Silver to go - question?

[Oroargento]

Hi all,

 

I'm new to this forum and just wanted to say it has made excellent reading and good to hear how fellow UK silver investors both view silver and how they invest. After previously using CoinInvest I had heard about Silver to go but was always dubious as to how they avoid VAT for UK purchases/deliveries.

 

After reading this forum it gave me confidence to make a purchase, 66oz purchased just now on this drop to $19. Got a good mixture of designs, countries and am really happy that the average price per oz works out around £15.

 

I cannot seem to find from the forum though how exactly Silver to go manage to avoid VAT - can someone explain this to me?

 

Happy stacking folks looking forward to reading more..

 

Oroargento

[HelpingHands]

The margin scheme in Europe is different for precious metal coins than it is in the UK.

In the UK VAT is paid on the full sales value.

In Europe VAT is only paid on the profit the company makes on the coin. So if they buy for £12 and sell for £13 then only £1 would have VAT requirements.

Something like that anyway.

[Oroargento]

Thanks Helping Hands. I'm just trying to understand if I buy through Coininvest I pay VAT (delivered to my door). If I buy through Silver to go then I don't. How do they do this? (i'm not complaining if I don't pay VAT of course just trying to understand why/how..)

[HelpingHands]

I'll guess at that because I don't know but:

I suspect coininvest don't include the VAT in their prices and then charge the rate for the buyers country.

[garthy]

You may have noticed that all STG silver are government bullion with a face value, no rounds or bars, there may be a loop hole here by setting themselves up as a currency exchange rather that a precious metals company, I've not looked into it but this may be a way they get round the vat.

[Pete]

Perhaps STG buys from CoinInvest  ?

 

Here is something to discuss - I don't know if it is flawed and I am not an accountant so maybe total rubbish ??

 

Company 'A' pays the Mint $10 plus19% VAT

It has a cost of $10 with input tax of $1.90

It sells to it's subsidiary Company 'B' at $10.50 plus 19% VAT so $2 output tax.

Company (A) therefore shows a profit of $0.50 and pays $0.10 net tax so has a net profit of $0.40 only.

 

Company 'B' buys the coin at $10.50 with an input tax of $2.00

If it sells at $12 with differential VAT it charges 19% on the difference between $12 and $10.50 so 19% of $1.50 = $0.30

Price to customer ( almost VAT free ) is $12.30

Output tax = $0.30

Input tax = $2.00

Tax claimed as refund $1.70

Profit $3.20

 

If 'A' and 'B' merge their accounts the profit on a $10 coin will be $0.40 + $3.20 = $3.60

The VAT paid to the government will be $0.10 + ( -$1.70 ) = -$1.60

i.e. a rebate

 

Obviously the government wants to collect taxes, so keep 'B' small to 'A' and it gets lost as 'A' is primarily selling at a higher price with full 19% VAT.

 

Would this work ?

[JB3]

I don't think so, because I don't think that's how VAT is handled.

I'm not VAT-registered, so no personal experience of charging for or claiming back VAT, but I don't think you can claim back more VAT than you paid, and definitely not if you are making a profit (and, therefore, adding value to the product).

[STG]

Hi guys, lots of speculations going on here

 

Our official answer to these questions can be found in the FAQ of STG, please check out yourself as I can not copy-paste in here.

 

CoinInvest and STG belong to the same investor and are operated by the same managing directors, Daniel and Stephan, you might have been in contact with them as well.

As CoinInvest and STG operate in two totally different tax models, they are deliberately set up as two different companies to avoid any accounting mess. STG doesn't buy from CoinInvest, both companies have their own stock which is refilled separately, as well as different bank accounts and so on!

The reason why STG doesn't stock all sorts of silver is, that the margin scheme tax model is limited to certain coins, no bars, nothing heavier than 10oz etc. All the rest has to be taxed with VAT and is therefore sold through CoinInvest only.

 

I hope I could bring some clarity into the discussion. Please appreciate, that I can not publicize our business model in detail - competition never sleeps

 

Regards,

Livia

[John]

Hi all

I have done a little research into this. I am considering buying from Silver-To-Go and wanted to check them out.

As I understand it, STG buy dircetly from the mints and import to Germany, they are based in Frankfurt. Import duty is 7%, this includes any purchase tax on the silver. the silver can then be sold tax paid within the EU.

[Pete]

Hi all

I have done a little research into this. I am considering buying from Silver-To-Go and wanted to check them out.

As I understand it, STG buy dircetly from the mints and import to Germany, they are based in Frankfurt. Import duty is 7%, this includes any purchase tax on the silver. the silver can then be sold tax paid within the EU.

Hi John,

To save you a lot of time and further questions -

The prices shown on the STG website are what you pay inclusive of taxes.

The only additional charge is shipping so place items in your basket and enter your postcode and you will get a total.

You can do this prior to finalising a purchase.

[HighlandTiger]

Hi Livia,

 

this is more of a request aimed at your sister company Coinvest, but I would also apply to the STG website as well. The drop down search menu, currently has, lowest price, highest prices, lowest weight, highest weight, etc . Would it be possible to add another search method of "best price per gram" on the gold coins. Other bullion websites such as The Gold Bullion Co, http://www.thegoldbullion.co.uk/buy-gold-coins, have this facility, and it would be great if Coininvest did as well.

 

There are many gold coins, but due to size of coin and differing purity around Europe it is hard to tell which are your cheapest coins, and for gold stackers like me we like to know the cheapest gold.

 

Thanks

[Lindeman]

While we are on the topic of STG - anyone know ( or Livia can comment) if they ever had / will have the UK. Lunar 1 oz silver series ( 2014 horse, 2015 goat)? I am looking for a decent price , but not really seen one from the UK sellers.

[Carpe Diem]

While we are on the topic of STG - anyone know ( or Livia can comment) if they ever had / will have the UK. Lunar 1 oz silver series ( 2014 horse, 2015 goat)? I am looking for a decent price , but not really seen one from the UK sellers.

 

They had the 1oz UK Lunar Horse recently but sold out after about a week.  Not sure how many they had in though.  I heard that they are trying to get the goat in, their sister company has it here for £13.33 each 

[Lindeman]

Thanks CD! Interesting, I will keep looking. What I don't understand is how the 2015 sheep has a lower mintage of the 2014 horse, and is still cheaper to buy....at least at CoinInvest. Actually ...same price on the 2015 sheep @ Goldline, if you buy 20x.

[Shamatti]

STG have their own questions thread here: http://thesilverforum.com/topic/866-questions/

 

Lets not go too far off topic here guys!

[HelpingHands]

Ellies at STG!

https://www.silver-to-go.com/en/silver-coins/somalia-elephant/somalia-elephant-african-wildlife-100-shilling-1oz-silver-2014_2/

[Dieselbhoy]

decided to get something off these guy, sorry if previously covered but the VAT thing is that as standard i.e i dont need to do anything or do you need to put a promotional code in to say you are a member from here

 

and also is there a limit to the VAT thing such as you need to buy a certain amount or you can only buy a certain amount

[Paul]

from silver to go FAQs

 

"Our company EPM Trading GmbH guarantees the correct clearance (taxation) of the coins when they are purchased or acquired. 

If your residence or delivery address is within the European Union, you receive fully taxed goods. 

The goods are delivered to your doorstep, so you don't have to pay any taxes. The price that we display on our website, is the final purchase price. Only the shipping costs are added to it. Due to the German tax legislation, no tax (VAT) is indicated on your invoice (cf.. § 25a UStG).

 

We've even set up a UK based bank account for UK customers."

[Paul]

i have used them personally and it is like no different from using a UK based bullion dealer.

• Shipping is super quick with reputable courier UPS, usual delivery time is has been just 3-4 days for me
• UK based bank account for payment so no nasty exchange rates or euros transfers
• Detailed and accurate invoicing 
• Plain, strong and secure packaging
• and NO nasty government pocket lining 20% VAT charges !!!

 

Whats not to like !! ?

[daz]

decided to get something off these guy, sorry if previously covered but the VAT thing is that as standard i.e i dont need to do anything or do you need to put a promotional code in to say you are a member from here

 

and also is there a limit to the VAT thing such as you need to buy a certain amount or you can only buy a certain amount

th price you see is the price you pay - no added extras , no vat and no import charges and no minimum spend

[Dieselbhoy]

th price you see is the price you pay - no added extras , no vat and no import charges and no minimum spend

cheers m8 wasnt sure if it was a special deal via here that got the vat thing removed

[HelpingHands]

Just noticed you can get a 10kg from STG.

https://www.silver-to-go.com/en/silver-coins/lunar-series-2/lunar-snake-10kg-silver-2013/

Someone get it for a laugh.

[MickB]

Just noticed you can get a 10kg from STG.

https://www.silver-to-go.com/en/silver-coins/lunar-series-2/lunar-snake-10kg-silver-2013/

Someone get it for a laugh.

If I win the euro millions tonight I'll buy one and use it as a doorstop:-)

[Melon]

What!? There's a VAT free silver source?!

 

I knew I joined this forum for a reason!!!!

[Pete]

What!? There's a VAT free silver source?!

 

I knew I joined this forum for a reason!!!!

 

Not VAT free but some German suppliers are working a loophole in VAT so offering almost VAT free on some coins.

STG comes highly recommended and has a UK bank so you save on foreign transfer costs as well.

Welcome to the forum - it gets addictive so watch out !