Plan A - Opinions welcome

[BaldyBob]

Hello All

 

I had always thought I would be buying gold, due to the VAT situation in the UK.

However, a bit of research led me to this site and some German sites which makes silver buying more palatable. There is no way I would pay UK VAT rates  on any sort of investment.

 

Certainly on one site I can buy a Kilo's worth of  the cheapest 1oz coins for less than a Kilo bar bought in the UK. That makes sense right?

I am not worried about designs/proofs etc, I just want the best available price per oz.

 

I was thinking of a silver/gold ratio of 25/1 in terms of weight. Gold would be sourced in the UK, and I imagined the best price option would be to acquire 1 oz Britannia's, although Sovereigns seem to be very popular on here.

On current values that is about 70% gold, so do I need to be looking at a 50/50 split value wise?

 

As a bit of background, I am not moving to PM's because I expect prices to rocket overnight, but as a safe haven while I have no confidence in the financial sector and paper currencies.

It goes without saying that I am of the opinion that the less the Government knows about any individuals private affairs, the better.

 

I would be interested to hear you thoughts.

 

Cheers

BB

[crazy hippo]

yep thats right, you can pick up a kilo lunar horse in the region of £450 a 1kg bar from hatton garden is about 500, atkinsons have a couple of kilo bars at 469 right now.

 

but for 20 less i know i would rather have a kilo coin, 1 its prettier to look at, 2, in time it may accumulate a collectors value that will gain it over spot, which can then be sold for new silver.

[Paul]

fulls sovereigns are exceptionally liquid if you needed out of precious metals. just as easy to cash in x1 as it is x100 at a time

 

they also dont cost heaven and earth to buy

more easier to part with £186 for a full sovereign, than shelling out £785 for a full 1oz coin. as when i have a enough for 1oz or 2oz of gold i think i could get LOTS more silver for the money

 

your plan seems a good one in my opinion, not too many eggs in one basket

i am not sure if you have mega bucks to invest but if it is £50k+ i would advise a some in allocated bullion via the likes of bullionvault or goldmoney

as they are lower margins than 'in your hand physical' also not vat or worries of storing 2500+ oz around the house

[ukstack]

Totally agree with your view on vat well i think vat is a must but its on everything and anything mind can only boggle 

 

Personally its a good plan 

 

i myself have a target of 800-1000oz of silver and gold ill only pic up when i think its a good deal so this may not be massive amount or it could be huge just dunno 

 

once i hit this target i can then kinda look at other things a bit more like stocks shares ect the PM is more of a 20-30 year plan so hopefully it will at least double in this time :] silver more so than gold 

[garthy]

Certainly on one site I can buy a Kilo's worth of  the cheapest 1oz coins for less than a Kilo bar bought in the UK. That makes sense right?

I am not worried about designs/proofs etc, I just want the best available price per oz.

 

 

 

Yeah buying a kilos worth of one 1oz coins over 1 kilo bar or coin makes perfect sense, though it pains me we have to think about selling our PM's in the future and a 1 kilo chunk of silver may be harder to sell that 1oz coins especially if the price takes off, saying that I do fancy picking up a nice big bar or coin in the future for the right price. 

[Danny-boy]

So Bob, what's Plan B?

[garthy]

So Bob, what's Plan B?

 

Bobs plan B's the same as all of ours, forget plan A and buy what makes you happy   

[BaldyBob]

Thanks for the input Gents.

 

Paul, I will read up on bullionvault, buy I obviously did not sufficiently convey my levels of paranoia. If I can't touch it...how do I know it exists!!

Seriously though, I doubt I would put in that much.

If every customer asked for their PM back on the same day from the storage facility, do you think they would get it? I am ever the sceptic.

 

Danny, Plan B is currently to blow it all in lap dancing bars and maybe buy a rhinestone encrusted Elvis suit. Admittedly, this plan needs some refining.

[Danny-boy]

Danny, Plan B is currently to blow it all in lap dancing bars and maybe buy a rhinestone encrusted Elvis suit. Admittedly, this plan needs some refining.

Sounds refined enough to me buddy.

Let's call it plan A2.

[Paul]

Bob, i have been stacking since mid 2010, i was in the same line of thinking as you totally back then.  

Bullionvault and goldmoney came out as the best options in my research.

I have used each firm several times and there are many many good feedbacks on each company.

 

As we see from bank bail ins and the cyprus confiscation of clients funds, i would say bullionvault and goldmoney your money is actually more safe with them than lloyds, RBS, HSBC, natwest or any high street banks.

 

Remember the very same bank confiscation legislation is currently going through our own house of commons and is being written into law in many other countires around the world

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/bail-in-powers-implementation-including-draft-secondary-legislation/bail-in-powers-implementation

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-09-26/cyprus-style-wealth-confiscation-starting-all-over-world

 

Once that cash is in your UK bank account you are nothing but a unsecured creditor to that bank and they have no legal right to return what you believe & trust is on deposit as yours. The only cash you should have in the bank is an overdraft

 

I also would not go 100% with bullionvault or goldmoney, as who knows what may happen to them. Anything is possible.  

Whilst is may be a worry to trust a firm like that, the worst can still happen with holding all your PMs in your hand/home.  Burgulary, fire, wife runs away with it, the old paint cans in the shed you have them stored in are thrown out by sons helping spring cleaning the shed !

 

 

But out of your basket of 10 eggs (your full personal wealth)

you have: 

• x1 egg with bullion vault,
• x1 egg with goldmoney,
• x1 eggs worth in gold bullion,
• x1 eggs worth as silver bullion,
• x1 eggs worth of platinum,
• x1 eggs worth of emergency liquid cash,
• x1 eggs worth in art/wine/whiskey/collectables/rarites,
• x1 eggs worth of your tax free ISA allowance,
• x2 eggs worth of cash to buy any more of the other x7  above eggs should a good deal come your way

 

should the worst happens one of your eggs cracks is is totally broken, it is not game over.

 

hope this helps 

[Shamatti]

Sounds like a good plan to me. The additional thing to remember about Sovereigns is, I think, that they are capitol gains tax exempt if you end up with hundreds to sell. But as you say - you may keep your affairs private any way!

 

I have been stacking for a few years, and have changed my mind between stacking and collection a few times along the way. It is hard once you start seeing everyone's lovely collections on the board not to be tempted to pick up a few of the nicer coins as you go! lol

 

I have a few sovs, and some gold coins, I like both. Should grab some more soon! lol

[BaldyBob]

Excellent post Paul, thanks for taking the time to type all that.

Fully agree with your opinion regarding the banks and having as many 'eggs' as possible.

I have not considered platinum, and have neglected a NISA simply because I am unsure if they will be safe from any bail-ins?

 

Will continue to research the two sites, but also feel that the stock market may be worth going back to after a correction. Seems a bit inflated  at present.

 

Shamatti, I have some other collectables, so hopefully I can keep the PM purely about value....... but who can deny the inner magpie!

[craig12]

i know i shouldnt add this to this thread , but dont want to start another , i am now starting to look at things i like rather than the spot price , theres a bar ive been looking at on the gold bullion co  5oz scottsdale , now i know i can get a sunshine minting bar much cheaper , but god its a lot nicer ,  why should it matter that its got a lion on the bar , but im so drawn to 5 oz bars  i think the sunshine one is £85 and the scottsdale £98  bbut god it  looks stunning  so im now changing and buying what i like , i dont collect coins or date runs , but i would like to branch out into a item but a better brand  ie   scottsdale  rather than sunshine minting  .. hey its our money we can do with it as we like

and if it does go to da moon  it only cost me a bit more

[Ares]

Kind of OT, but I thought you'd thrown in the towel on PMs Craig? What spurred the flip back?

[craig12]

well im still going to look at dips , but i have my carpet business which gives me my wage and savings, i still cant work out if the shtf will happen , im already in to the tune of around £900-£950 as a rough guide  hey i look at it now as , i always have spare cash after bills are paid sometimes i have a few hundred sat their,  so im going to buy keenly , but as discussed i like some items better than others 

still looking at sub £16 oz  to buy all in delivered, silver if i can get it / and gold at £720 ish 

i wish they wouldnt put all these products to tempt us 

the gold bullion co have a 10 oz scottsdale stacker  a bit too much money as their mark up is more and then they have a another drool item 

a scottsdale reserve 10 oz bar , now i have seen one on you tube , but when you look on gold bullion co the background of the reserve bar looks to be black , im sure its not,    

im thinking more and more , buy what you want craig  so you paid more than xyz item  but hey i like this item better

[Cornishfarmer]

I look at my shack yesterday. Worked out that my current 5 oz of gold wouldn't pay for a month in my grandads care home

Brings it into perspective really

[craig12]

i suppose  you could call the gold bullion company , an example on premium vs none premium  (although its generic) why should a scottsdale 10 oz reserve bar be £189  and a sunshine mint £165 same amount of silver  hughhhh

[HighlandTiger]

I look at my shack yesterday. Worked out that my current 5 oz of gold wouldn't pay for a month in my grandads care home

Brings it into perspective really

Sadly it shows how much PM's we have to stack to ensure a decent quality of life when we get older. I don't think I'll be able to stack enough really in the time I have left before I'm 65. So I am relying on my kids not to stick me in a council care home and hope they love me enough to put me somewhere with a big TV and really hot female nurses. 

 

Although I do tell my old Dad, that because my Mum and him are always jetting off round the world on holidays spending my inheritance, (they are 72 and 70 and were off to Vietnam yesterday), I'll be sticking them in a shed at the bottom of the garden when it comes to their turn   

[BaldyBob]

With regards to 'rounds' etc. from non Government mints.... what is the general consensus?

 

I have to admit I am wary of them, even though it is all the same stuff.

 I would prefer from a countries official mint....... even though I may have no faith in the same countries paper currency

[craig12]

good point bob , im confused about these , the way i see it is based on a shtf scenario ,  you can get more silver sometimes for your £ but (and im talking of not re selling on e bay)   everyone seems to say that in the event silver was used in a shtf scenario , then rounds may not be accepted   , where as goverment minted coins will be .im not convinced that would be the case , silver is silver , me personally dont buy to resell on e bay ,  i see the benefit of collector coins, date runs   collector to colleector    but yes i have always wondered if 10 sunshine minting rounds vs 10 maples   would one be unspendable 

[Kman]

the way i see it is based on a shtf scenario 

 

No one is going to be using silver in a SHTF scenario, trade will be done in fear/violence.

[StackemHigh]

I am interested in all types of silver. Private mints make proofs and BU for other countries. A German mint make Arks and Perth made Fiji coins etc.

 

I would say don't limit yourself in any way. Just buy what you want, when you want.

[silversword]

I would say don't limit yourself in any way. Just buy what you want, when you want.

 

Been thinking about this, and I have concluded that if stacking for re-sale then actually, buy what you don't want, because then you won't be sad to see it go when it's time to sell. Buy what you like if you intend to keep it, buy what will sell easily (and won't break your heart to part with) for investing.

[SilverPirate]

If silver goes para-bollock it will be easy to of load, even a sale under spot would not matter  as long as it is above your average per ounce.A SHTF scenario i think silver would be a long term barter item i think it would be necessity's first as a barter item and pleasure items such as alcohol and cigarettes. I think silver is way down the line.

My bucket of cray fish for your bic razor.

[StackemHigh]

Been thinking about this, and I have concluded that if stacking for re-sale then actually, buy what you don't want, because then you won't be sad to see it go when it's time to sell. Buy what you like if you intend to keep it, buy what will sell easily (and won't break your heart to part with) for investing.

Then you will be buying what you want, So you can keep what you really, really want!