Time to play the ETF game

[HighlandTiger]

.......I've finally dipped my toe into allocated PM's at Bullion Vault. Only a little toe though, as I've only deposited £50. And before anyone posts about commission and storage charges etc, yes I know all about them, but I'm doing this for a bit of fun at the moment, not as a serious bullion investment.

 

As an old hand on the betting website, Betfair, where thanks to the knowledge i gained working for William Hill, I used to make a small profit on laying bets every year, (until the charges wiped out the small margins I was working on), I'm very used to the layout of the BV buy/sell platform. So I think I can probably recycle that £50 over time to increase my ounce holdings.

 

So I'm going to be trying to trade my small amounts on the silver market using the volatility of the Silver markets wild daily swings in order to increase my ounces. I'm going to see how long it takes for me to double my ounces. If it takes me a week or 15 years, I'm not bothered, because as I said, It's only a bit of fun. If I get good at it, I will probably try to trade my "profits" in for real physical silver and gold.

 

Currently I have spent my £50 (plus the £3 or so BV gave me as a signing up "gift"), and I now have 5.11 oz of silver sitting somewhere in a vault in London.   

 

[Stretch]

Interesting. I wonder if you might be better off trading option futures on a trading platform though. I have a wee play around with plus500 myself it's very user friendly. I did make the mistake of using real money but now I just use a demo account. I'm told that gold and silver in particular is the worst to predict price movements compared to major currency pairs and other commoditys.

[Paul]

I can understand your logic of having a little dabble with bullionvault like that.

On a starting investment of £50 you are not going to ever get much major upside or likewise you are not going to go to zero either

 

I would think you could make better use of your cash and putting it towards whatever your personal skill set is in life.

 

A 50p or £1 or £5 profit certainly wouldn't excite me in the least.

 

You want to be looking at possibilities of using that £50 to turn it into £100

 

Bullionvault charges/spread per oz are exceptionally reasonable normally its just 3-4p either side of spot for London Silver

 

I have a reasonable chunk of cash sat in both bullionvault and goldmoney.

 

I have sold in and out of silver & gold positions through bullionvault (playing the markets if you will).  But on more than four occasions i have thought i was guess right and low and behold the price goes down further vertical.  

 

You are then in position when you are at a loss for what can be weeks/months

 

My holding in goldmoney is steady and a slow drip feed building stack given their commissions are significantly higher than bullionvault.

 

But as i am not all eggs in one basket type of person these slightly higher fees are still less than paying for delivered coin/bars 

[HighlandTiger]

I'm told that gold and silver in particular is the worst to predict price movements compared to major currency pairs and other commoditys.

 

I'm actually banking on this fact. The unpredictabilty is what creates the large swings of 3 or 4% in a day. Unlike most traders who are doing it to make a regular income and will be making hundreds of trades a day, making a bit here, losing a bit there etc, I'm in no rush, and will only trade when I profit from it. If it means I don't trade for several weeks (or perhaps months), then so be it.

 

Market fluctuations are no different to the ones seen in any horse racing market. When a horse's price starts going out, the sheep punters will think it's loser and the price will drift even more, as the layers try to get their money matched. If a horses prices falls the mugs think it has a better chance, they pile into it and the price drops even more. The thing is, the horse itself doesn't know the prices, and you can make money if you think the price has drifted more than it should do or if a horses price has come in too far and then you can lay it.

 

The same mugs/sheep play the financial markets, they just wear different clothes.

[motorbikez]

 

 

The same mugs/sheep play the financial markets, they just wear different clothes.

 

You are absolutely correct as long as you are playing for a bit of fun,I wish you the best of luck with it.Just to keep you focused and true HT here is a post I made in another thread.

 

http://thesilverforum.com/topic/2186-does-it-stack-up/?p=34993

[HighlandTiger]

 

I would think you could make better use of your cash and putting it towards whatever your personal skill set is in life.

 

 

Actually my personal skill sets is actually statistics and how to read them, and people and how to read them. This is why I find the markets fascinating. well not the markets themselves, but the people who trade in them. The facts are that very few people actually know what they are doing on them, They all rely on guru's and experts, and money blogs and tips from investment companies.  

 

Laughably the exact same thing exists in the horse racing industry, but no one in stocks and shares would claim what they are doing is gambling. But it is.....

 

The idea is simple, use the sheep mentality of other people to follow trends, and this is the hardest one to grasp, don't get greedy. Many a person has blown profits on the next "good thing", (shares, commodities or horses, it doesn't matter), so stick to making profits, little and often, and whatever you do DON'T CHASE LOSSES.  

[Stretch]

Folks that trade the markets professionaly HT live by their charts. Understanding how to read various formations in candlestick charts and knowing about Elliot waves and Fibonacci resistance points is where it's at. "Guro's, experts and moneyblogs" are for complete amateurs.

[HighlandTiger]

Folks that trade the markets professionaly HT live by their charts. Understanding how to read various formations in candlestick charts and knowing about Elliot waves and Fibonacci resistance points is where it's at. "Guro's, experts and moneyblogs" are for complete amateurs.

 

LOL I have to laugh at that statement. Not at you for making that statement, but because the "professionals" actually believe what they read into the charts is what actually makes them their money. It doesn't, because in reality it becomes a self-fulfiling prophecy, if they all believe the same things, and do the same things when they see the same things, then guess what, the charts will appear to react as they think they should. 

 

It's the people who go against the obvious grain at just the right time, are the ones who make the money. 

[BaldyBob]

To spark some friendly debate, I find this sort of trading ETF's against my stacking principles

[Stretch]

Yes that is the Fibonacci tool that everyone uses so becomes self fulfilling. I'm no expert but these chart tools are pretty nifty, if only I had the time to learn as big money can be made. News trading off central bank statements and the non farm payroll etc not that difficult.

[Fluttershy]

I am kinda tempted to "buy" (exchange) a tenner in GBP for as many Roubles as I can get as it`s an historic low.

even with the paypal fee for exchange, I`m pretty sure it`ll recoup that spread and more when it goes back up again.

[HighlandTiger]

I've got 15 old roubles, (£1's worth at the time), somewhere in my parents loft, that I "forgot" to return on leaving the USSR in the mid 80's. You weren't supposed to take any currency out of the USSR at the time. I'll need to see if I can find them at some time.  

[Fluttershy]

LOL, I did exactly the same thing!

only I took mine out deliberately, hidden in a CD case. mine are 1997 roubles, a 100, a 50 and a 10 note, I also have many of the old coins too.

[silversword]

I do find the term ETF to be somewhat disingenuous when referring to Bullionvault or Goldmoney, as that isn't what they are. Also £50 is really not sufficient capital to trade silver - you are going to struggle to buy enough metal to offset vault fees and trading comission. But hey ho. It's a gamble.

...Kind of like buying Roubles. All fiat currencies go to zero, and the Rouble is on its way down, hard. Let's see what happens.

[BaldyBob]

With regard to the Rouble, my preferred scenario would be that to strengthen/safeguard the rouble they link it in some way to a gold or silver standard. That would really be interesting.

 

However, I realise that this is very wishful thinking  and I doubt that have sufficient reserves yet anyway.

[HighlandTiger]

I think the rouble is strengthening quite nicely itself without linking to anything.

[BaldyBob]

Of course it is only strengthening against other depreciating fiat currencies