Selling precious metals through eBay/PayPal

[Paul]

I have been buying silver & gold for several years now, and although I no intentions of selling any of my precious metals any time soon there may be a time when I need to

eBay & through the forum would probably be my chosen route of sale if i wanted to exit my precious metals collecting

 

For those who have sold via eBay/PayPal 

 

I would like to ask you :

 

• Have you ever had charge backs or problem buyers selling precious metals on eBay/PayPal in the past?

(As eBay does not allow seller to leave negative feedback now you cannot see if they have been scammed/charged back or not)

 

• Have you ever had payments made with copied or cloned cards (ie charge backs made after you have sent the goods)?
• Is gold more susceptible to fraud/charge backs?
• Are the vast majority of transactions for precious metals through PayPal safe and secure?
• Is it better to try and push buyers for payment via direct bank transfer?

 

I am probably being overly cautious but i have got stung with a couple of PayPal charge backs in the past 10+ years online and have been very weary since for selling valuable items these days through eBay using PayPal

 

If you could spare any words of wisdom from your experience it would be greatly appreciated.

as im sure these sort of queries are going through people minds

[Agpanda]

You can always demand that the buyer have atleast +100 feedbacks, or a number you feel confidant with.

I have seen this more and more this days.

[Danny-boy]

I have bought and sold on eBay since 2001.

I have only ever had one problem where a £10 coin was fake, and I got refunded immediately.

Never once had a problem selling.

[Keithoil]

I have had a few T$&*s try and rip me off but have got my money back.

 

That said I did have 3k taken from my bank account, and I believe it was when eBay was compromised and they got my card details that I used at the time.

 

I did get all my money back from the bank no questions.

 

I now use a credit card as my paypal source.

 

And I don't think you will need to worry to much as in 10-20 years time when silver is £89.77 / oz, just take it to a jewellers or the like for a price, obviously with a big daft grin on your face, I will.

[BaldyBob]

Have sold and bought a lot over e-bay.

 

Paypal is secure, which is why it is so expensive. However, it is weighed heavily in favour of the buyer, and you should never send anything at less than Royal mail 'Special Delivery'.

They will only accept 'signed for' items as proof of delivery, even recorded delivery isn't good enough.

If some chancer says it never arrived, and you don't have a signature to prove it, they will keep the item and the money.

 

Spec. delivery is about £8, so if you are selling a roll at a time, it is not a problem.

[BaldyBob]

Note.........with ebay, you have to allow paypal as form of payment. No excuses. Basically the same company.

[Paul]

thanks bob,keith,danny,boss

 

I have a fair bit of experience selling and buying via eBay.  I have only ever bought precious metals through eBay, never sold

 

I was just curious as to whether the level of fraud or dodgy buyers was higher in the gold/silver than other product category.  I know scams and rip offs are rife in the like of in demand tech (mobiles/ipads etc).

I have had maybe one/two charge backs in 2000+ transactions with dealing with music memorabilia collectors but when i came to sell an iPhone 2.5 years back i got scammed over for it. Lost the cash in PayPal and the phone.  

 

It was just that the 'liquid' nature of how easy it is for someone to sell a gold coin to a jeweler or cash for gold place

whether eBay had a high degree of fraud related to sale or gold/silver.

 

eBay/PayPal is more or less 95% will always side with the buyer of the item

[morezone]

I'll put it into perspective. I've had more chargebacks and claims for none receipt through Ebay for precious metals than my main business outside of Ebay which does 50 times more volume.

[Paul]

...hhhhmmmmm......my initial fears confirmed

[HighlandTiger]

Some of the things discussed here are part of the reason I've reassessed my Silver v Gold stacking regime. When it comes to selling my stack I want something quick, easy and simple. Something that I'm afraid is not for sellers on Ebay.

 

You only need to get ripped off on one roll of silver coins or a single gold coin, and that could be your yearly profit wiped away in a heart beat. Scary thought. and I'm someone who has bought and sold thousands of items on ebay since it started. (I was selling on ebay in early 1997) It's a different kettle of fish to what it was in the early days. When you waited for postal orders to arrive and cheques to clear BEFORE you sent the items off. Never got ripped off in those days  

[Paul]

@HT  

your response above were my initial feelings I had lurking in the back of my mind and bubbling in away for a couple of years now.

My move into silver was the hopeful massive upside, but as the past 4 years have shown the following

it is a rollercoaster ride to say the least

we buy at a higher premium relative to gold when you factor in dealers spread %, VAT (if not using STG), delivery costs

the exit strategy to get the best possible price (via eBay/PayPal) has high costs associated with sale price

there are clear and proven potential risks using eBay to exit

 

With these in mind & in tandem with the other current thread about moving from silver into gold make it is certainly making me think twice about my silver position 

 

Example:

Just say Joe Bloggs has an emergency he needs £2000 for an unexpected major repair on his van he needs for his job

 

As a Silver Stacker he has : x100 britannias (easy eBay seller) that he has paid £20 per coin for 

 

As a Gold Stacker he has : x3 1oz gold britannias that he has paid £800 per coin for

 

It is a lot easier for me pop into town, my biggest shop i know pays always pays 98% for any bullion coin

 

So spot today for gold is  £772.97  & silver £10.78

 

Those three gold britannias could get £757.51 x 3 = £2272.53 cash in my hand within an hour

The same exit stratergy via a dealer for silver coins £10.56 x100 = £1056.44  (£943 short fall for his reapir

 

More could be raised via the eBay route but do you sell them

x100 lots of single coins (how many would be claimed as none rec'd)

x10 lots of x10oz

a single listing for x100 coins

How much would you pay in fees & commissions on all of the above

How much would it cost for x100 lots of packing

How much time would it take for x100 orders (if you put a price on your time of £10 per hour processing orders it is a lot of lost cash/time)

 

is it really worth these hassles time and risks by investing in silver?

 

I am beginning to fear that unless silver goes to where we would all like it 50-£75 per oz we are going to be hard pushed to do anything better than breaking even or a little bit profit

 

With that said as price of silver always goes in tandem with the price of gold if silver did make it £50oz gold would also be positively priced

Ratio 1:15 = gold £750oz

Ratio 1:30 = gold £1500oz

Ratio 1:50 = gold £2500oz

Current ratio today 1:71 = gold £3550oz

 

........hhmmmmm ....what to do?.... what to do?

[HighlandTiger]

@HT  

your response above were my initial feelings I had lurking in the back of my mind and bubbling in away for a couple of years now.

My move into silver was the hopeful massive upside, but as the past 4 years have shown the following

it is a rollercoaster ride to say the least

we buy at a higher premium relative to gold when you factor in dealers spread %, VAT (if not using STG), delivery costs

the exit strategy to get the best possible price (via eBay/PayPal) has high costs associated with sale price

there are clear and proven potential risks using eBay to exit

 

With these in mind & in tandem with the other current thread about moving from silver into gold make it is certainly making me think twice about my silver position 

 

Example:

Just say Joe Bloggs has an emergency he needs £2000 for an unexpected major repair on his van he needs for his job

 

As a Silver Stacker he has : x100 britannias (easy eBay seller) that he has paid £20 per coin for 

 

As a Gold Stacker he has : x3 1oz gold britannias that he has paid £800 per coin for

 

It is a lot easier for me pop into town, my biggest shop i know pays always pays 98% for any bullion coin

 

So spot today for gold is  £772.97  & silver £10.78

 

Those three gold britannias could get £757.51 x 3 = £2272.53 cash in my hand within an hour

The same exit stratergy via a dealer for silver coins £10.56 x100 = £1056.44  (£943 short fall for his reapir

 

More could be raised via the eBay route but do you sell them

x100 lots of single coins (how many would be claimed as none rec'd)

x10 lots of x10oz

a single listing for x100 coins

How much would you pay in fees & commissions on all of the above

How much would it cost for x100 lots of packing

How much time would it take for x100 orders (if you put a price on your time of £10 per hour processing orders it is a lot of lost cash/time)

 

is it really worth these hassles time and risks by investing in silver?

 

I am beginning to fear that unless silver goes to where we would all like it 50-£75 per oz we are going to be hard pushed to do anything better than breaking even or a little bit profit

 

With that said as price of silver always goes in tandem with the price of gold if silver did make it £50oz gold would also be positively priced

Ratio 1:15 = gold £750oz

Ratio 1:30 = gold £1500oz

Ratio 1:50 = gold £2500oz

Current ratio today 1:71 = gold £3550oz

 

........hhmmmmm ....what to do?.... what to do?

 

Your post above has just wiped out any minute lingering doubt about whether I'm doing the right thing. I now know, for me at least, gold is the way to go. Although, and it's a big although, I may dabble in allocated silver through someone like Bullion Vault. (Thanks for the heads up silversword), which has low cost silver and a relatively easy exit route. If I do, it won't be much as I'm not a great fan of not being able to hold what you have bought, but I may have a little interest there

 

 

As for what to do Paul, well only you can make that decision, but I say leave the dark side of precious metals that is silver, my young padawan, and come into the light side that is gold. 

[BaldyBob]

I can't fault your arguments, but personally I still want a  personal stack close at hand. When my level is reached, then probably gold only.

 

If I have to sell in tubes on eBay at a later date, it will mean the scenario's I envisage have not occurred. A small price to pay for having a safety net.

[morezone]

This is how I look at it.

 

The cheapest silver bullion excluding "special offers" are maples at around 20% over spot ex delivery.  Gold is around 3% over spot ex delivery.

Lets say you hold 2000 ounces of silver worth £26k or 33 ounces of gold.  I don't know about anyone else but it's very hard to securely hold 4 monster boxes in a safe location.  Gold on the other hand can be hidden so easily if you didn't want to hold it in a safe.  You could hollow out the top of an internal door, remove a skirting board (the options for less than 2 small tubes is endless).

On exit, you need silver to outperform gold by nearly 20% for the same return.

If you need quick cash you need a 20% increase to break even.  On the gold just 3%.

 

Let's also add that many people buy a variety of bullion so the average price paid is more closer to £14-£15.  Even if you purchased a variety of gold, you'd still be around 5-6% in most cases.  % now increase accordingly and is even more unattractive for silver.

 

If you disposed of the silver privately/eBay then you would get a better return than just to a dealer.  But 2000 ounces is hard work.

[SilverPirate]

My son sold a half sovereign this week for £120 including postage,sent recorded delivery,got good feedback from it.I was concerned but all went well,not every buyer on the bay is a rouge.He offered it to me first but i just didn't have the money have not bought since the spring.If this is the norm for selling i would be very tempted to sell up.He turned down over a dozen offers first .

I think i might try and sell the odd ounce of silver for my average plus shipping and costs as an experiment and just leave it on till it goes as an experiment for the end game.Just to see what happens.If it works would be tempted to sell all and buy back from Germany in one order.

[HelpingHands]

How would you cope being in non-pm limbo between the last sale and the new order?

 

If we knew this was the bottom there would be a strong case for selling all semi numis stacked and loading up on 10oz koalas.

[morezone]

Most transactions are legitimate but you do get scammers who try it on. As long as comply with the criteria set out for "seller protection", you'll generally be fine.

One thing of concern is the number of people sending high value goods via signed-for/recorded. It is a cheap service but remember that it's only insured to the value of 100 1st class stamps. Although you get proof of posting, you don't always get a proof of delivery. For almost 10 years I never signed for a single recorded/sign-for item. I do now but just the other week I received a parcel which was just handed to me without a need for a signature.

[HighlandTiger]

Most transactions are legitimate but you do get scammers who try it on. As long as comply with the criteria set out for "seller protection", you'll generally be fine.

One thing of concern is the number of people sending high value goods via signed-for/recorded. It is a cheap service but remember that it's only insured to the value of 100 1st class stamps. Although you get proof of posting, you don't always get a proof of delivery. For almost 10 years I never signed for a single recorded/sign-for item. I do now but just the other week I received a parcel which was just handed to me without a need for a signature.

 

It's not just recorded delivery items either. In the last week I have recieved two packages sent by Special Delivery in those silver envelopes, including one from HGM, and neither were signed for......

[morezone]

It's not just recorded delivery items either. In the last week I have recieved two packages sent by Special Delivery in those silver envelopes, including one from HGM, and neither were signed for......

I've never had that before but you/sender can claim back the postage because a signature is part of the guarantee.

[jazzman]

Hi everyone, lots of good points above in my opinion. All that has been said about silver is true, i do not think there is anything wrong with silver stacking but i do not think it is a good strategy for emergency fund savings, i too prefer gold for most of the reasons  stated above, for me gold is my alternative to putting cash in a tin with the added advantage that i cannot just borrow £20 here and there as has happened when i have tried to stash cash in the past, it's horses for courses i guess, it is all down to your reasons for stacking, but one things for sure it beats spending the money on beer and fags, all of which i have done in the past. Only wish i had started stacking when i was younger but there you go, c'est la vie.

[HelpingHands]

I have a couple of sealed Perth rolls I'm thinking about selling. One in particular seems to go for a very good price for US eBay sellers.

My account is set to no international buyers and I always deselect the global shipping thingy as I'd mostly prefer to sell within the UK. Now here's the question, if I select the global shipping and keep my account to non international does that mean potential buyers in other countries still won't be able to see my listing in searches?

[SilverPirate]

I am not sure,i am selling a few bits of silver on the bay at the moment and i have ticked the no international box.I just like the idea of selling within the U.K. only.

Sales are very slow and i am having to sell below my average to shift them.(i don't have to sell, it is an experiment).With e-bay fee's and paypal fee's the bay is a world of pain for me at the moment.But i am doing something else that covers it, so i will be OK,All will be revealed at a later date.

Selling through the forum is so much better no fee's and i feel comfortable because it is people i "know" ...sort of.

I have been posting 2nd signed for which has been £1.84 and special delivery which has been £7.25. I have used recycled packaging to keep the cost down.If you have to buy packaging as well mmmm this will cut into your profit bad.

Touch wood so far so good, i hope i have not tempted fate now.

My tip is The forum is better ,only postal charges.and save all your padded envelopes and bubble wrap.any sellotape going free have it and stack it in a big box for your exit strategy,this will make margins a lot better.

Don't forget to put your return address on the back of the letter,keep the parcel as flat as possible to fit through that bloody plastic thing they poke it through at the post office, and as light as possible. no excess paper or card keep it trimmed down but protected.

 

Edit keep the address well over to the left as they put two big stamps  on the 2nd recorded packet,but they can fold them over the edge if need be.

[HelpingHands]

There's a fee calculator here so you can work out what you will be charged in advance.

http://ecal.altervista.org/en/fee_calculator/ebay.co.uk/

International and the global shipping system are two different things. The latter being that you send to a UK depot and then they ship it on. I make sure neither are an option on my listings as there seems to be some horror stories on the eBay forums.

[HelpingHands]

If I had to guess what SP was up to I'd guess that he's working towards a 1oz gold purchase.

[SilverPirate]

If I had to guess what SP was up to I'd guess that he's working towards a 1oz gold purchase.

Keep it ninja.