What platinum coin to get - or - Noble or no Noble?

[KevinFlynn]

I decided to get some platinum, actually I want to shift my gold budget of 2019 towards platinum to take advantage of the historical low.

So I'm circling the question of what to get, which form and which pieces. I am quite conservative with bullion gold (decision for Krugerrands) and bullion silver (decision for Maples), but when getting more exotic, I tend to get more adventurous.

Now I would never rule out poured bars for the 'treasure' aspect, but there is no poured platinum. A box of 10 gram bars would capture my imagination, to put aside as pure investment bullion to store and never look at. Or coins. I am not inspired by the platinum version of classical coins, Eagles, Krugerrands, Maples or Philharmonics. What captures my eyes are Britannias, Nobles or Queen's Beasts.

I like the Noble most, but I am unsure of it's status and recognition. Are Isle of Man coins generally perceived as being governmental backed or perceived as something of a second rate collector trinket? I realize that the Noble is more on the bullion side of the Isle of Man coins.

I do not mind the different premiums of the coins that I could buy. I am paying 19% VAT ayway, so platinum basically has to explode to get a good deal out of it, but I have time and I am waiting for the correction (I would basically bury platinum at the bottom of my stack and forget about it).

[Bluenitsuj]

I have been looking at platinum recently also. Is it as easy to offload when the time is right as silver and gold is?

[KevinFlynn]

The precious precious metal dealers I buy from will buy the common products. I am using two of the largest german dealers and a very good jeweler and pawnshop chain, depending on the product (and for buying directly and anonymously).

That is of course not too cost or profit efficient, as I am depending on their prices, and have to go against the premium and VAT (if any) that I invested.

As I understand it, selling privately gets better deals - in german communities they are basing prices on the middle of sell and buy prices of the larger companies - if you can find the buyers at the appropriate moment.

I have never traded privately, just sold when in need. If not in need, I would aim to sell at profit only.

[sixgun]

2 hours ago, shortstack68 said:

If you consider putting something away for longer term then why not look at numismatic coins, the right coins can appreciate more than gold or silver. Last year i bought (as an example) a rare Edward IV rose noble of bristol mint, i paid in total (inc fees) €3900 in Nov 2016 and sold it in May 2017 for £5600 without fees, so i got 100% of that total.

Just a thought

Wow - well done there. Do you know much about these coins?

[Martlet]

4 hours ago, shortstack68 said:

If you consider putting something away for longer term then why not look at numismatic coins, the right coins can appreciate more than gold or silver. Last year i bought (as an example) a rare Edward IV rose noble of bristol mint, i paid in total (inc fees) €3900 in Nov 2016 and sold it in May 2017 for £5600 without fees, so i got 100% of that total.

Where's the market for such things, assume its not ebay.

Problem with platinum is the massive premium before you even get to the VAT.  Looking at 40-50%.  That said if i wanted platinum the Noble is a fine looking coin.

[mr1030]

I've bought a couple of ounces of platinum recently in bar form when I saw them on sale at a pretty low premium.  I really like the platinum QB's and Noble's,  but couple of things have put me off from pulling the trigger on any of them.  First, the premiums are pretty high and it just rubs me the wrong way to pay that much for a bullion item.  Second,  I could easily get too emotionally attached to those beautiful coins and balk at selling them.  Especially with platinum where you will probably have a much harder time even finding a buyer, I don't want to hesitate selling it when the right opportunity presents itself.  I can easily sell a 1 oz bar without a thought of regret, and at the same time absorb the spread because of the lower premium at time of purchase.

[KevinFlynn]

The prices my dealer takes are (prices in euro per gram)

1oz Noble 28,96
1oz bar 28,44

The highest premium on

10g bar 30,92

The lowest premium on

1kg bar 27,87

That is a maximum difference of 8%, with the coin to the bar being 2% more expensive. In comparisson, the spread between different 1 oz gold coins is at 1,7% .

I feel like I would buy 1 oz pieces for ease of valuation. I also think I would not need a smaller unit than an ounce, as I would sell in bulk once a favourable point is reached.

[KevinFlynn]

Aren't gold and platinum two different kinds of investments?

Platinum would be a more speculative investment, like silver, a highly manipulated industrial commodity. I am convinced that with platinum we are betting on a correction, and being on a clear low, that bet becomes more attractive. And when we are betting anyway, premium and VAT will only be a footnote.

It is similar with silver, though the actual low is replaced with the relative ratio to gold (gold and silver have a history, platinum is more of a novelty, so I would never compare platinum that way).

On the other hand I do not think about gold as about a bet but as an intrinsic value (I realize platinum and silver have that value to a degree as well).

[trozau]

I like the Perth Mint Australia Platypus platinum coin...

[Uksilverstackers]

Platinum Queens Beasts, should make a nice set.

 

No idea on mintages but I reckon they will be low, when done.

[flim]

does the dealer buy back for QB Pt coins better than ordinary Pt bars ???

any links please

 

[KevinFlynn]

Looking at Queen's Beasts versus one ounce bars, using a pricing database at Gold.de, which lists prices of different online shops by product (you have to click the verkaufen button):

Queen's Beasts Lions are bought at €760,00

Queen's Beasts Griffins are bought at €760,00

Queen's Beasts Unicorns are bought at €686,00

One ounce bars are bought at €710,00

(prices as of 26 December 2018)

So, I'd say it depends on collector's premium.

[flim]

vat on top of the premium,

my area, the dealer pay more for bar than coin 😁

[KevinFlynn]

VAT is what limits the liquidity of platinum.

It is a unique experience for me, as both gold as well as silver coins are VAT free over here (silver with a trick). Or not so unique as silver bars again fall under VAT.

My silver bars made me loose money (theoretically) the moment I bought them, and it will take a miracle to regain this via spot. Though with silver I can see a higher liquidity on the private market, to mitigate VAT on smaller pieces (coins). I'm not so sure about that with platinum.

That way I would only buy platinum at a moment like this and only if I could afford an investment horizon of 10+ years.

[KevinFlynn]

Noble or no Noble? had been answered as - Noble - for me.

Now I had a financial windfall and decided to get a second one.

Interestingly I ordered random dates, from two different dealers, and got a second 1983

I admit that while I do like the 1968 portrait, I would have really wanted a 1985 portrait of her Majesty - a portrait which I find stunningly attractive (am I in love?).

 

I really like the coin, the reverse is great, the name is so fitting. But I think I will declare my platinum stack finished for now, the VAT hit is just too brutal. Same goes for silver, which is nearly impossible to get without full VAT over here now. Time for gold for a year or two.

(Catch me with the next silver collectible series in hand...)

 

Edited September 10, 2021 by KevinFlynn

[KevinFlynn]

25 minutes ago, CollectorNo1 said:

Well I'm sure you know your platinum...I've never bought,owned any platinum spot atm is $956. But!!! Looking at a 1oz Platinum noble ship coin I know is genuine..the comparison, details and condition against the ones you have shown against the photo I've attached looks alot different in quality...tell me your thoughts.....

 

@CollectorNo1

Not wanting to derail the other thread.

Thanks for your interest. I am not a Platinum expert, I just read some things up.

I made more hi res photos, as I think the details get lost in the other photos

My three criteria for trusting a coin are:

Dealers, which have a good reputation in these cases

Weight, which is well within limits

Size, which is accurate (my electronic measurement tool is out of battery right now, but the thickness is accurate as well)

 

[KevinFlynn]

I went over some details under magnification because your scan has some deviations from my photos,

like the "celtic knot" detail, matching in a close up

I couldn't find a difference that would convince me these were not genuine.

 

Edited September 10, 2021 by KevinFlynn

[CollectorNo1]

13 minutes ago, KevinFlynn said:

@CollectorNo1

Not wanting to derail the other thread.

Thanks for your interest. I am not a Platinum expert, I just read some things up.

I made more hi res photos, as I think the details get lost in the other photos

My three criteria for trusting a coin are:

Dealers, which have a good reputation in these cases

Weight, which is well within limits

Size, which is accurate (my electronic measurement tool is out of battery right now, but the thickness is accurate as well)

 

So different when you have a clearer photo....they look so different now and I hope you didn't think I was querying your knowledge....the first photos with respect didn't look right..its very hard to take a detailed photo unless you have a high end camera. Your new photos look so much clearer and more detailed....they look great...I'm a big hater of fake coins,the despicable A***holes that flood the market with copies,fakes and passing them off as genuine..its my 'Bugbear' and I absolutely hate honest collectors being ripped off. As I said I'm not a Platinum expert but the photos you posted compared to the genuine noble coin did look very different..now I can see that your coins look 100% genuine.

Your friend and regards.

Very nice chatting..David 

[KevinFlynn]

5 minutes ago, CollectorNo1 said:

...

No offense taken, David. I think it's good we challenge things and ourselves regularly, especially in a hobby like this.

We now have photos, discussion and analysis of Nobles that will help others as well.

[CollectorNo1]

1 minute ago, KevinFlynn said:

No offense taken, David. I think it's good we challenge things and ourselves regularly, especially in a hobby like this.

We now have photos, discussion and analysis of Nobles that will help others as well.

Yes I agree 100% we all love what we love I.e collecting what we find appealing ..and learning and obtaining knowledge from each other..that's why we are here on TSF...to learn and give advice and our own opinions ...been great chatting and hope we Converse again.

With regards

David....👍👍👍👍