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westminstrel

2020 Una and the Lion

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22 minutes ago, Tn21 said:

Agree with Paul (safety) and that your safety and well-being is the most important aspect of this transaction. It's a good result.

 

4 minutes ago, ShaolinStacker said:

Nah You were spot on. Speaking of safety he asked to meet me at my hotel. Instead of the agreed upon Major Bank Branch Lobby.

I refused and changed my Whatsapp photo from a happy family picture.

To one that shows that I'm a 6'1 250 pound (17.8 stone) Black Belt World Championship Level Judoka for team USA. Everything was smooth after that :) :) :) . 

Safety is a massive concern when dealing with such an amount of cash, just this past week i read this on Daily Mail for big deal done in cash 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7930931/Balaclava-clad-thugs-beat-rob-couple-travelled-190-miles-buy-Mercedes-Ebay.html

Safety is key 

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10 minutes ago, Paul said:

 

Safety is a massive concern when dealing with such an amount of cash, just this past week i read this on Daily Mail for big deal done in cash 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7930931/Balaclava-clad-thugs-beat-rob-couple-travelled-190-miles-buy-Mercedes-Ebay.html

Safety is key 

For transactions like this. Meeting in a major Bank or Police Station lobby is a must. Robberies like the article you shared are a major issue here in the USA. Banks and Police Stations are considered "Safe Exchange points" here in the USA. Will always be sticking to them for any major transaction. If they won't meet there major red flags.

Edited by ShaolinStacker

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4 minutes ago, Xander said:

Do you know ebay offer protection with gold?

Ebay Offers 30 day protection for buyers and sellers if they open a claim with Ebay. The problem is that if either opens a claim with Paypal (such as a credit card charge back) They say it is out of there hands, and there is nothing they can do. I spoke with 6 people at Ebay all the way up to Management level. They basically said if the buyer opens a charge back with paypal you're screwed. Now the interesting thing is Paypal offers no buyer or seller protection for gold. So the big thing to watch out for is credit card charge backs. Buyer has up typically up to 120-160 days to file a charge back with their credit card company.

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3 minutes ago, ShaolinStacker said:

Ebay Offers 30 day protection for buyers and sellers if they open a claim with Ebay. The problem is that if either opens a claim with Paypal (such as a credit card charge back) They say it is out of there hands, and there is nothing they can do. I spoke with 6 people at Ebay all the way up to Management level. They basically said if the buyer opens a charge back with paypal you're screwed. Now the interesting thing is Paypal offers no buyer or seller protection for gold. So the big thing to watch out for is credit card charge backs. Buyer has up typically up to 120-160 days to file a charge back with their credit card company.

 I suppose then between ebay and RM special delivery you have a chance claiming one of them if something goes wrong. Thanks for the info.

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5 minutes ago, Xander said:

 I suppose then between ebay and RM special delivery you have a chance claiming one of them if something goes wrong. Thanks for the info.

For a £20000 item would you risk it???

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17 minutes ago, Cornishfarmer said:

@ShaolinStacker¬†you did well to buy that amount of gold in cash. ¬† ¬†A few weeks ago they were saying that in Germany they were only letting people spend 2000‚ā¨ in each transaction¬†

Youre correct.That's if you dont want to show ID. I had no problem showing mine. Went through a big dealer ProArum. They didn't take my social security number just drivers license. One super interesting thing is almost every major bank in Germany stocks a full range of bullion and bars. From Eagles to sovereigns they have it all. @Cornishfarmer

Edited by ShaolinStacker

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Good evening everybody,

I am glad that everything ended up nicely for you @ShaolinStacker
Following other's reaction,  I also think that this buyer's behaviour was not honest at all as a deal is a deal.  You positionned yourself in a low way and he perfectly knew that. You wanted your money, being ready to pay for a 14hours  flight trip, hotel and so on, and he just took the opportunity  to manage the deal the way he wanted and  trapped you once you accepted his rules.  Why did you end up accepting to come with naked hands and did not required a deposit for your expenses  for say 15% of the coin value in order to secure the deal ? You said that he would not  have accepted it but hey, at these prices levels,  you have the right to be cautious and there is way more than one buyer worlwide for your valuable and rare coin to be confident enough  in order to edict your own rules and take time to sell to someone else. You probably thought that this coin was a hot potatoe and accepting  to come to him like that, you were more driven by irrationnality and emotion,  you had something to lose, he did not had anything to lose...this buyer felt these weaknesses and he led you by the nose dictating his conditions ( please consider this with all my due respect)

More over, your own safety was involved and you never know who you have in front of you. Granted the transaction came nicely, but you could have had some problems later if this buyer was a criminal...

May I ask you how did you declare your coin for that trip, and for what value ? and more important, I imagine that you did not declare the money you had with you when coming back to the US, with the risk of being seized by customs as you were way beyond the 10000$ limit , not to mention the likely consequences with the IRS, in a context where suspicious capital transfers are closely monitored  "https://www.hg.org/legal-articles/can-customs-seize-my-money-when-i-enter-the-country-and-is-there-a-limit-43609"

Why in the end didn't  you ended up requiring a bank transfer instead of Paypal for this transaction and take a first class shipping carrier ??

 There are always risks of course, but not at the level of those you did take IMHO

Edited by Frenchie

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15 minutes ago, Frenchie said:

Good evening everybody,

I am glad that everything ended up nicely for you @ShaolinStacker
Following other's reaction,  I also think that this buyer's behaviour was not honest at all as a deal is a deal.  You positionned yourself in a low way and he perfectly knew that. You wanted your money, being ready to pay for a 14hours  flight trip, hotel and so on, and he just took the opportunity  to manage the deal the way he wanted and  trapped you once you accepted his rules.  Why did you end up accepting to come with naked hands and did not required a deposit for your expenses  for say 15% of the coin value in order to secure the deal ? You said that he would not  have accepted it but hey, at these prices levels,  you have the right to be cautious and there is way more than one buyer worlwide for your valuable and rare coin to be confident enough  in order to edict your rules and take time to sell to someone else. You probably thought that this coin was a hot potatoe and accepting  to come to him like that, you were more driven by irrationnality and emotion,  you had something to lose, he did not had anything to lose...this buyer felt these weaknesses and he led you by the nose dictating his conditions ( please consider this with all my due respect)

More over, your own safety was involved and you never know who you have in front of you. Granted the transaction came nicely, but you could have had some problems later if this buyer was a criminal...

May I ask you how did you declare your coin for that trip, and for what value ? and more important, I imagine that you did not declare the money you had with you when coming back to the US, with the risk of being seized by customs as you were way beyond the 10000$ limit , not to mention the likely consequences with the IRS, in a context where suspicious capital transfers are closely monitored  https://www.hg.org/legal-articles/can-customs-seize-my-money-when-i-enter-the-country-and-is-there-a-limit-43609

Why in the end didn't  you ended up requiring a bank transfer instead of Paypal for this transaction and take a first class shipping carrier ??

 There are always risks of course, but not at the level of those you did take IMHO

Totally agree with everything you're saying. I shouldn't have been so trusting. In the end it all worked out and I ended up with the a similar amount I would have with paypal minus my travel fees (but I did have a really nice 5 day trip to Bavaria). I had spoken with him alot before leaving and he seemed very honest. I had his name address ect. I came prepared to deal with a criminal by not giving flight or hotel information. Only meeting at location of Major bank near police station. Arrived early and informed Management of the transaction. Left securely with escort to my vehicle through the banks elevator. (Tried to dot my lower case j in that sense)

As for customs $10,000 is not the limit. It is the limit if you do not wish to declare. Gold bullion has 0 VAT import fee or any taxes into the USA. Neither does Germany. Google it. Always best bet to declare rather than risk seizure. Customs was super cool literally no problems at all. They were indifferent and asked no questions. Right away I was like I have a decent amount of gold. Response was "and......."  Most of the currency exchange places in Airports will convert to gold bullion. I had my receipts for the gold from the shop in case. They never asked to see them Really good experience. $25 grand is really not much in the world these days. I did my research and declared everything both ways

 

Edited by ShaolinStacker

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5 minutes ago, ShaolinStacker said:

Totally agree with everything you're saying. I shouldn't have been so trusting. In the end it all worked out and I ended up with the a similar amount I would have with paypal minus my travel fees (but I did have a really nice 5 day trip to Bavaria). I had spoken with him alot before leaving and he seemed very honest. I had his name address ect. I came prepared to deal with a criminal by not giving flight or hotel information. Only meeting at location of Major bank near police station. Arrived early and informed Management of the transaction. Left securely with escort to my vehicle through the banks elevator. (Tried to dot my lower case j in that sense)

As for customs $10,000 is not the limit. It is the limit if you do not wish to declare. Gold bullion has 0 VAT import fee or any taxes into the USA. Neither does Germany. Google it. Always best bet to declare rather than risk seizure. Customs was super cool literally no problems at all. They were indifferent and asked no questions. Right away I was like I have a decent amount of gold. Response was "and......."  Most of the currency exchange places in Airports will convert to gold bullion. I had my receipts for the gold from the shop in case. They never asked to see them Really good experience. $25 grand is really not much in the world these days. I did my research and declared everything both ways

 

I am sure that everything were fine going to Europe, with "only"¬† 2oz of gold with you. (I would be curious to know if customs would accept a declared face value for a legal tender coin¬†ūüėŹ)

But the question, is coming back to US with 21k‚ā¨ and 1oz gold, roughly 24500$ in cash with you¬†¬†

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9 hours ago, ShaolinStacker said:

@Paul @sovereignsteve

Yes, sale went through. I ended up canceling the Ebay auction and flying to Munich Germany to deliver the coin for cash. After thoroughly reading the ebay and paypal policies. Neither of us felt safe going through either of them. Turns out the buyer is a member here on the forum, and was reading this thread as we were discussing it. Transaction went well... Other than upon landing in Munich. The buyer messaged me saying that "his partner backed out of the deal and he could only pay me $24,000 and a 2018 Netherlands Gold Lion dollar($2000 in my Estimate) $26,000 total(19,950 Pounds)" instead of the agreed $29000(22,255 Pounds). I was really upset, and felt taken advantage of a bit. As he promised me multiple times he already had the money. After travelling half way across the world I decided to give him the coin at the price. After Flight, Hotel, food, and 3 days missed work I ended up taking home about $23,000. Before leaving Germany I converted the $$ to 4x 100G gold bars and 7 Victoria Jubilee sovereigns. Came home and sold 1- 100 gram bar to pay the CC from purchasing the coin. All, and all worked out pretty well other than the last minute stiff on a few thousand. I figure that with the $750 I would have paid Ebay and the 4% I would have paid Paypal kinda broke even.(I'm guessing thats what the buyer was counting on as well)

I'm angry on your behalf! That's such a scum move by the buyer. And I say that knowing well that they are probably reading this.

To guarantee the deal then demand a discount when you've already invested in the travel... unbelievable. Plus there's no way they are a collector of the calibre to buy this coin but don't own any other gold other than the one coin they¬†gave you - so I don't believe for one moment they¬†couldn't cover the shortfall in the agreed price if they wanted to. In fact I don't believe for one moment there was a partner at all. Disgraceful behaviour.¬†You're a calmer man than me, I'd have told the lousy git to get stuffed and taken my coin back home¬†ūüė£

In my opinion when someone deliberately screws you over like that you should have no qualms about naming and shaming (their forum name that is...). May help others avoid a similar situation. But your call of course. 

Still, c.450 grams of gold for 2oz isn't a bad outcome at least! 

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3 minutes ago, Frenchie said:

I am sure that everything were fine going to Europe, with "only"¬† 2oz of gold with you. (I would be curious to know if customs would accept a declared face value for a legal tender coin¬†ūüėŹ)

But the question, is coming back to US with 21k‚ā¨ and 1oz gold, roughly 24500$ in cash with you¬†¬†

Ahhh you missed my earlier post. I traded my cash for 4x100g gold bars and 7 soverigns at ProArum in Munich. Came back in with I believe just under 16 ozs. I declared every bit of gold coming back into the USA and had no cash on me. Very important rule dont declare face value on gold coins. Easiest way to get confiscated. Yes yes I know its gov issued currency. Try explaining that to a pleb. 

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10 minutes ago, Frenchie said:

I am sure that everything were fine going to Europe, with "only"¬† 2oz of gold with you. (I would be curious to know if customs would accept a declared face value for a legal tender coin¬†ūüėŹ)

But the question, is coming back to US with 21k‚ā¨ and 1oz gold, roughly 24500$ in cash with you¬†¬†

Why is that an issue if it's declared and he has receipts? I don't see the concern given he's done nothing wrong personally. 

There is a risk of people overthinking this a little bit. People walk around wearing watches worth more than this lol (not me!). 

Edit - nevermind, I see Shaolin has clarified the cash vs gold bit, your post makes more sense now! 

Edited by Melon

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Just now, Melon said:

Why is that an issue if it's declared and he has receipts? I don't see the concern given he's done nothing wrong personally. 

There is a risk of people overthinking this a little bit. People walk around wearing watches worth more than this lol (not me!). 

Ran out of reactions but thanks on the previous post. If my wife wasn't preg and I didn't have an 11 month old 99% I would have told him to pound sand. Live and learn. I was super worried coming back in with the bullion myself but they literally could care less. I was in shock at how cool they were. The world fair of money was in Germany that weekend so I had a whole story if they hassle me but they literally said nothing just thank you sir.

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I'd be curious to know if @RegalStacker sold his 2018 PF70 lion dollar? I remember he was asking something like $10,000 for it if I'm correct. If I get a PF70(looks super nice) and even half that much for it. It will pretty much even out the whole deal

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https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/royal-mint-largest-coin-ever-gold-great-engravers-series-william-wyon-a9216491.html?amp
 

just a story i came across about the 5kg coin. I guess with that design being the 1st 5kg coin it helps to cement it as a future classic (although its a remake of a classic classic lol)

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35 minutes ago, CadmiumGreen said:

Unbelievable...Note the time (US Eastern Time). I received an email Alert at 3:52.
 

96793F36-3218-415C-BEE3-853EBF35EECF.thumb.png.b9d237256afc41db167a809fc7c9d55c.png

7266FD89-5008-4B3F-8318-04427840894E.thumb.png.ec4bddfe253183b913704baac5da66cf.png

Hmmmmmmm popular in America, may Una and some mouse ears to make a deal. 

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1 hour ago, CadmiumGreen said:

Unbelievable...Note the time (US Eastern Time). I received an email Alert at 3:52.
 

96793F36-3218-415C-BEE3-853EBF35EECF.thumb.png.b9d237256afc41db167a809fc7c9d55c.png

7266FD89-5008-4B3F-8318-04427840894E.thumb.png.ec4bddfe253183b913704baac5da66cf.png

What...

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On 04/02/2020 at 23:03, ShaolinStacker said:

The world fair of money was in Germany that weekend so I had a whole story if they hassle me but they literally said nothing just thank you sir.

I can hear the twanging of the rubber gloves-¬†if you had landed at Heathrow¬†ūüôĄ¬†

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