Maria Theresien Taler

[KevinFlynn]

Photos here and here.

The ones I got are basically overpriced commemorative pieces, restrikes sold by the Austrian Mint in paper folders.

I once had one of these coins that I fished out of a small stamp and coin shop somewhere nowhere. I researched it and liked the history behind this coin. I cannot decide if I would consider this a coin or a medal. The original was legal tender, even though there is no currency stamped on.

So I got these at an insane price at a premium of more than 100%, I'm guilty 😏 but I needed a quick fix...

Historical pieces can be bought much cheaper, depending on grading, and can be gotten in bulk (I'm pretty sure that even restrikes can be found cheaper).

[Big23]

You can buy them here for under 13€ per piece for the BU restrike and 25€ for the proof restrike, delivery only 5€ within Germany and a 100% company of the Austrian Mint. Cheapest I found so far...

[Big23]

@KevinFlynn Why so sad, it's a good price

[spanit]

9 hours ago, Big23 said:

You can buy them here for under 13€ per piece for the BU restrike and 25€ for the proof restrike, delivery only 5€ within Germany and a 100% company of the Austrian Mint. Cheapest I found so far...

Which dealer ?  Do they still sell the restrike BU coins in a roll ?

[KevinFlynn]

They come in rolls?

I discovered this (albeit german) shop who gives them out in sacks from the mint 😀

When you buy 200 of them - a small 'master sack'? Could get me into trouble...

[Big23]

5 hours ago, spanit said:

Which dealer ?  Do they still sell the restrike BU coins in a roll ?

Ah lol, forgot the link

http://www.smh.net

I don't think they come in rolls but I never bought that many at once

[Marko]

The cheapest I have come across in the UK is at weight on coins where 10 restrikes versions cost £139.95 +shipping https://weightoncoin.co.uk/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&search_in_description=1&zenid=kvgnvfn5eg017j7so4koru97f4&keyword=Theresa

Do you have any contacts for shops selling Theresia Talers between 1741 and 1779 in Austria or Germany @KevinFlynn I have followed the well known dealers, MA shops and of course the main auction houses, but it is sometimes difficult to source the smaller less known dealers. The link you gave @Big23 actually has a nice 1742 Madonna Taler and I hadn’t heard of that shop. Many thanks and all the best for Christmas

[Big23]

The small shops here in Vienna are normally pretty expensive with bullion and with numismatics 😕

And the larger ones deal with bullion and 'half numismatics'. Only SMH, which is owned by the Austrian Mint, has a little bit more to offer

[Marko]

Thanks for your reply @Big23 it is quite difficult to find smaller dealers, and the premiums for these numismatics can be crazy, many over €2000 at auction. There is a numismatist in Vienna who has written many articles on these Talers (Ian Fenn), but it is difficult to get contact details for him. I will keep searching, I guess that is part of the fun 😬

[Big23]

1 hour ago, Marko said:

Ian Fenn

To be honest I don't know him or much about Thalers. I'm not into numismatics that much...

[KevinFlynn]

I am not a collector of numismatic Thalers as well.

Here you can find some german stores that sell Maria Theresien Taler (klick the >> zum Anbieter buttons).

I do not know if any of them offers specific years, though.

[Marko]

Thank you for your help @KevinFlynn there are not many collectors, that I know of in the UK, who look for these specific coins. Every bit of help is appreciated

[KevinFlynn]

Personally, I am missing the fact that we do not have 'constitutional silver' in circulation over here. I envy the US in that. We have commemorative Euro and Deutsche Mark coins, and the last silver coin in circulation was the five Deutsche Mark from the 50s to 70s. Before that we had an assortement of pre World War II Mark coins (Drittes Reich, Weimarer Republik, Kaiserreich).

(I'll come to Maria Theresien Taler shortly...)

All in all, only numismatic pieces and used pieces in bulk. Everything bought directly. No joy...

When I stumbled over Maria Theresien Taler, I finally found a coin that caught my inspiration that could fill the 'junk silver' niche (no offense intended). It also fullills what I call the 'german triangle' Germany, Austria, Switzerland nicely, together with my two other favourites, Vreneli and 20 Mark Kaiserreich.

That is why my personal interest in Maria Theresien Taler is mainly in bulk. I can see myself buying 4.6 kg (fine) in a sack one day.

I would however not be opposed to a single historical showpiece, if it was relatively priced. Anything you could recommend?

[Marko]

@KevinFlynn I started collecting these Talers to help fill a pirates chest for my children, cheap enough re strikes, and usually 833 silver. I then found this web site http://www.theresia.name/en/  After reading it, I purchased a few books and unfortunately got hooked on the history behind the coins.

Possibly the best place to buy a one off “older and original” coin is by registering on one of the auction tracking sites. I use numisbids https://www.numisbids.com/ where you can search upcoming auctions throughout Europe for coins of your choice, place bids to your limits, and hopefully win the coins for your collection. A different world to stacking bullion, and a lot more expensive, but set your limit and don’t be tempted to go higher.

There is a UK seller currently on eBay with three older coins for auction, check him out, a good genuine seller, but the bids may take it over the price you want to pay

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUSTRIA-MARIA-THERESA-THALER-1771-I-C-S-K-VIENNA-MINT-SILVER-COIN-VF/362506843583?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

Even higher in price you can buy from MA shops https://www.ma-shops.com/?lang=en but prices here can be crazy

Let me know how you get on, and if need be, send me a PM with an idea of what you want to spend, and I will forward on any deals I come across within your budget

I hope this helps a bit, not only with Talers but also with Deutsche Marks etc

[KevinFlynn]

Thanks for the advice, I will have a look around.

Any chance of a picture of a filled pirate chest for us? 😉

I am getting a lot inspiration from this picture, as well as the story behind it, on how they transported the vast number of coins needed for trade.

[Marko]

I am working on 3 chests, they have coins, silver items, original flintlock pistol, spyglass, gemstones etc. This is an older photo in the early stages but you can’t see too much of the contents, some silver, a 6oz skeleton hand and the occasional jewel. Fun but time consuming and potentially expensive 🤨

[KevinFlynn]

This looks massively satisfying - you did not plunder a Terminator replica for that hand? 😉

I especially like the silverware, but I think this could justify a whole new thread: 'How to inspire a new generation of stackers'

 

I always wanted to buy an egyptian sarcophagus for my attic to put it innocently behind some boxes...

[silenceissilver]

On holiday and seen a Maria Theresien Taler for 220 Euros in a little numismatic shop. Somehow tempted to buy it but I don't know much about these coins, so I'm worried it might be overpriced. They also have other Talers from somewhere in Germany for e.g. 60. Any advice in what to look out for at this MT Taler?

[MickD]

Probably one of the most common bullion coins worldwide, think they are still being produced today with a standard date (1780), if it's just the bullion one, it's worth about £12-£14.  I think the rarer Thalers are also heavily reproduced/copied.

[silenceissilver]

5 minutes ago, MickD said:

Probably one of the most common bullion coins worldwide, think they are still being produced today with a standard date (1780), if it's just the bullion one, it's worth about £12-£14.  I think the rarer Thalers are also heavily reproduced/copied.

I didn't have a close look yet but I'd assume it's an original from the 18th century.

 

[MickD]

This is the common bullion type:

[MickD]

This is an example of a reproduction Swiss Hunting Thaler:

 

[Marko]

15 minutes ago, silenceissilver said:

On holiday and seen a Maria Theresien Taler for 220 Euros in a little numismatic shop. Somehow tempted to buy it but I don't know much about these coins, so I'm worried it might be overpriced. They also have other Talers from somewhere in Germany for e.g. 60. Any advice in what to look out for at this MT Taler?

@silenceissilver if you had further details I could give you an approximation of value, but it is a very varied, and widely produced coin.

Theresia Talers are still available, as re-strikes, from the Austria mint at €26.64 https://www.muenzeoesterreich.at/eng/produkte/maria-theresa-taler-proof, eBay,  and many dealers,  however a genuine 1780 taler could be worth thousands (only 2 specimens known to exist of one version).

The majority of Maria Theresia Talers are dated 1780 (the date of her death) and have been produced at many mints, from Vienna Milan, Paris London and Birmingham to name but a few, from that date until today. They are allegedly still used as currency in some outlying areas of Arabia.

The value of these Talers is dependant on the date it was minted and of course quality. An excellent source of information is available at http://www.theresia.name/en/

Talers dated between 1741 and 1779 are a lot harder to come by, and the variants are reasonably well documented in the book by John S Davenport, “European Crowns 1700-1800”. These can vary in price from €100 - €1500 per coin and are very collectible.

I hope this helps a bit, they are great coins but beware of fakes and overvalued products.

[silenceissilver]

Thanks @MickD and @Marko for your helpful answers. Not staying long enough to go there again twice ( taking a photo, discussing it here, then buying) so I'll go through your information and try to make a decision based on that and my gut feeling

[silenceissilver]

I've bought it, it's a 1776 Madonna Taler, described as "very fine +", with some brown red spots on the reverse. I'll upload a photo on Saturday with a more suitable camera but so far does it sound as if the price of €220 could be right, @Marko ?