Trading gold bars for sovereigns?

[JayB]

What if....

 

I have 13 5g gold bars. That's 65g of gold.

 

I would like to exchange these for 8 full sovereigns or 16 half sovereigns.

 

Now (get your calculators out guys) Bullion by post will offer me 97% spot so 1634 pounds.

 

Spot value is 65 x 25.91 =1684.15 pounds.

 

HGM will sell 8 full sovereigns (bullion) for 1591.12 pounds.

 

Would you? EOI please  

[ChrisSilver]

I don't like fractionals, and I don't like sovereigns (because they are 24t) 

But I do think you would get more enjoyment from having coins in your collection. They feel more substantial. (Though I have never held a sovereign, so not sure what they feel like to be honest)

[JayB]

Yes, I'd feel more of a collector than a stacker! 

[sovereignsteve]

I don't like fractionals, and I don't like sovereigns (because they are 24t) 

But I do think you would get more enjoyment from having coins in your collection. They feel more substantial. (Though I have never held a sovereign, so not sure what they feel like to be honest)

Sorry Chris, am I being thick? 24t ?

 

However, sovereigns feel great, you can hold the bullion ones and feel the detail. That's before I rabbit on about the gorgeous look of a really good specimen with all that mint lustre on the background.

[FriedrichVonHayek]

What if....

 

I have 13 5g gold bars. That's 65g of gold.

 

I would like to exchange these for 8 full sovereigns or 16 half sovereigns.

 

Now (get your calculators out guys) Bullion by post will offer me 97% spot so 1634 pounds.

 

Spot value is 65 x 25.91 =1684.15 pounds.

 

HGM will sell 8 full sovereigns (bullion) for 1591.12 pounds.

 

Would you? EOI please  

I would keep the bars and not bother with the the Sovereigns unless you want to start collecting them.

It all depends whether you are a stacker or collector.

In my opinion you are best buying the highest purity at the lowest price.

Also the capital gains aspect on Sovereigns does not really matter unless you are investing tens of thousands of pounds in Gold.

[ChrisSilver]

@sovereignsteve Autocorrect the ct to t. 24ct I meant. But I think soverigns are actually 22ct (22 carats)?

[Kman]

Jay I'm kind of in a similar position to you

 

I have two 1 oz gold bullion Britannia's that I bought early on that don't really have that much of a numismatic value, so aren't really better than bars. 

 

I'm waiting for spot to spike up a bit before I sell them (maybe) on here, or much more likely to Atkinsons, then I will hang back watching HGM like a hawk and wait to pick up the numesmatic bargains when they come in. 

 

Preferably shield sovereigns, maybe some historic US stuff, maybe a modern proof. 

 

In my opinion you are best buying the highest purity at the lowest price.

 

Totally disagree with this

 

In the UK with HGM often selling numismatic coins at only 3% over spot, there's often a possibility of an instant profit flipping them.

 

Would I rather buy a gold bar that will only ever be worth spot, or a numismatic coin that I could probably make an instant profit on + is more likely to rise in value over time almost regardless of spot..

 

For me it's a very easy choice. 

[Danny-boy]

@sovereignsteve Autocorrect. 24ct.

Sovereigns are 24 carats gold. Not 999 fine gold.

I thought they were 22 carat?

I also thought 24 carat gold was almost 999

[FriedrichVonHayek]

Jay I'm kind of in a similar position to you

 

I have two 1 oz gold bullion Britannia's that I bought early on that don't really have that much of a numismatic value, so aren't really better than bars. 

 

I'm waiting for spot to spike up a bit before I sell them (maybe) on here, or much more likely to Atkinsons, then I will hang back watching HGM like a hawk and wait to pick up the numesmatic bargains when they come in. 

 

Preferably shield sovereigns, maybe some historic US stuff, maybe a modern proof. 

 

 

Totally disagree with this

 

In the UK with HGM often selling numismatic coins at only 3% over spot, there's often a possibility of an instant profit flipping them.

 

Would I rather buy a gold bar that will only ever be worth spot, or a numismatic coin that I could probably make an instant profit on + is more likely to rise in value over time almost regardless of spot..

 

For me it's a very easy choice. 

If you can flip and make some money fair enough.

I have had my fair share of success myself.

Any time I do have a good score I reinvest into the cheapest forms of Gold and Silver I can lay my hands on.

For me its all about how many ounces I own.

[JayB]

Thanks guys.

 

This really does differentiate the stacker and the collector!

 

Generally, bars are higher % over spot than coins, but only ever worth spot at best? 

 

I think sovs are easier to shift, and I'd get greater pleasure having them.

[ChrisSilver]

@Danny-boy Yes your right.  shows how much I know about sovereigns and carats. lol 

[sovereignsteve]

Why?

If you're a stacker, why not buy the most gold for the lowest price, regardless of purity?

 

In my opinion you are best buying the highest purity at the lowest price.

 

[Keithoil]

Thanks guys.

 

This really does differentiate the stacker and the collector!

 

Generally, bars are higher % over spot than coins, but only ever worth spot at best? 

 

I think sovs are easier to shift, and I'd get greater pleasure having them.

 

Hi JayB

 

Sounds like the decision has been made.

[FriedrichVonHayek]

Why?

If you're a stacker, why not buy the most gold for the lowest price, regardless of purity?

Because lower purity Gold usually comes in the form of Jewellery which is always priced way above its scrap weight.

[JayB]

Keith, I think so.

 

At least for the smaller stuff. I've tried to diversify and hold lots of different sizes. Actually, the majority of my holding is Vietnamese Taels...now they feel good in the hand! 

 

I was just concerned about how to sell them when the time comes.

 

JB

[Lea79]

Why not trade in a few bars for a few sovereigns see how you feel about them when they're in your hands? Best of both worlds

[sovereignsteve]

Because lower purity Gold usually comes in the form of Jewellery which is always priced way above its scrap weight.

Hello, we were talking about gold bars and sovereigns here, who mentioned jewellery?

There are lots of world coins comprising of .500 up to .999 gold, many can be had on the secondary market for around spot.

Also, the public in the UK sell many, many ozs of scrap jewellery per year at substantially less than spot.

[FriedrichVonHayek]

Hello, we were talking about gold bars and sovereigns here, who mentioned jewellery?

There are lots of world coins comprising of .500 up to .999 gold, many can be had on the secondary market for around spot.

Also, the public in the UK sell many, many ozs of scrap jewellery per year at substantially less than spot.

You mentioned lower purity Gold,so I assumed you meant Jewellery.

As for low purity Gold coins I can't think of any that I have come across as most world Gold coins have a high Gold content of around 90%.

The only low grade Gold coins I know of are Electrum coins from ancient times.

As for the public selling their Jewellery for less than spot that's because the Gold dealer has to sell it on and make some money.

I am not a commercial enterprise so I don't have access to the public who wish to sell me precious metals under spot,I am just some guy on the internet who tries to pick up a deal every now and then.

I was lucky enough to sell most of my Silver and Gold in 2011 and based on that experience I decided to buy mostly scrap when I started stacking again.

I sold around 700 ounces of Silver coins and bars on eBay which took a couple of months to liquidate,also eBay made hundreds of pounds off me in fees.

With Silver being so volatile it is better to be able to sell it quickly which is why I buy scrap Silver.

I don't wish to denigrate anybody who wishes to collect coins as a hobby but you have to gain a vast amount of knowledge to make it lucrative.

My philosophy is buy it cheap and stack it high!

[sovereignsteve]

You mentioned lower purity Gold,so I assumed you meant Jewellery.

As for low purity Gold coins I can't think of any that I have come across as most world Gold coins have a high Gold content of around 90%.

What I said was

 "buy the most gold for the lowest price, regardless of purity"

I didn't necessarily mean "lower purity" in the sense of 9 ct jewellery etc, although you could argue anything less than .999 is such

 

You are probably right about the 90% but I have seen them down to 50% (I have one somewhere) and have come across a fair few over the years at between this and 90%

 

It's not too difficult to get hold of some scrap gold at below spot, just put it around via friends that you will pay more than the 75 - 80% (or less) that some chancers will give, and you'll do OK at times. You don't have to be a business, word spreads.

[FriedrichVonHayek]

What I said was

 "buy the most gold for the lowest price, regardless of purity"

I didn't necessarily mean "lower purity" in the sense of 9 ct jewellery etc, although you could argue anything less than .999 is such

 

You are probably right about the 90% but I have seen them down to 50% (I have one somewhere) and have come across a fair few over the years at between this and 90%

 

It's not too difficult to get hold of some scrap gold at below spot, just put it around via friends that you will pay more than the 75 - 80% (or less) that some chancers will give, and you'll do OK at times. You don't have to be a business, word spreads.

I have seen some 50% Gold coins at an auction,they were Proof Gold coins from some obscure Caribbean Island.

As I recall somebody paid well over the odds,presumably thinking they had a higher Gold content.

Anybody buying Gold Proof and Silver Proof coins from Commonwealth states should be wary and sign up to Numismaster to research any obscure Proof coins.

A lot of the Commonwealth coins vary wildly in their precious metal content.

If you can make a few Quid buying scrap Gold off people all well and good,I don't really like to advertise the fact that I buy Precious metals.

[sovereignsteve]

I have seen some 50% Gold coins at an auction,they were Proof Gold coins from some obscure Caribbean Island.

As I recall somebody paid well over the odds,presumably thinking they had a higher Gold content.

Anybody buying Gold Proof and Silver Proof coins from Commonwealth states should be wary and sign up to Numismaster to research any obscure Proof coins.

A lot of the Commonwealth coins vary wildly in their precious metal content.

If you can make a few Quid buying scrap Gold off people all well and good,I don't really like to advertise the fact that I buy Precious metals.

I don't think there's any problem with these obscure commonwealth proof coins; the RM make all sorts of things and badge them up for all manner of countries.

Re: scrap gold. I don't do it myself but know people who have. It's too much trouble but you can make money doing it, no different to all manner of trading.

[FriedrichVonHayek]

I don't think there's any problem with these obscure commonwealth proof coins; the RM make all sorts of things and badge them up for all manner of countries.

Re: scrap gold. I don't do it myself but know people who have. It's too much trouble but you can make money doing it, no different to all manner of trading.

Most of the Commonwealth countries have had some Gold Proof coins minted with a Gold fineness of 0.583 in the last 40 years or so,also Commonwealth Silver Proof coins can vary in fineness from 0.500 to 0.999 most of which were likely minted by The Royal Mint.

[Murph]

Aren't a lot of the small islands and countries .500 coins minted by Franklin or Pobjoy mints?

[sovereignsteve]

Aren't a lot of the small islands and countries .500 coins minted by Franklin or Pobjoy mints?

certainly some, yes.