain.  Gold for the same period £189 > £919.75 = £730.75 gain.

Please show me the point in time where silver "would have made significantly more than you could have made in gold" to support your claim.  Providing misleading and incorrect information is not helping the member asking for advice!

If you had invested a lump sum (let's say £1000) in silver in either of those two examples, you would have received greater sales proceeds in each case compared to if you had invested the same £1000 in gold.  So the information that was provided is correct in the real world.

On your logic you would only have invested £11.63 in 1 oz of silver or invested £777.26 in 1 oz of gold  Those are clearly not the options that you would be choosing between.

[sixgun]

11 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

Possibly. If silver were a rubbish investment then I'm sure the OP would like to be told so.

---

Added 0 minutes later...

Not that I'm saying it is, but another member was giving his views to that effect.

i am aware this other member was voicing something - He was raking over a dispute from another thread and i have blocked him now (not the only person who has it seems) - it was becoming tiresome.

i have advised the OP about what i think he should do and that is to start off with smaller gold coins which are popular in Norway (his country). Once he has cut his teeth on precious metal collecting he can make his own mind up.

[goldking]

16 minutes ago, Stuntman said:

If you had invested a lump sum (let's say £1000) in silver in either of those two examples, you would have received greater sales proceeds in each case compared to if you had invested the same £1000 in gold.  So the information that was provided is correct in the real world.

On your logic you would only have invested £11.63 in 1 oz of silver or invested £777.26 in 1 oz of gold  Those are clearly not the options that you would be choosing between.

You can twist and manipulate the figures in a whole bunch of ways to get the outcome you want.  If you go back far enough in time and choose an appropriate time span you can swiftly put the percentage argument to bed.  How about about 1837% increase in the gold price in the 70s?  That is significantly more than the 1392% increase (£1.96 > £29.25) from my example above.

[LawrenceChard]

On 04/03/2020 at 17:06, goldking said:

Back in the real world.......... 

Who would be dumb enough to BUY the silver you'd be trying to offload at those short-term inflated prices?  I can't say for sure but I'm reasonably confident if you carted your stash to your local coin stores, their offers would be based on the longer term mean price, not the current price.  The reason for this being that they aren't stupid and know from looking at the historical prices that it's likely to drop back down in the near future.  You saw evidence of this last Monday when the spot price went to £14.50.  HGM (one of the higher paying dealers) usually pay 80% spot for silver, eg. they'll pay today £10.79 for Brits vs spot price of £13.50 (80%) but last Monday when spot was £14.50 they were only paying £10.87, which is only 75%.  I'm willing to bet that percentage would continue to reduce proportionately to the spot price rising until such a time arrived where the higher price was sustained for a long period of time.

There's also the small matter of the costs of getting your stash to them on top of that, which given the weight:value ratio of silver is going to be expensive if it's decent size stash.  You might well counter that argument by saying they could sell on here - which would be true enough - but as we've seen from other members' recent attempts to sell at ATHs, that hasn't panned out like they were expecting and they're still in possession even after reducing the price.

There's also the point to consider that even when the price went to £20-30 toz you'd have needed to have been holding tonnes of the stuff to make it worthwhile liquidating anyway.

The fact that dealers will only pay max 80% spot for silver but will pay 98% spot for gold (Krugs, Brits, Sovs) tells you everything you need to know about where they see the market demand and future price for each metal.

I can hardly believe what I am reading!

I can't remember a time when we have ever offered less than spot for UK silver Britannias.

I don't think we have offered less than spot even for other one ounce silver bullion coins, or bars.

About a month ago, we bought in about 2,500 Canadian silver maples, I think we paid £14 each for them which was spot at the time.

We sold them all quite quickly, anybody got any more to sell?

Sure, scrap silver is relatively messy and expensive to refine and recycle, compared with gold, but who in their right mind would sell one ounce silver bullion coins at 80% of spot? They are not scrap.

When we bought them, and I saw the silver price, I will confess to thinking "watch silver drop to £13 tomorrow", but this is just one of the everyday risks of our job, and it's probably a lower risk than crossing the road, or getting out of bed in the morning.

[goldking]

7 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

I can hardly believe what I am reading!

I can't remember a time when we have ever offered less than spot for UK silver Britannias.

I don't think we have offered less than spot even for other one ounce silver bullion coins, or bars.

About a month ago, we bought in about 2,500 Canadian silver maples, I think we paid £14 each for them which was spot at the time.

We sold them all quite quickly, anybody got any more to sell?

Sure, scrap silver is relatively messy and expensive to refine and recycle, compared with gold, but who in their right mind would sell one ounce silver bullion coins at 80% of spot? They are not scrap.

When we bought them, and I saw the silver price, I will confess to thinking "watch silver drop to £13 tomorrow", but this is just one of the everyday risks of our job, and it's probably a lower risk than crossing the road, or getting out of bed in the morning.

I did email BBP shortly after writing that to see what their policy was when if/when there was a big spike in silver price.  They replied that they didn't have a set policy, but "it's a scenario we are prepared for and our buy-back prices would be adjusted accordingly".  That could be interpreted in many ways but reading between the lines it sounds to me like if silver spot jumped to £50 tomorrow, you wouldn't be able to walk in with your entire silver stash and get £50 a piece for all your bullion 1 ozers.  If you would then fair play and I'm happy to stand corrected.