Selling Silver & Gold as a hobby or a trade - it really matters so take heed!

[BackyardBullion]

Howdy all - this should be a fun and interesting topic, so please feel free to comment/PM me directly if you want!

Quick disclaimer

First off, I want to make it abundantly clear that this thread is not in any way meant as financial/tax advice.

I am in no way telling you what is or is not the law or how it applies to your situation and circumstances. The purpose of this thread is to raise awareness of some of the forgotten or overlooked issues that come with buying and selling Gold & Silver coins on a regular or even semi regular basis. Also, this applies to pretty much everything else you buy and sell, not just coins. 

I would highly recommend that if you are in doubt to contact HMRC directly or seek professional advice on your situation. 

Selling Silver & Gold as a hobby or a trade - it really matters so take heed!

You might ask, whats the problem? Selling some silver and gold is a great way for me to top up my stack budget, it raises my seller profile for when the time comes to sell other things and it is fun at the same time - not to mention that because it is gold and silver I am selling that it is a capital asset, not a trade so I am good to go!?

The answers to the above are Yes's and no's - in short it is very complicated.

So, it is no secret that I have been buying and selling silver and gold for a while now. I started, like many of you out there most likely, buy buying some cheap silver from Europe. My intentions at that time were to buy for £XX.XX price and then when the value of silver has risen to sell for £XX.XX price and make a profit. 

Sounds great - and it was/still is the aim of the game for some of the silver and gold coins that we (Mrs BYB and I) buy.

Most of us are probably drawn to Silver and Gold that are deemed to be Capital Gains Tax (CGT) exempt - Sovereigns, Britannias and the like. Let's say you buy £10,000 worth and in 20 years time it is worth £50,000. No CGT to pay on the profits, happy days!

But, things are not always as simple as they seem. 

It is very easy for your buying and selling to be interpreted as a trade rather than just a capital asset being sold. 

Ever heard of the badges of trade? 

If not, then have a look at this link: https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/business-income-manual/bim20205

In a nutshell they are tests that HMRC will use to decide ultimately whether something is a capital asset being sold, or whether the sale constitutes trading. If the latter is deemed to be applicable, that means you have to pay Income Tax on your profits! All of a sudden your CGT investment could very well turn into just any other income and you may lose out on a significant part of your return. 

I don't really want to go into too much detail on each badge, because they are going to apply differently to each and every person - but it is something to be aware of if you are a regular seller of silver/gold/coins or even anything else.

However here are some key points to take note of:

• Is the intention to make a profit? Yes could indicate trading.....
• How often do you make similar sales? Selling on eBay, Social Media or the forum every few weeks? Sounds like a trade.....
• Did you borrow money to get stock? 
• Transactions are similar to other traders or trades you make? - are there other people doing what you are doing and operating as a business?
• Did you modify or repair the item? Coin grading comes to mind here.....
• How long did you own the item and did you get personal pride from it. If you bought it last week, sold it this week then this is probably a trade as a business. 

But sellers get £1000 profit allowance - so we are all good. 

You may or may not know that everyone has a £1000 tax free allowance for hobby trading/selling. Its the Governments way to encourage people to make a little bit of money on the side. However, this comes with a stark downside if you go over £1000 profit. You will be required to register for self assessment tax reporting (which basically means registering as a sole trader). You then need to declare all profits on your tax form, which you are then taxed on. 

So, be aware that if you are a seller on this forum, eBay or even your own website that if you are making more than £1000 profit in a year and you are (under the badges of trade) trading rather than simply selling some of your assets, then you really need to start thinking about the good old Tax man. 

There are stiff penalties for not declaring such income and you can be back taxed (I believe up to 7 years), charged interest on taxes not paid as well as penalties for late payment/non payment. 

Be careful how much you sell as well -  you might have to register for VAT. 

Recently you may have seen that we (Backyard Bullion enterprises) has had to register for VAT. This is because our Turnover was more than £85,000 in a rolling 12 month period. It does state that all "exempt" items from VAT are excluded in this - which means gold does not count at all on your turnover, in theory. But having spoken to a few accountants their thoughts are that if you are selling £100,000 worth of gold in a year, whilst no VAT should have been collected you may still draw the attention of HMRC for having such high turnover and be asked to account for yourself. 

Who here wants to have that to deal with in their lives.

£85,000 turnover sounds like a lot, believe me in the world of precious metals it is not. You sell 1 oz gold coins, 85 of them at £1000 each and there is your trading turnover threshold right there. 

Becoming VAT registered is a VERY BIG HEADACHE and may cause issues for your own personal silver and gold investments 

So, we in the Backyard Bullion household have had two very separate stacks of silver and gold. We have the business assets, coins we buy specifically to flip in a short time for profit. There is no doubt in my mind that these are trading assets and for the last 2-3 years of doing this they have been included in my books as that, I have declared each and every one down to the copper coins I sell and the £1000 proof coins. They go on my tax form and I pay income tax and NI on the profits. 

But, there is a separate stack of metals which we are holding as (in our minds) capital assets. We intend to sell them well into the future. We are carefully looking at the badges of trade and have to take special precautions in terms of record keeping, purchasing records being especially important. The goal here is that we will be above reproach if we get accused of selling a private asset as a private asset and not as a business asset. 

This is especially important when you are VAT registered and brings some really harsh realities for us. 

For example, Silver Queen's beasts coins - we are going to hold these for a while and at some point we will want to cash those in for a profit on the premiums. If we satisfy the badges of trade for it to be a private asset then great. No VAT needs to be charged, no income tax needs to be paid. But, if our situation changed suddenly and I needed to sell the 20x 2 oz Yales I bought last month then we will likely be deemed to be trading. We will be forced to charge VAT (making them not practical to sell) or sell them for a loss after paying the VAT man what we may owe in their eyes. 

This could be a big issue. 

In summary

This is a long post, I hope you have enjoyed reading to this point. It is very important for a lot of sellers on here to take heed of what I have had to say and to either seek advice of your own or at very least have a look at the situation as it applies to you and ask yourself, should you be registered for self assessment and/or VAT?

Please let me know your thoughts on this very interesting topic!

Backyard Bullion

[mr-dead]

anyway to work in the VAT margin scheme on "collector" silver?

Would the Yales be classified as bullion despite a premium or "collector" coins as they are also part of a set where the margin scheme may apply?

 

Just rambling as I dont know the ins and outs of tax, probably like 99% of the country lol

 

[BackyardBullion]

Just now, mr-dead said:

anyway to work in the VAT margin scheme on "collector" silver?

Would the Yales be classified as bullion despite a premium or "collector" coins wher the margin scheme may apply?

 

Just rambling as I dont know the ins and outs of tax, probably like 99% of the country lol

 

Proving that the coins qualify for the margin scheme is the difficult bit. You have to also have immaculate records and purchase receipts to show that they are indeed second hand. 

There is also convoluted advice on the .GOV website saying that any items you were charged VAT for or are precious metals are not able to be sold under the margin scheme. 

There must be a way around this as we see UK Dealers using this scheme (occasionally). Perhaps it is only occasionally because it is so hard to prove!

Tax man always gets their due!

[mr-dead]

Good article on Chards:

https://www.chards.co.uk/blog/special-scheme-silver/259

 

VAT Margin Scheme on Silver

The British government introduced a VAT margin scheme which taxes the difference between the price that the dealer has paid for the item and what it is then sold for. This can be applied when we sell second-hand silver, medallions and coin sets which are not legal tender.

 

Who said Britannia's + Queens beasts were the way to go lol

[BackyardBullion]

Here are some more thoughts in video form!

 

[Elements]

What’s your interpretation of the rules regarding reporting? I make it out as having to report when reaching £1000 turnover BUT only having to pay when exceeding £1000 profit

Sounds a bit stringent but there it is. Sell a one ounce coin for £1000 even though it was bought for £1000, no gain but still have to report it- no profit, no tax to pay

sell for £2000 same, still have to report, £1000 gain, uses all the allowance. No tax to pay

sell for £2005 have to report, £1005 gain and have to pay income tax on £5

(only applied to a traded coin bought and sold quickly ad you describe)

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/tax-free-allowances-on-property-and-trading-income

the link above refers to gross income from trading is £1000 before becoming reportable but the profitable allowance is still £1000 before any tax is due. Or have I misinterpreted?

[Seasider]

On ‎09‎/‎04‎/‎2019 at 14:09, BackyardBullion said:

But, there is a separate stack of metals which we are holding as (in our minds) capital assets. We intend to sell them well into the future. We are carefully looking at the badges of trade and have to take special precautions in terms of record keeping, purchasing records being especially important. The goal here is that we will be above reproach if we get accused of selling a private asset as a private asset and not as a business asset. 

I suspect you are going to have to be very careful indeed.  If you sell these items while you are still trading coins/metal as "business assets" you are going to have a very hard time convincing the taxman these other coins/metal are not also business assets and sold as part of that trade.  It may be here that some form of incorporation may come in handy - put the business assets into the company and keep the personal ones in your own name.

[Martlet]

6 hours ago, Elements said:

the link above refers to gross income from trading is £1000 before becoming reportable but the profitable allowance is still £1000 before any tax is due. Or have I misinterpreted?

Misinterpreted i think, its gross income not profit or net income for a reason. The allowance is a shelter from reporting small amounts of income not from income tax per se.  The purpose is so HMRC doesn't have to deal with lots of small uneconomic returns, or account for small amounts that aren't reported anyway.  The allowance means you simply dont report the first £1k from trading (and property).

So, assuming you are falling under trade, you sell 1oz gold for £1001 you should declare that and pay income tax on the £1.  

Not trading and it comes under CGT.  I can see how it can get very complex for traders of assets such as BYB to differentiate the two, but this must already be covered by precedents in shares, art, property where some assets are regularly traded while others held longer term.

[Shergar]

Interesting stuff... mr-dead raises a good point about ‘legal tender’ can i throw a spanner in the works? Gold and silver proofs of legal tender, where do they fit in?

[Oldun]

Surely time to get an accountant if you are running a business ?

[Paul]

Forum hearsay, web links and personal opinions is not how you deal with your personal tax affairs

The fee a VERY GOOD professional accountant charges you will ALWAYS be far less than savings he/she's skills gets for you or they ain't doing their job right 

CGT is such a misunderstood thing, i would guess 98% of UK folk here on forum wont EVER have to have any worry of it, ever, it is based on the profits you make, between what you buy and what you sell at.  Buy at £19 sell at £20 - £1 is your CGT 

Making a £1 profit, you have an allowance of £12k next year to use.  Whoever is sat on 12,000oz (aka nearly £240,000 of silver @ £20oz) they HAVE to sell at a +£1 profit is lacking vision how to liquidate their stack. CGT is based across all investments of course, stocks, shares, interest, dividends, profits etc

wife/spouse CGT yearly allowances (sell x12000 oz this year and x12,000 next year) 'colourful gifts" to family/friends, buried/hidden booty for years to come, left in safe deposit for your estate when you're gone, anon paypal/ebay accounts (aspkins.com) to get rid via ebay in various countries, cash for gold buyers, local auctioneers, forum swaps from silver to gold, facebook collectors groups, personal meets, coin fair over counter dealer sales, gumtree/spock/local FB groups = face to face sales, USA travel to dispose at pawn shops, ID not required selling small amounts per deal in UK to name but just a few things

Let your creative mind run riot.....................

 

[sixgun]

i use the £1000 turnover allowance and as soon as £1000 is hit i flip it over to another entity. This is a legal allowance for each person. You could use parents, in-laws, the wife, sibs if you can trust them and they aren't using their £1000.

If you create a limited company it would make it easier to separate your business from hobbyist activities. Your business is hand poured silver. Stick to that. If it is not hand poured silver it is not BYB Limited activities. You and wife have your  personal CGT allowances. There is UK coinage with no CGT liabilities. This could be applied to hobbyist activities.

The thing is i get the impression you do not have a lot of experience of this sort of thing, it scares you and you would rather pay a bit too much tax and sleep easy at night. i do think you can split hobby activities from business with a limited company (which is not a big deal - honest). i had a PAYE job and 'private' work. i used to push the private work through a company - i slashed my tax and i set up the company before i really needed to. My accountant never suggested the various schemes i ran but would put them on the form and we ended up cutting the bill significantly. You need to think ahead. i have never been scared of the tax people and see it as a game and my duty to pay as little tax as possible.

i think you are getting unnecessarily worried - you need an accountant if you aren't conversant with the tax system but you also need to read around this stuff b/c i have found accounts are generally not very inventive and i like being inventive. Being inventive saved me £10's thousands.

[BackyardBullion]

6 hours ago, sixgun said:

i use the £1000 turnover allowance and as soon as £1000 is hit i flip it over to another entity. This is a legal allowance for each person. You could use parents, in-laws, the wife, sibs if you can trust them and they aren't using their £1000.

If you create a limited company it would make it easier to separate your business from hobbyist activities. Your business is hand poured silver. Stick to that. If it is not hand poured silver it is not BYB Limited activities. You and wife have your  personal CGT allowances. There is UK coinage with no CGT liabilities. This could be applied to hobbyist activities.

The thing is i get the impression you do not have a lot of experience of this sort of thing, it scares you and you would rather pay a bit too much tax and sleep easy at night. i do think you can split hobby activities from business with a limited company (which is not a big deal - honest). i had a PAYE job and 'private' work. i used to push the private work through a company - i slashed my tax and i set up the company before i really needed to. My accountant never suggested the various schemes i ran but would put them on the form and we ended up cutting the bill significantly. You need to think ahead. i have never been scared of the tax people and see it as a game and my duty to pay as little tax as possible.

i think you are getting unnecessarily worried - you need an accountant if you aren't conversant with the tax system but you also need to read around this stuff b/c i have found accounts are generally not very inventive and i like being inventive. Being inventive saved me £10's thousands.

@sixgun Flipping over to different entities for trading allowances, parents, in-laws, the wife etc. sounds like blatant tax evasion (the illegal one) rather than tax avoidance. 

Lets be honest here, your parents, in-laws, the wife etc. are they going to do the sales listings, the shipping and record keeping? 

Yes we could set up a Ltd company and this is easy. But we don't want to set up a Ltd company. That comes with significant privacy issues and a hell of a lot more administrative burden. 

I would just like to re-iterate the point here that if you are selling something (even CGT exempt coinage) AS A TRADE as determined by HMRC then you will need to a) register for self assessment if you are a sole trader and/or b) if you hit £85,000 turnover register for VAT. 

The setting up of multiple entities and using of other peoples allowances or even getting your partner to "act" as a sole trader is just asking for trouble. We could very easily have set up "Mrs BYB" as a sole trader selling hand poured silver my business "sold" her. But lets be honest here, HMRC would simply look at this as evasion and rightly so. 

There is a fine line between avoidance (legal) and evasion (Illegal) and there are a lot of suggestions coming on this and the other thread I started that fall very much into the evasion category. 

[vand]

Another reason why it's a good idea to diversify your PM exposure and hold some via ETF inside a tax shielded wrapper.

[Pipers]

This all sounds a bit to much here BYB. 

If you buy items for the long term as part of your collection then you are not trading those items.  Keep receipts if you want, it would make sense that a gold silver coin dealer would have a collection of coins anyway , it just makes sense the same way a lot of garage owners have vintage or sport car collections.  

This £1000 allowance is for trading and not for dispersing or part dispersing or altering of a collection.  If someone buys 10-100 2019 sovereigns then sells them in 6 months at a £10 profit or loss it is trading.  If someone buys 2 2019 sovereigns in 6 months keeps the best one sells the other, not bothered that he lost £30 or gains £10 as his motive was his collection.  Plus another opportunity to buy let say a Vic sovereign has appeared which the collector has been searching for a long time has come up.

HMRC also make it clear that a seller who sells via buy it now is a trader.  BYB  you are a trader you are allowed to have a collection of coins, why are you so worried if you are that worried you should go to an accountant if you cannot afford one the CAB will give you 45min for free though thats usually for people who are in debt.  In your position i would pay for 1 hour advise with a specialist.  

             

[BackyardBullion]

9 minutes ago, Pipers said:

This all sounds a bit to much here BYB. 

If you buy items for the long term as part of your collection then you are not trading those items.  Keep receipts if you want, it would make sense that a gold silver coin dealer would have a collection of coins anyway , it just makes sense the same way a lot of garage owners have vintage or sport car collections.  

This £1000 allowance is for trading and not for dispersing or part dispersing or altering of a collection.  If someone buys 10-100 2019 sovereigns then sells them in 6 months at a £10 profit or loss it is trading.  If someone buys 2 2019 sovereigns in 6 months keeps the best one sells the other, not bothered that he lost £30 or gains £10 as his motive was his collection.  Plus another opportunity to buy let say a Vic sovereign has appeared which the collector has been searching for a long time has come up.

HMRC also make it clear that a seller who sells via buy it now is a trader.  BYB  you are a trader you are allowed to have a collection of coins, why are you so worried if you are that worried you should go to an accountant if you cannot afford one the CAB will give you 45min for free though thats usually for people who are in debt.  In your position i would pay for 1 hour advise with a specialist.  

             

Thanks for the comment @Pipers

The purpose of this thread was in essence to raise awareness for people who might just think they are selling coins that are CGT exempt and therefore just a capital. 

I am quite familiar with all of the steps that need to be taken to make sure that my own individual collections and investments are kept separate so if and when the times comes to sell I have all the evidence I need to be able to defend myself if needed. 

The £1000 allowance is indeed for trading. But it is all about interpretation from the tax man. You may well have a collection and would be altering it, but if at the same time you have been selling coins on the side and HMRC cannot easily distinguish between them they may well end up challenging you. 

How many people here want to be taken to court over something like this? I know I don't - but in the eventuality that that happens we (Mrs BYB and I) have all our ducks in a row. But I still have a right to be worried because of the ridiculous system we live in, I can do all the right things, take all the right precautions and record keeping and still be challenged to defend myself by someone (and an agency) that has no idea about my own personal situation. That is what worries me so much. You could do everything right but end up in court regardless!

We have been talking with professionals already about this and I would highly recommend this to anyone out there who is thinking about this situation as it relates to themselves (the entire purpose of this thread!)

 

[sixgun]

6 hours ago, BackyardBullion said:

@sixgun Flipping over to different entities for trading allowances, parents, in-laws, the wife etc. sounds like blatant tax evasion (the illegal one) rather than tax avoidance.

Whose name is the account in? Who is receiving payment? - For ever people have used the tax allowances of children, relatives and spouses - no issues as i can see it. None whatsoever.

i have had several limited companies and i have never found there to be more administrative burden - i have found they create a world of extra schemes to reduce tax.

You are going to do what you feel comfortable with. i am not going to post here about tax evasion.

Is collecting a few coins and buying and selling them between other collectors a trade - this is what members do here - we know those who are running a business - that is dictated by the amount they sell here. i won't mention them but it is clear who is and then there are a number of borderline cases. i have a rough idea of the number of coins you have put up here and you appear a hobbyist. Your bars are however a business.

There is no proper definition of a trade as you know - so we have case law

1. profit-seeking motive; - are you just releasing funds to get other coins - i have too many for my needs and i want to release funds. i have not seen you selling large numbers of coins so not much of a trade is it? We could compare with others here who are selling £1000's a month in coins.

2. the number of transactions; - never counted the number of postings of coins you have made but never seemed to be a lot.

3. the nature of the asset; -  coins v bars you made yourself

4. existence of similar trading transactions or interests; coins v bars manufacture

5. changes to the asset; coins are unmodified - bars are being manufactured and customised

6. the way the sale was carried out; sold under BYB trademark and banner v sold as a private individual - should think about getting another account here -

7. the source of finance; - Ltd money and personal money - different entities - different money.

8. interval of time between purchase and sale; and - so hold onto items for 6 months and then sell

9. method of acquisition. - bar silver is bought and bars manufactured - coins are private sales - from dealers - blah blah.

 

Discussing this does not make something tax evasion - 

[Goldhooked]

2 hours ago, Pipers said:

HMRC also make it clear that a seller who sells via buy it now is a trader.

             

Are you referring to eBay Buy It Now?  If so, do you have a link to a relevant HMRC page?  I’ve not heard of this before.

[BackyardBullion]

19 minutes ago, sixgun said:

Whose name is the account in? Who is receiving payment? - For ever people have used the tax allowances of children, relatives and spouses - no issues as i can see it. None whatsoever.

i have had several limited companies and i have never found there to be more administrative burden - i have found they create a world of extra schemes to reduce tax.

You are going to do what you feel comfortable with. i am not going to post here about tax evasion.

Is collecting a few coins and buying and selling them between other collectors a trade - this is what members do here - we know those who are running a business - that is dictated by the amount they sell here. i won't mention them but it is clear who is and then there are a number of borderline cases. i have a rough idea of the number of coins you have put up here and you appear a hobbyist. Your bars are however a business.

There is no proper definition of a trade as you know - so we have case law

1. profit-seeking motive; - are you just releasing funds to get other coins - i have too many for my needs and i want to release funds. i have not seen you selling large numbers of coins so not much of a trade is it? We could compare with others here who are selling £1000's a month in coins.

2. the number of transactions; - never counted the number of postings of coins you have made but never seemed to be a lot.

3. the nature of the asset; -  coins v bars you made yourself

4. existence of similar trading transactions or interests; coins v bars manufacture

5. changes to the asset; coins are unmodified - bars are being manufactured and customised

6. the way the sale was carried out; sold under BYB trademark and banner v sold as a private individual - should think about getting another account here -

7. the source of finance; - Ltd money and personal money - different entities - different money.

8. interval of time between purchase and sale; and - so hold onto items for 6 months and then sell

9. method of acquisition. - bar silver is bought and bars manufactured - coins are private sales - from dealers - blah blah.

 

Discussing this does not make something tax evasion - 

Thanks for the follow up

I agree, talking about these things does not make them evasion.

But there would be a pretty strong case for it if someone used 10 different family members £1000 trading allowance to sell coins blatantly as  trade. 

At the end of the day the powers that be are the ones that impose their judgement and ask you to defend yourself in court.

That is the true crime here!

[sixgun]

3 minutes ago, BackyardBullion said:

But there would be a pretty strong case for it if someone used 10 different family members £1000 trading allowance to sell coins blatantly as  trade. 

At the end of the day the powers that be are the ones that impose their judgement and ask you to defend yourself in court.

That is the true crime here!

But it isn't a trade - it is 10 separate individuals selling bits and pieces which none of them even declare - HMRC says don't bother us with this.

i am not sure what the total of your coin sales come to - if you carry on selling on your website and under the BYB account on the silver forum then it is your trade - no argument about that. My first limited company i set up years before i needed to - i think it might have cost me more than it was worth but as it unfolded and as i expected i saved a lot of money. 

i am not saying anymore now - if i were the tax man i would say the coins are part of your business - nothing has been done to separate these off. You clearly want to pay tax and charge VAT on the coins you sell and as the tax man i will help you every step of the way.

[Pipers]

Hard selling on Ebay is trading, if you alter your collection what ever it is or even sell part of it is not trading.  If HMRC went after hobbyist and collectors then a large part of the UK economy would stall.  Can you imagine it when all collectors get a bill in May for there hobby activities because they sold their old fishing gear to buy new equipment. Or a sewer sells her old over locker and sewing machine to buy new ones, its just stupid.  .  I can tell you now the next few years the UK economy would tank, also MPs would be contacted by very angry voters.  Plus can you imagine the waste, people would start to take their items down the tip because they couldn't be bothered with the form filling or they are frightened of the Taxman.  Also if you have been a keen artist, then given up on that hobby after a few years so you sell your equipment you are not trading

Just remember badges of honer keep receipts.  It is true some peoples hobby is making money in that case hard luck.     

[TopHatsTales]

BYB, you mention privacy and I can't argue with that.

Not sure if I understand what concerns you about a limited company and privacy. 

Your name will be known, but have the correspondence and registered office somewhere other than your home, maybe your accountants, for a nominal fee. Your home address is not on the public register that way.

You could have nominee directors and not even have your name against it. That'll cost more, but is an option.

It doesn't have to say Mr and Mrs BYB, BYB house, BYB street, town, postcode etc.

If that is your concern? 

Much respect for all you do and enjoying the YouTube channel! 

[BackyardBullion]

6 minutes ago, TopHatsTales said:

BYB, you mention privacy and I can't argue with that.

Not sure if I understand what concerns you about a limited company and privacy. 

Your name will be known, but have the correspondence and registered office somewhere other than your home, maybe your accountants, for a nominal fee. Your home address is not on the public register that way.

You could have nominee directors and not even have your name against it. That'll cost more, but is an option.

It doesn't have to say Mr and Mrs BYB, BYB house, BYB street, town, postcode etc.

If that is your concern? 

Much respect for all you do and enjoying the YouTube channel! 

There is the public accounts each year too. I am old fashioned about my privacy.

That and the admin of a ltd company are arduous

[TopHatsTales]

But they do not really give much away.

Check what type of accounts need filing based on your criteria and expected growth. Hope you'll be suprised just how little information is published.

Certainly wont be clear how much money you 'actually made'.

I understand your views, but wonder if you are dismissing it, without all the facts.

I look at company accounts on companies house, knowing what the situation is at that company. What's on paper is often magnitudes better or worse than reality.

[BackyardBullion]

Just now, TopHatsTales said:

But they do not really give much away.

Check what type of accounts need filing based on your criteria and expected growth. Hope you'll be suprised just how little information is published.

Certainly wont be clear how much money you 'actually made'.

I understand your views, but wonder if you are dismissing it, without all the facts.

I look at company accounts on companies house, knowing what the situation is at that company. What's on paper is often magnitudes better or worse than reality.

I know all the facts quite well. I have a number of friends that run their own Ltd companies and whilst there are admitidly a lot of benefits there are also a lot of negatives that don't suit out situation. So at this time we would prefer to keep things as a sole trader arrangement - not ruling out a Ltd company one day, but for right now we are good. 

Thanks for the suggestions and info though!