A little help with my Saudi Gold Guinea

[BackyardBullion]

Howdy all, I did a video today on my Saudi Arabia Gold Guinea bought from Atkinson's Bullion a few weeks ago.

A few people commented that it might be a fake coin as it is quite worn and that it has "22" on it.

Now, I have done a specific gravity test as well as dimensions and weights which are all bang on correct for weight, dimension and 22ct Gold.

So, I am confident that I have real gold, but do I have a real Saudi Gold Guinea or is it a counterfeit coin?

I have not been able to find much info on the "22" part, a few photos from Google image searchs show "MOM 22" but not just "22" on its own.

Any thoughts/comments would be very helpful from anyone that knows more than I do!

[kimchi]

What year is it meant to be?

[BackyardBullion]

Just now, kimchi said:

What year is it meant to be?

I am not 100% sure - someone on YouTube comment section said it was a 1957

[Fathallazf]

1370 AH is 1950 

[BackyardBullion]

4 minutes ago, Fathallazf said:

1370 AH is 1950 

Where on the coin can you tell that?

[Fathallazf]

Hello BYB,

I attached where the date is mentioned. It is not that clear though. Can you post a better photo on the highlighted? Just to make sure. But it looks like ١٣٧٠ which is 1950 Georgian 

 

 

[BackyardBullion]

4 minutes ago, Fathallazf said:

Hello BYB,

I attached where the date is mentioned. It is not that clear though. Can you post a better photo on the highlighted? Just to make sure. But it looks like ١٣٧٠ which is 1950 Georgian 

 

 

Ok, thanks. I don't think the picture can get much clearer tonight, but regardless what about the "22" part?

 

[Fathallazf]

I honestly dont know much about the coin. But when i searched, i found “22” as a hallmark on NGC website. A different than yours. And it says counterfeit but they didn't mention the hallmark. 

https://www.ngccoin.com/resources/counterfeit-detection/top/world/6/

Edited May 31, 2019 by Fathallazf

[BackyardBullion]

4 minutes ago, Fathallazf said:

I honestly dont know much about the coin. But when i searched, i found “22” as a hallmark on NGC website. A different than yours. 

https://www.ngccoin.com/resources/counterfeit-detection/top/world/6/

Thanks - I have seen a few photos of items with "MOM 22" on them. But mine has no "MOM" on it!

Very strange indeed!

[barney]

The Saudi Arabia Gold One Guinea Coins were only minted in 1950 and 1957, I think your coin is a modern reproduction of the coin and could still be 22-carat gold a bit like the jeweler's copies of sovereigns from the middle east some times with 22 stamped on them. The reason I think this is your coin looks to weakly struck and very soft detail with no obvious signs of wear. I hope you get to the bottom of the mystery and look forward to what you find out 

[BackyardBullion]

@barney thanks buddy, this is what I suspect too.

I have contacted Atkinson's and we will see what they think.

Will be an interesting process to see if they would even consider a return/refund/replacement as it has been 12 days since the purchase, but it certainly does not look like their listing.

 

[kimchi]

I'm no expert by any means but that was my first thought - gold or not, it didn't look struck properly.

[Guybrush]

This is really bad for atkinsons, as a trusted dealer I have always relied on them not providing fake/restrike coins.  I will certainly be checking everything in more details from now on!

Edited May 31, 2019 by Guybrush

[BackyardBullion]

6 minutes ago, Guybrush said:

This is really bad for atkinsons, as a trusted dealer I have always relied on them not providing fake/restrike coins.  I will certainly be checking everything in more details from now on!

I agree with you, which is kind of why this is only just now coming to the forefront of my mind!

I remember getting the coin, thinking it was very pretty and looked good. I popped it on the scales, weight was right and thought no more of it.

It's a good luck thing I popped it on YouTube!

But, as you say you just expect everything to be all OK.

I will keep everyone updated over the next week with how it goes with Atkinson's

[h103efa]

Here's an example of one i received when i got married, as well as some fake (real gold) sovs!

 

[BackyardBullion]

1 minute ago, h103efa said:

Here's an example of one i received when i got married, as well as some fake (real gold) sovs!

 

Thanks buddy, very interesting. Did the jeweller say the MOM 22 was an indication of it being a fake coin?

[h103efa]

1 minute ago, BackyardBullion said:

Thanks buddy, very interesting. Did the jeweller say the MOM 22 was an indication of it being a fake coin?

Sorry, i meant the sovs being fake. From what i believe the Saudi guinea is real!

[BackyardBullion]

Just now, h103efa said:

Sorry, i meant the sovs being fake. From what i believe the Saudi guinea is real!

Ah, OK I see.

[h103efa]

Not sure if this helps

https://goldiraguide.org/saudi-arabia-gold-one-guinea-coins/

[h103efa]

6 minutes ago, BackyardBullion said:

Ah, OK I see.

Actually a quick google check of graded guineas, the MOM 22 probably indicates a jewellry re-strike (fake)

https://www.collectors.com/coin/saudi-arabia-gold-guinea-ah-1370-1950-ms-67-ngc/-7059674574195172874

Edited May 31, 2019 by h103efa

[BackyardBullion]

2 minutes ago, h103efa said:

Not sure if this helps

https://goldiraguide.org/saudi-arabia-gold-one-guinea-coins/

I saw this page, no mention of re-strikes or "22" marks

[ilovesilverireallydo]

22 makers are typically jewellery marks in that part of Asia. It’s not worn, that “softened strike” look it has is consistent with a cast coin in my opinion.

Your palm trees have no details. Even worn versions would have some details. 

Here is a BU. Compare the sharpness of the strike, they were well struck coins. 

MOM 22 version also shown see how details are low.

[BackyardBullion]

Just now, ilovesilverireallydo said:

22 makers are typically jewellery marks in that part of Asia. It’s not worn, that “softened strike” look it has is consistent with a cast coin in my opinion.

Your palm trees have no details. Even worn versions would have some details. 

Here is a BU. Compare the sharpness of the strike, they were well struck coins. 

MOM 22 version also shown see how details are low.

 

 

Thanks buddy, I think we can say with 100% confidence this is a re-strike

The good news is that it is gold - I have no doubt of that.

What remains to be seen is how Atkinson's will handle the situation come Monday 😉

[ilovesilverireallydo]

1 minute ago, BackyardBullion said:

Thanks buddy, I think we can say with 100% confidence this is a re-strike

The good news is that it is gold - I have no doubt of that.

What remains to be seen is how Atkinson's will handle the situation come Monday 😉

As a restrike the premium you paid on it is what sets you back sadly. It’s a gorgeous coin. Shame you got a fake, at 260 a genuine one would have been a good buy 

[BackyardBullion]

Just now, ilovesilverireallydo said:

As a restrike the premium you paid on it is what sets you back sadly. It’s a gorgeous coin. Shame you got a fake, at 260 a genuine one would have been a good buy 

I paid £252 for it, the price on the screendump includes the bump in gold prices this week 😉

But that is still a fair premium over spot. 

I would happily keep hold of it if Atkinson's offered a refund on the premium paid.